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I have bad mouthed shellac mostly because I don’t like the glossy finish.
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I do not want to rub with steel wool or polishing agent after the fact.
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Is there anything I can add to the shellac as a flattening agent?
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I’m looking for recommendations from actually use. Doing a google search is something I’ve already done.
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Thanks.
Replies
sleepydad,
Here is a link to a product that fits what you are looking for.
http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/shellac3.htm
I have not used it, but if Jeff sells it, it must work.
Rob Millard
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com
I've used the shellac flattner, good stuff. The people at Homestead finishing are first rate to deal with. Hope this helps!
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flat matte eggshell satin semi-gloss high gloss <!----><!---->
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I would say shellac is high gloss on its own.<!----><!---->
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There is a mixing schedule that comes with the product which allows you to determine the sheen you want. I like working with shellac, easy to build, makes the grain pop, clarity, and it doesn't stink up the whole house, but the high gloss right out of the can i never cared for. With the flattner from Homestead I can have the sheen semi-gloss or dead flat if I so choose. A very easy product to work with and as I said before the people at Homestead finishing are first rate. Hope this helps.
Just curious Rob... have you tried the Abralon sanding pads from Jeff's joint... and if so any comment on them?
Regards...
Sarge..
Sarge,
I'm sorry, I have not used them. I did have someone tell me about them, and they recommended them highly.
Rob Millard
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com
Thanks Rob as I have heard and read good news. I saw a gentleman on this site that had finished a rocking chair with them and it got my attention.
Again thanks as I know you're busy..
Sarge..
Sarge,
Abralon pads come in grits from 180 to 4000. They are six inch round pads
I am finishing a large round table ( 80 inch top) in pre-cat lacquer. Between coats I sand to level the coat.
Using abralon pads on a six inch sander;
The vinyl sealer coat was sanded with 360.
The first coats of lacquer were sanded with 500. Prior to the last coat it was sanded with 1000. The last coat I applied over this flowed out very nicely.
Once cured I will do a final rub on the surface with 2000 grit. It will have a very nice glow when complete.
In this instance I used them dry and removed them from the sander occasionally to tap the dust out.
Normally rubbing out this top with sandpaper would have easily taken me a couple of hours.
With the abralon, I had the sealer sanded in 20 minutes, the lacquer coats took me a little over a half hour.
When I'm done I'll go around with one by hand and touch down any areas that need it.
Let's say you have a brushed varnished surface that needs to be rubbed out. A little water on the surface and all you need is one or two passes and it's level.
They are pricey but very well worth the time and labor saved.
Peter
I'm about semi-familiar with them Peter. I saw some work done with them on a rocking chair that was out-standing. So.. I called Jeff and got the starter kit which is sitting on my finish shelf. I'm going to use them on a chest of drawers.
I'm sort of free-lancing the approach at this point and maybe you or Sas can lend a hand. I will sand to 220 and then go with 320 grit dry. At that point.. I intend to apply golden Danish oil and let it dry thoroughly before padding with shellac.
Then I intend to go through the grits with Abralon starting with 500 up to the max. This again is just the game plan as it stands without knowledge of how the Abralon will come into play with each grit change.
I suppose my question would be.. how would you approach it with a base of Danish then padded shellac applied. I don't like a shiny finish and want it to glow but glow in a warm manner as to not draw major attention from direct lighting.
Any ideas.. thoughts or suggestion having used it before?
Regards...
Sarge..
Sarge,
After you have your shellac on let it sit for at least a week and cure.
If you don't want a shiny surface, you can get away just using the 500 pad. If you want it a bit more refined go to the 1000 grit and stop. You may also consider rubbing it afterwards with 0000 Liberon steel wool. It is by far the best.
There are times when after rubbing back a surface with an abralon, I'll clean the surface of all dust and then burnish it dry with a very soft cloth. It will give you a very soft appearance.
If you go all the way through to the top grit it will become more mirror like and much shinier.
When lubricating them with water or oil, remember; water will provide a more aggressive cut than oil. If you are rubbing the shellac back with a lubricant you can use mineral oil or mineral spirits with a little paraffin oil added for slip.
When rubbing a surface with a lubricant be sure and stop occasionally and wipe the surface dry to inspect it.
Don't ever forget these pads cut quickly. Take into consideration what the mil thickness of your finish is when you start and be CAREFUL OF YOUR EDGES.
Peter
Thank you Peter as what you stated I was more or less suspect of. I believe the gentleman with the rocker finish that caught my eye stopped at 500 with the Abralon if I remember his comments correctly. So.. anything higher is going to kick off more shine as would be expected.
Got you loud and clear on the edges.. which is IMO true using any type of abrasive. It helps going into the fight knowing that the Abralon gets to the point with no wasted effort. I always do edges by hand.. so I should be OK there.
One last question.. normally using the Danish I stop and let it cure. And I hear ya on letting the shellac cure also. I think the biggest mistake people make is not letting any dry thoroughly and cure before they move further with detail or put it in use. I don't have dead-lines so and do have patience so..... I'm go to go on that.
