Replies

1. 
   joinerswork | Aug 18, 2004 03:27pm | #1

   Dennis,

   Congrats on your chisel.  I have a similar socket chisel that was my great-grandad's.  It is not marked with a maker's name, hand forged with a thin slip of steel laminated to the edge on the face side.  It still has its whittled (hewn almost) handle, with an iron hoop on the end to keep it from splitting.  Heavy duty, for he was a millwright.  I've seen a mill in northern Frederick Co, VA with the family name on the cornerstone.

   D.R. Barton in a respected maker in these parts, I've got a Barton carving chisel that I like real well.

   I can't explain why the back of your chisel is crowned.  Sometimes it'd be nice if tools could talk...sometimes!

   Regards,

   Ray

2. 
   Ardito | Aug 18, 2004 04:39pm | #2

   Dennis,

   A quick Google search gave me this...

   David R. Barton Tool Co.: 1874 - 1880.
   Augers, axes, bits, cooper's tools, edge tools and wooden planes.
   Marks: D.R. BARTON / 1832 / ROCHESTER N.Y. (in an oval shape with top and bottom lines curved).
   D. R. BARTON TOOL CO.
   David R. Barton and his sons, Charles and Edward, formed this company after D. R. Barton & Co. was taken over by the Macks.  It was also bought out in 1880 by Mack & Co. who again continued to use the marks.  So the mark D.R. BARTON / 1832 / ROCHESTER N.Y. was used by D. R. Barton & Co., D. R. Barton Tool Co. and Mack & Co.

1. 
   DennisS | Aug 18, 2004 05:47pm | #3

   Dark -

   Thanks for the info .... I never seem to remember to do the Google thing myself.

   You hit the nail with the oval stamp - exactly what it looks like. Wonder what the significance is of "1832" since it predates the formation of the company (1874).

   After working through a couple of gnarly knots in one of the timbers the edge was still pretty keen. While not HSS, it appears to be made of pretty good material.

   Thanks again.

   ...........

   From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.

   Dennis

1. 
   joinerswork | Aug 19, 2004 03:56pm | #4

   Dennis,

   Could be 1882, lots of times the stamps were uneven, and use/cleaning wears them even more and makes them hard to read.  Whatever it is, you have a good quality tool. Enjoy!

   Cheers,

   Ray

1. 
   DennisS | Aug 19, 2004 06:43pm | #5

   Thanks for the input, Ray. I'll take a closer look at the stamp today. The ol' eye's ain't what they used to be, either!

   Glad to hear that grampa had the vision to buy something this cool. Regardless, as I mentioned, I enjoy just holding it in my hand and conjuring up visions of him on the jobsite back in Nebraska farm country working on someone's homestead place.

   I've got a couple of his old planes as well. One is a wooden sole/metal frog Stanley or Miller Falls, don't recall 'coz the other metal plane is one of the other as well. Only indication of mfr for the wooden sole plane is what's stamped on the iron. I've tuned them both up and have used the 'transition' plane, the one with the wooden sole. The back end is worn such that the bottom is no longer perfectly flat but it works pretty well nonetheless. I don't think I want to try flattening the bottom since at this point my expertise in doing such things might make the situation worse. That particular tool isn't really a user, more one to have on the office shelf for display.

   I'm still curious, however about the back of the framing chisel. As I mentioned, the crown is so pronounced that it appears intentional. Do large rough framing chisels like this normally have a sightly curved edge that result from the back being crowned in this way? It would take a significant amount of grinding and material removal to make the back perfectly flat.

   Surprizingly, the back of this tool shows less in the way of machine marks than the brand new set I bought recently............

   From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.

   Dennis

1. 
   AlanTurner | Aug 19, 2004 09:58pm | #6

   I will offer a guess. The old guys always used oilstones, and they became dished, but were still used. As the back was honed, it took on the curve of the dished out center of the stone. Hence, the crown. As a gift (largen than I anticipated), I fully sharpened a beautiful set of Greenlee chisels for a friend, 8 matched, and each was crowned. I got them flat, finally, but had to go to the edge sander for the intial work, running a ZA belt. Not pretty, but faster than a diamond stone.Alan

   http://www.alanturnerfurnituremaker.com

2. 
   joinerswork | Aug 20, 2004 12:43am | #7

   alan,

   I think your guess is a pretty good one.  In going thru my Dad's things after he passed away, we found HIS father's straight razor, and a whetstone.  The stone was dished to about 1/2 its thickness in the center, to the point where it is hard to imsgine its being used for anything.

   I've got some old whetrocks from various sources (sales, antique shops), and they all display a lack of attention to keeping them anywhere near flat.  Guess them old timers had better things to do...

   Regards,

   Ray

3. 
   DennisS | Aug 20, 2004 09:02am | #9

   Alan ...

   I'd buy that hypothisis save for the fact that the back of this tool is crowned almost if not all the way from the edge to where the socket starts. If I lay my SS rule across the back there's easily 1/64"+ of light on either side at the edge of the blade all the way up.

   I'm guessing that, if the Barton tools were of the quality that's been described this was, in effect, to allow a slightly crowned edge for doing heavy framing type work. Not unlike an ever so slight curve to a smoothing plane?? Just guessing.

   I do know that I won't spend any more time trying to flatten the back of the thing. I've already removed too much carma from it as it is. (grin)

   Thanks for the input, though.

   ...........

   From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.

   Dennis

3. 
   Steinmetz | Aug 20, 2004 02:15am | #8

   Dennis, Are you sure that framing chisel is not a 'SLICK' with a shorter handle?

   Slicks were used by post and beam barn constructors to square up pre bored  notches and mortises and tenons (By hand) 

   They had long knob ended handles and were worked in a slicing/shearing motion using both hands. NO HAMMERS NO PIPE NIPPLES on the handle.

   Some of those beautiful chisels had a crowned upper face, but the bottom face was flat.

   I'm guessing ,somewhere in the life of the tool,

   it was sharpened  'Bass Ackwards', producing the bevel on the wrong face.

   Google up Slicks or barn building etc etc. 

    Eric Sloane's ' Museum of Early American tools' is a great book to learn about this stuff.

    Steinmetz.

   
   

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   Edited 8/19/2004 7:23 pm ET by steinmetz

   
   

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   Edited 8/19/2004 7:26 pm ET by steinmetz

1. 
   DennisS | Aug 20, 2004 09:08am | #10

   Steinmetz ....

   No, I don't think it's a slick. I saw one a while back in a boat builder's tool box .... much heavier than this thing. The boat builder guy said he loved it for working up in the bow of boats where it was impossible to get a hand plane. The shear mass of those things allowed paring off super fine shavings.

   This one has a much smaller (shorter) blade. I'll measure it tomorrow and perhaps post a picture just for kix.

   As I noted in the original post about this tool,..... Grampa wasn't much of a skilled craftsman and I wouldn't have expected that he would have spent a lot of time fussing with his tools - tuning and the like. I like it the way it is. That's the way he used it so .....

   Thanks for the interest and the conversation none the less.

   ...........

   From Beautiful Skagit Co. Wa.

   Dennis