Update 12/3: I edited the title of this post. Sounds like the swap won’t happen until next week.
Hi Folks,
No forum swap today… I’ll let you know when I get a more concrete date.
Thanks for your continued patience.
Gina
FineWoodworking.com
Edited 12/3/2009 5:45 pm ET by GEide
Replies
No problem. I think it is all spiffing anyway-always have done, even with folk who must complain about an extra click or two (;)
I look forward to it being even better.
Today's Thursday and I can confirm that there won't be a forum swap today either.
The Threads magazine forum migrated last night. There are a couple of kinks to be ironed out but the basic functionality seems to be there if you want to take a look: http://forums.threadsmagazine.com/
You won't need to login at all to browse.
That's the news for now...
-Gina, FineWoodworking.com
Looks nice and loads quick. The lower contrast caused by the colored background makes the text harder to read for these old eyes though.
Looking forward to the switch.
................................................
Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.~ Denis Diderot
Thanks for the feedback. When we get our forum, let us know what you think of the colors there and maybe that can be updated.
-Gina
The new site looks pretty good although a bit more contrast would be nice. I'm at the age where it's obvious that they aren't making as much light as they used to - and colors are less distinct. Probably due to government budget cuts. - lol
Good call. I sent a note to our group here to mention the color problems.
Things are so crazy right now I doubt they can do anything about it before our site launches... but let's see what it looks like and then we can go from there sharing more concrete requests for improvement.
Thanks, Gina
No problem. Back in the day, I was involved in a few major software changeovers in nuclear power plants and have an idea of what you're going thru.I'm betting even money that you'll have far worse problems at switchover than color choices. Always remember the first corollary to Murphy's Law.........."Murphy was an optimist" - lol
:)
Thank goodness this change over is not tied to nuclear power, online banking, medical records, or things like that.
Nuclear power plants weren't all THAT difficult, but don't get me started on Online Banking!! I'm beginning the agony of yearly tax preparation and - once again - would gladly put out a contract on B of A. - lol
Gina, looks very nice. Like the way photos pop up to view. The red color is difficult to read for any color blind person though, even us old guys like Dgreen and me.... Hope ours will be black and white myself.
In looking at how the photos work, as a pop up now. I wonder how the post that Samson made of a door frame will work. His cronological description of the door frame gave descriptions of the work, followed by a photo of his description. It was easy to print and drag into my shop and follow along. I wonder if the new pop ups will work that way or not? Would be shame to loose this feature...
Thanks Morgan <!----><!----><!---->
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-------(*)/ (*) http://www.EarthArtLandscape.com
RE: Colors... I can't remember what colors we will have on our site. Let's see what it looks like and then we can updatate as needed. Good point... shouldn't have colors that go against usability standards.
RE: Photo feature: I thought the photo feature was pretty cool when I got to try it out on a beta site a little bit ago. Glad you like it.
Let's see what the Samson post looks like in the new system and go from there. Do you know the post number for that? We should be able to easily search for it in the new system using that "seach for an archived" message feature.
If its an evergreen post (which I know it is) we can put add it to our Woodworking Life blog. That's something that KiddervilleAcres and Derek Cohen have done with their posts... the formatting would look like this recent Tom Fidgen post: https://www.finewoodworking.com/item/21629/a-dedicated-sharpening-bench-part-2-a-workbench-surface
Drupal, the new forum platform, also offers new formatting options... and I believe that you can embed photos in the text of a post too... Here are some rough formatting tips: http://forums.finegardening.com/filter/tips
We should definitely start a discussion on the new platform where we can all share tips and tricks.
Gardening started a list of FAQs here: http://forums.finegardening.com/faq
They'll soon add one on how to make a post and how to comment on a post. These will of course be expanded as we all get to test the system out more.
Anyway, thanks for the feedback and thanks for everyone's patience going through this change.
Gina, FineWoodworking.com
Edited 12/3/2009 9:15 am ET by GEide
The new forum is hard to read, a color change will probably be needed. Maybe Knots will be wood colored!! I like that the large banner size will no longer be a problem.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans.
When your ship comes in... make sure you are not at the airport.