But.. once cured, I apply wax with the 0000 and buff it out. What are your thoughts (or anyone) on the wax after the procedure you recommended? Wax it.. or let it stand alone is the question.... ???
Again.. thanks very much for the assistance.
Sarge..
I use Abralon pads. They're great (just like everything else from Mirka, actually). I use them with a little mineral spirits for lubricant.
-Steve
Thanks for the in-put Steve. See post # 11 to Peter as I'm asking you the same questions since you and he have gotten your feet wet with it. I have the starter kit sitting on the shelf ready to roll in a week or so when I finish building drawers.
Any input with the data I gave Peter from your experience would be appreciated as I'm basically "shooting in the dark". I suppose if there is any good news.. I'm accustomed to shooting in the dark and know how to adjust on the fly.
You guys may be able to steer me toward fewer adjustments which would be most appreciated till I have a clue how it will react under certain conditions.
Again... thanks to you.. Rob and Peter for in-put....
Sarge..
Like Peter says, you need to be sure you have enough film thickness that you don't cut through it, but other than that the Abralon pads are about as easy as can be. With shellac, I hand-sand with P320 Fre-Cut on a rubber block between every three coats or so, just to remove nibs and keep the surface reasonably flat. That way, when the time comes for final rubbing out there aren't any big boulders in the finish. Then on to the Abralon pads, mounted on the foam backer, which then goes on the ROS. I start with 500, and take a couple of passes over the surface (lubricated with mineral spirits, as I mentioned). I then wipe it off with a cotton cloth and look for any shiny spots. If there are any, I repeat until they're gone. Then just a couple of passes with 1000, and a couple more with 2000 (and sometimes 4000, but usually not). Even 4000 doesn't give you a truly shiny finish; it's more like what you get with a good hard paste wax. If you do want a high-gloss finish, then a final buffing with an automotive product will do the trick.
I usually apply paste wax after I'm done. I think of it as sort of a sacrificial protective layer. It doesn't give a lot of protection, but it does help against water spots and such, and when it does get damaged, it's trivially easy to refresh.
-Steve
Thanks for your in-put Steve. I have always waxed like you as I just have for whatever reason. I may wait and make the call once the Abralon is done as it will be easier to make the call with the visual evidence in front of me.
Kind of like a lot of things in this hobby I have found over the years.. you have to adjust on the fly as the un-expected seems to always rear it's ugly head somewhere you least expect it.
Thanks again and if I run into an ambush... you'll hear me yell "help". But with you guys help, I have a feel for the lay of the land before I get to the acutual encounter. :>)
Regards...
Sarge..
"sleepydad,
Here is a link to a product that fits what you are looking for.
http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/htdocs/shellac3.htm
I have not used it, but if Jeff sells it, it must work.
Rob Millard"
I've used his dark garnet shellac and it's excellent. I also know that his book on finishing that is published by Tauton helped me tremendously. It explains what I consider an art and a painful last step, "finishing". Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
I've used his dark garnet shellac and it's excellent. I also know that his book on finishing that is published by Tauton helped me tremendously. It explains what I consider an art and a painful last step, "finishing".
I never had much trouble with joinery, but finishing was a hurdle (it still makes me nervous).
I like his de-waxed dark shellac, and his shellac wet. The Trans Tints, though are my favorite of his products.
Rob Millard
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com
"I never had much trouble with joinery, but finishing was a hurdle (it still makes me nervous")... Rob M.
I got a big chuckle out of that coming from you and your work I've seen. It hits home with some of us amateurs also. I just tenoned the face and rear frame on a chest. I use dadoes.. open tenons.. saddles (or bridles) on the drawer runner hardware. Not necessary I suppose to go to those lengths but I just prefer to do it as I love every joint made with a passion.
But.... finish time for me is when the nerves get shattered. After 36 years I am somewhat still clueless from the results sometimes. All that joint work I love to do covered and camouflaged with a $29 Earl Shiebe's paint job. ha.. ha... ha..ha..ha..
Regards...
Sarge..
Edited 3/1/2008 12:41 pm ET by SARGEgrinder47
Put a coat of paste wax on the piece using 0000 steel wool or gray synthetic pad going with the grain. It will give a warm soft looking finish when you buff the wax.
We get to soon oldt und to late schmart
Most agents used to make a flat finish are silica particles. I have never found one that does not make a "cloudy" "dull" looking finish. Maybe someone will have a better answer, but I would not use a material that has a gloss and try to tone it down. Have you ever used a tung oil/varnish? I like the transparent look of the wood, without getting a high gloss look. Takes longer to apply for drying time.
AZMO
I’m trying to keep the dry time down also the smell as I have children running around. I used to use tongue oil all the time. It’s nice but to smelly and dry time way to long.
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I think I have what I’m looking for with a really light coat of BLO then 1 ½# or 2# blond shellac then top coat with water based poly. The water based poly seems to adhere well and does not cloud up, and I get the low gloss. Seem to be working well on some test pieces. The key is very light on the BLO else it bleeds through.
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I need to do a bunch of face frame stuff today so I’ll be giving it a go.
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My previous experience with flattening agents are similar to yours - Cloudy.
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