I posted this over on breaktime, but it is just as much a furniture question as a floor question.
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| I checked out a floor issue for my nephew a couple of days ago and I think I gave him the correct advice, but I thought I would run it by some of you floor refinishers. He had a new red oak floor installed this past fall in his house in NW Ohio. The finisher did a poor job of cleanup after sanding and then applied a stain and two coats of alkyd poly without sanding between coats. My nephew told them that the job was unacceptable and they came back and sanded and applied three coats of satin poly without ever sanding between coats and giving it only 8 hrs. to dry. They put one coat on in the morning and came back at 5 and put another coat on and came back the next morning and applied the last coat. This was in humid August. Now the finish is lifting at most of the joints in the 3″ boards at the edges and the ends. I am a furniture maker and use Pre-cat lacquers on my pieces and am not that faimiliar with Polys, but it looks like the film finish is too thick and was not given sufficient time to cure between coats. If you drop any flatware on it it will chip as well. The floor guy says he has never seen anything like it and he thinks it is a moisture problem. I think he is wrong because moisture would lift the finish anywhere on the board not just the joints. What do the experts think? |
Replies
The floor refinishers are incompetent.
I would have to agree with you in this case. The guys used satin throughout the entire 5 coat process and the finish obviously looks cloudy. I would think any finisher of any wood product would know to use gloss until the final coat to prevent a more cloudy finish. He originally told me they didn't even clean up after they sanded and I thought he was just exaggerating, maybe not.
There's certainly that! But even the finishing schedule he followed says he is either incompetent, or doesn't care.
Terrylee,
Those guys couldn't find their backsides with both hands and a hunting dog. Tell your nephew not to pay them a dime, and if he has, take 'em to Judge Judy!
Steve
There are two secrets to keeping one's wife happy.
1. Let her think she's having her own way.
2. Let her have her own way. President Lyndon Baines Johnson
this one thinks they used an oil stain ,and if they used it between coats the whole floor will lift! the cloudiness is most likely them using cheap thinner /to much of it and to many coats in a short time with humidity to boot.
If that was oil based I dont see how they walked on it after only 8hours, water based, ok. I just finished mine with Bona Traffic (water based) and you can add additional coats 3hrs after it is applied. I would disagree with it being moisture also, unless your nephew has heard creaks and growns due to wood shrinkage/expansion. Sounds like poor prep has led to poor adhesion. If he didnt clean it well after sanding the first go around, I doubt he did much better the second. Chipping suggests to me that the finish did not adhere at all in some areas and when I sanded between coats, I know it took effort to remove any bubbles or drips and that was only hours after applying the previous coat.
Brad
Brad,That is what I thought, but my nephew said it smelled like paint thinner not like the ammonia smell you get with water-based products. He was not sure, but he thought they said it was oil. The worst thing is that that was the last piece of a one year remodeling puzzle and now they are going to have to move out of their own house because it is the whole first floor. They were on vacation the last time it was done and I guess the floor guy took advantage of that. He said he is going to watch every step this time and call me to get updates on how it should be done. I have heard good things about Bona products, but I have never used them. Is it a catalyzed finish or a water-based poly?
I wouldnt worry about moving out totally. I rented a Varathane sander with a dust collector (no access to the Bona Sanders) and monitored with my Dylos while sanding. The readings did not exceed 1500 while sanding and there was nearly no dust on the walls when I was done. I hooked my shop vac to the machine for a bit and was able to get the readings a little lower yet. Many Pros still use traditional machines without much dust collection and they make a mess. If he can, find a Bona install company with their sanders and he will not have to deal with any mess when they are done. Check out the video on their site.
The Varathane sander was nice, but kinda slow. In essence, it is three 7" random orbital sanders with a heavy motor to improve the sanding.
The Bona Traffic is a two part water based product, dries very fast so you have to be on the ball to get done before it all starts to cure. Pretty expensive ($150/gal to do 350 - 400sqft). I used that one because I have Brazillian Cherry and read there is a potential for white spotting with this wood species with some other products. No idea why. It is really for high traffic commerical applications where wear is critical. They have some other water based versions, Bona Mega and one other I think, he may want to take a look at.
Good luck
Brad
brad most oil based floor finishes can be walked on in three hours ,and coated again in six. I just finished 4500 sf with defthane floor finish over mohawk wiping stain ,a tottal of six coats /two coats per day . I have done over 100 floors and still say it sounds like they finish over an oil based stian. but can not say forsure unless I was there to seeit ?
Edited 5/28/2008 4:11 pm ET by woodguydan
Interesting to know, thanks for sharing. I did not research any of the oil based for my floors as I did not want the smell. Kinda sucks for the OP's nephew. Gets to redo the whole thing yet again. Round three, batter up.
Brad
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