Yes, I see what you mean about the colors. Some of the headings on the Threads/Gatherings site are red: http://forums.threadsmagazine.com/
They're green on the new gardening forum: http://forums.finegardening.com/forum
But when you get to the actual discussions I think it is black on white.
Just peeked at the FW mock ups and it looks like our color is blue.
But, I'll forward this feedback on... good point. -Gina
I checked out Fine Gardening and it is also hard to read. IMHO the text needs to be black and not dark gray.
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Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans.
When your ship comes in... make sure you are not at the airport.
It's a rather big disappointment for me that it won't be possible to reply to a specific post -- only to a thread.Last week I started a thread here in Knots about mitered door frames. In that thread, one of the responders had some good ideas, and a photo of his work. At that time, I thanked him and complemented him.But last night, a question regarding those work methods occurred to me. Using the existing ("old") software, I was able to post a message TO that individual. And I'm confident that the software will send him whatever notification he has chosen.It's sort of like software that gently pokes you in the shoulder, saying "excuse me, but someone is asking a question of you, over at Knots".Since that will be lost, the only hope is that by starting a new thread, someone might know the answer. But think of this specific case -- I was asking about his specific methods, not trying to generate a wide ranging discussion.Oh well, I guess that's progress?
I won't be laughing at the lies when I'm gone,
And I can't question how or when or why when I'm gone;
I can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone,
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here. (Phil Ochs)
Interesting question. I'm not sure if that's how it will work.
If you look at the time stamps in this post: http://forums.finegardening.com/over-fence/general-discussion/anybody-out-there
You'll notice that the oldest ones don't necessarily show up at the bottom. For instance, I responded to specific comment and my response showed up directly under the comment I was responding to...
Anyway, let's see how it works on our platform and then we can go from there...lobbying for a change if need be.
Excellent point. I'm usually an advocate for change, but so far, I'm not looking forwards to the change.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
You will probably be able to email him but then the rest of us will miss out.
>>"You will probably be able to email him but then the rest of us will miss out.">>And as far as I'm concerned, that represents a fundamental difference in the way this forum works, versus all those other ones that I could have been frequenting for the past 7 or 8 years.Once this one is the same as the rest, the 'FINE' will be gone from the Fine Woodworking forum.
I won't be laughing at the lies when I'm gone,
And I can't question how or when or why when I'm gone;
I can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone,
So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here. (Phil Ochs)
I have hopes that after we get used to it and they cater to our needs that it will work out just fine.
Gina ,
Funny , Your post sort of reminded me of a typical old days Soviet Union Russian news report , they usually went something like this : " today nothing happened , there was no news in Russia today "
regards and, thanks for keeping us updated
dusty , maker of designer kindling
News media is certainly not like that these days huh? Even if there's nothing to report... better find something to fill time.
Anyway, we're having some trouble predicting what day FW forums will switch over so yes, seems easiest to share the discrete bits of info that I do know. :)
-Gina
Gina - NBD.
In my deep, dark past, I was sentenced to being CIO for a Fortune 1000 manufacturing company - 3 to 5, with no chance of parole- coast-to-coast greenfield design, implement, train, and overhaul of every piece of hardware and software and data comm links for 40 locations with 6 regional data centers.
Lesson learned - the only real problem you've had was in announcing well in advance a date certain for conversion. Your propellor-heads (and I use that term with all due respect - I was one) just need to add a little "murky" into the schedule announcements, that's all. That way, you can under-promise and over-deliver.
It will all work out just fine. No apologies needed. Give the techies my best wishes. It ain't as bad as it might seem at times - they cannot eat you.
Oh, it is terrible. Here I sit like a lil boy in front of the Christmas tree with my name on a big package. Burnie Burnie before Dec. 25. In all actually, I am just learning the old system and it will probably take years to learn a new one.
Tink
Not so fast there, Spotcheck! In one of my prior incarnations, I was Chief Engineer for a small nuclear consulting company working on plant process computer upgrades at nuke plants. You're dead on about never announcing a firm delivery date. (Marketing folks can, actually, but everyone knows how much they lie)As far as being eaten, I'm missing more than a couple of chunks out of my arse just for getting on the critical path for restart - let alone causing a restart delay. - lol (not lmao since I can't really spare any more.)
Hang on, there, Mr Nuke Engineer - you were playing Pac-Man with a radioactive pile, and you want to be able to color outside the lines??? I don't think so.
I used to fly into Harrisburg, PA on a regular basis - the landing path takes you directly you over...oh.....dogonne it........what's that installation called? The one where only half is working. Hmmmmmmmmm - help me out, here. Something about miles, was it???
Just a friendly jab in the ribs - I'm chuckling - I have no doubt you are missing a couple large chunks. You come from a higher stress chair than me, pal. Glad you still have a sense of humor about it. Sounds like neither your nor I miss it one little bit.
There wasn't any Pac Man when I started my nuke career, and plant computers took up large, refrigerated, rooms. One of the biggest surprises I ever got was when we replaced a roomful of computers and peripherals at a NJ plant with two computers about twice the size of a 386 IBM PC. We had them on folding tables in the hall while the programmers wrote the code.You're thinking of Three Mile Island which (a) drove the last nail in the nuclear coffin, and (b) added ten years to my nuclear career.TMI happened because the control room crew got inundated with alarms, bells and whistles - many of them unimportant. It's been said that if they would all have just left the control room, the plant would have shut itself down and we would never have heard of it. Instead, they tried to help and made matters worse. Thanks to TMI, I spent the next ten years working on computer systems to bring the really important information to the control room and present it to the operators in a clear and unambiguous way so they could focus on the really important stuff.Actually, I do sorta miss it. I spent over 20 years working on some incredibly interesting projects with some of the brightest people you could ever meet. We did some really neat stuff and made good money doing it.One other advantage to being a nuke is that I never need a night light. - lol
Edited 12/3/2009 10:24 pm by Dave45
Dave - oh yeah, I knew it was TMI - I was just yanking your chain.
"It's been said that if they would all have just left the control room, the plant would have shut itself down and we would never have heard of it."
That I did not know. Very interesting- and it makes sense. THose days were when all of industry was transitional to computer controls, but still focused on human intervention - and the TMI controls show that - let the computers handle it, but fust to be sure, send up the flares on everything - sensory overload, and the human link couldn't handle it. You must have been right in the middle of some very fascinating developments.
My vision of the future includes a much greater role for nuke plants, with pre-build plans locked down so the regulatory agencies aren't changing the designs + rules during construction - avoid the $bn cost overruns, and standardize the process.
Thanks for the discussion
>let the computers handle it<
I love the verbal intro that assures everyone that 'everything is totally under computer control and nothing can go wrong....go wrong....go wrong..wotI started out with nothing...and I still have most of it left!
Yeah - I frequently talk with my laptop, but I'm always saying the same thing:
"Open the pod bay door, HAL."
Actually, the computers never "handled" things in the systems I worked on. The plant control systems used contact-relay circuits to control plant systems operation and systems status was provided on acres of control room gauges, dials, meters, and lights. Our computer systems just repackaged and presented the status info in a more graphical format, but were never allowed to perform a control function.
Actually, standardized plants were around when I began in the early 70's. My earliest work was on two plants in MN and one in WI. The MN plants were mirror images of one another and the WI plant was a copy of one of the MN plants. I had been working on the WI plant for about a year when my company got a contract to work on the MN plants. We used the WI plant drawings and documentation for a few weeks while we collected the MN plant-specific information.In the late '70's, I worked on two of the SNPPSS (Standardized Muclear Power Plant Steam Supply) plants. That was a consortium of four utilities building five plants - two in MO, one in KS, one in MN, and one in upstate NY. Only two were built (one in MO and one in KS). The others were cancelled.There's no doubt in my (alleged) mind that the U.S. screwed the pooch when we turned our back on nuclear power. Yes, there were technological issues, but they were solvable - and many of them were only "issues" in the fevered minds of people who probably struggled with high school General Science.We've lost at least a generation of technological development as well as a trained and experienced work force. If we ever try to resurrect the nuclear option, we'll be importing the technology and workforce from countries that recognized that Jane Fonda (et al) was an actress and not a scientist. - lol
I'm with you. I have the impression (no expert at all) that the nuke power industry has gotten to the place where there is a standardized "template" if you will, for new plants - streamlining design + planning, lowering and controlling costs, etc. Maybe I'm wrong, and this isn't new at all? But other countries are building lots of them, and we sit here with our thumbs up our coal mines.
To me, the real hurdle with nuke power seems to lie with the problem of waste disposal, and it is a political problem. And - please folks, don't start on me, because I am a "greenie" too, but a pragmatic one (contradiction in terms?) - what is the solution? Too much carbon from fossil fuel plants, the nukes create terrifying waste, the wind turbines disrupt the flight path of the lesser who-see-what's annual migration, solar farms in the SW require tearing up the fragile desert ecosystem with equipment building the related distribution networks. Maybe I need 10,000 hamsters in cages powering my shop equipment? But then, I'll pollute the earth when I shovel out all that hamster c**p out the door.
Maybe the wacko fringe element is correct, and when the Large Hadron Collider gets up to full warp power, we're all instantly vaporized by Big Bang Parrt Deux, and we don't have to worry about this stuff any more.
One thing that's overlooked about nuclear waste is that it disappears naturally as it decays. All radioactive materials have a half-life which is the time necesary for it's radioactivity to decrease by 50%. Generally speaking, the radioactivity is gone after 10 half-lives.Another thing that isn't well understood is that many (most?) radioactive materials have fairly short half-lives. A major source of radiation in an operating BWR (boiling water reactor) is Nitrogen-16 which decays by emitting a fairly energetic gamma particle. The half-life of N-16 is ~9 seconds. When our BWR is operating, the N-16 is safely contained inside the containment structure and is no danger to anyone. When we shut down our BWR N-16 production stops, and 90 seconds later the N-16 is gone - well before we could open the doors to the containment building.On the other side of the spectrum is Plutonium with a half-life of ~250,000 years. Fortunately, power reactors only generate small quantities of it, and it's fairly easy to shield it's radiation. The current disposal "solution" is long term storage at the waste repository in NV - assuming that it's ever activated. A far better - but politically incorrect - solution would be to recycle it into new fuel that can be used in new reactors. The rest of the world does it, but trying it here would start a riot.An interesting side note about the NV repository. Theoretically, storage may have to safely exist for ~25 million years. One significant issue is what kind of signage can be used to indicate danger to whatever life forms will live there a few million years from now.
Dave - very good explanation. Unfortunately, now I'm gonna have stuck in the back of my mind the signage problem, and it will keep popping up for weeks. Dammit. All I can think of at the moment is Kirk and Spock and "V-ger".
I guess my thinking is that there are no "pristine" solutions, but there are plenty of options for "manageable" solutions to supplying energy to raise the quality of life for everyone, everywhere. Some years ago, I read an article - the details are long forgotten - about what life would be like in NYC with today's population and no internal combustion engines, just horses. The amount of manure generated on a daily basis was astonishing.
And - Gina - We've taken the thread waaaay away from you day-to-day headache. You're welcome. Hope it's still going well.
I've watched several of the shows describing what would happen if humanity suddenly disappeared from the earth. One of the more fascinating parts was the film of how the towns around Chernobyl have been taken over by nature.Gina -I can't speak for Spotcheck, but my part of this thread hijack is a deliberate attempt to divert attention from your changeover schedule. We've got your back, girlfriend. Use the time wisely. - lol
What do you guys think of the Canadian Candu Reactor? Canada has sold their technology all over the globe such as to France and India. A friend of mine back in Seattle is a retired Radio Scientist who now does consulting. He likes the Canadian system, he said it's a simple system that is friendly to the environment. He claims it's almost idiot proof.
The biggest problem the US has is the fact that the media have convinced the public that anything with the word "Nuclear"in it means the end of the world. When the oil runs out, the US will have screwed itself, again. Most of the people in this country have no idea what a Super Collider is, let alone where it is. I find it rather embarrassing to watch Leno ask the people he meets on the streets simple questions. These people have no clue!!!!!!!!!!! I'm surprised they make it through the day. I get going on this topic and I just go out of control. I have a son in High School here in Indiana, and it is sad the low level these kids are being taught at. He knows what his goals are and he busts his butt at home trying to fill in the voids. All his reachers and I have had words. If it wasn't for his laptop, our home would look like a library. If it wasnt so important for the need of a child to learn how to socialize, I would prefer to Home School him.
I was educated in Canada, and it was completely different. Even at the University level it's like two different worlds. I did my BS at the University of British Columbia, then did some Grad studies at the University of Chicago. I felt like I was dealing with people who should never have been aloud to graduate high school. Time to take a big deep breath.........................Sorry!!
But they say we wont have to worry much longer December 12th, 2012 is only about three years and one week away.
I'm not very familiar with any of the foreign plant designs. IIRC, some of the Canadian plants used heavy water (Tritium) for their coolant/moderator, but that's about all I remember.For a few years, I worked on HTGR's (High Temperature Gas Reactors) and LMFBR's (Liquid Metal Fast Breeder Reactors). The technology was fascinating, but the designs never went much beyond the prototype stage.
I hear very little, if an, mention of the fact that we have had nuclear powered military vessels (subs and aircraft carriers) for over 50 years with no incidents. You can't get much closer to a nuclear reactor than in a submarine - and that is over an extended period of time.Our uninformed press continues to portray any parabolic shaped cooling tower as "Nuclear". A shame.Frosty“If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert,
in 5 years there’d be a shortage of sand.” Milton Friedman
There have been military nuclear facilities since the 50's - both on land and at sea. There was even a substantial amount of work done on nuclear powered aircraft, but that was dropped long ago. I served on a nuclear powered cruiser (USS Long Beach) from '69 - '71.There have been "incidents" at military nukes, but they aren't regulated by the NRC so those aren't reported in the same way. One of the most fascinating was the SL1 incident in the mid 50's. They were doing some maintenance on a test reactor in Idaho, and one of the technicians was reconnecting the control rod drive motors to the control rods. One of the motors was too high above the rod and he (without thinking) lifted the rod to make the connection. The reactor went prompt-critical and blew the rod thru the technician and pinned him to the ceiling of the reactor room. I've seen the movie of the incident, and one of my nuke school instructors was there when it happened. T'wernt pretty, for sure.I remember seeing something about a nuke plant on the news several years ago and they showed the stock footage of a hyperbolic cooling tower billowing steam. The only problems were that: (a) the film also showed the coal pile for the coal fired plant, and (b) the plant they were talking about didn't even use hyperbolic cooling towers. (I know, 'cause I had worked there. - lol)
That's quite a story! Scary.Perhaps his 'end' was better that dying from radiation. I was educated as a Civil Engineer and thus am lacking in knowledge about other engineering disciplines. I apologize if I use improper verbiage at times.Frosty“If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert,
in 5 years there’d be a shortage of sand.” Milton Friedman
No apologies necessary. I often use improper verbiage - even in areas where I'm supposed to know better. - lolAfter I posted that, I googled "SL1 Incident" and found it in the internet. I was mistaken on the date (it was in '61), but essentially correct in the rest. Check it out. There are several interesting pictures, and more detailed explanations.
Will do.Thanks, JerryFrosty“If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert,
in 5 years there’d be a shortage of sand.” Milton Friedman
"over 50 years with no incidents." There were 5 acknowledge major incidents involving US submarines alone from 1969 to 1980, all can be found in public record. The Air Force's record is much longer. Also public record. Then there's what you don't know...By the by, most naval cores end up at Hanford (HNR)to be "dealt with"Hanford itself has it's own set of histories. Oakridge and I.N.E.L -sameBefore someone jumps, I'm not pro or anti, I don't have a dog in that hunt.
Just interested.BB
>announcing well in advance a date certain for conversion<In the Navy, we just said, "Here's the schedule. Keep in mind it's carved in jello."Time is to keep it from all happening at once. Space is to keep it from all happening to me. - attributed to various people
Okay, latest news, the latest target is Tuesday or Wednesday of next week. That date is obviously changeable.
Instead of making a new post, I just edited the title of this one.
Gina, FineWoodworking
Much better, Gina. Now, it's a "target" and you gave yourself a couple of days to hit it. With four days to work with, you'll have plenty of time to cook up new problems. You go, girl!! - lol(Lordy, I'm glad that I gave up honest work a long time ago.)
Edited 12/3/2009 7:15 pm by Dave45
Good luck, Gina. I hope Murphy doesn't make an extended visit.
me too... fingers crossed. Gina
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