9 years ago I started to build myself a home made mainly of hardwoods.
My city has an extremely complex system of rules regarding the size, location, setbacks, percentages, allowable hardcover, and a million other things..
What’s worse, in spite of numerous and frequent requests they won’t give you, sell you, or even allow access to a copy of the rules. They tend to be made up and interpited more based on whim and the individual than on any logic that I can detect..
One city planner deems so-and- so important while another focuses on something else.
38 trips it took to city council meetings, planning commission meetings, back to city council, back to planning commission, meetings with various public officals, meetings at city hall etc..
That does not count the countless trips to city hall once a portion was approved.. or permits were granted. etc..
Last Night I got final approval for the last bit!
I can’t tell you all the hurdles I overcame to get that approval. City council was going to reject my application and might even force me to demolish much of what was already built in spite of the building permits granted!
They’d been misled and I got a singed statement by a minister (who helps me out sometimes when he needs a little extra cash) recepts, and another witness there to testify. simply to counter that.. Plus City council had been led to believe that my house was simply too big, using city records I pointed out that I my proposal was 101 feet smaller than one neighbor and 400 feet smaller than the other.
What I just pointed out took me 9 years and probably nearly 1000 hours to achieve..
In the end I was approved by a 3 to one vote..
Replies
Being in a business where I deal with those types on a daily basis I can totally appreciate your fight. Congratulations. Seems every City we work in is fraught with many illy qualified persons with different secret agendas. We have one client that finds it easier to beg for forgiveness rather than ask for permission. Have you already shared some insight into what all you are doing? If so, I'll do a search. If not, please share.
brad805,
I'm building a double timberframe, black walnut timbers on outside white oak timbers on inside with SIP's between built on an ICF foundation.. about 5500 sq ft total..
Rough looking now but when finished should be rather cool. Big massive timbers , stained glass, gothic arched windows in a few places. Black walnut floors in Billard room and bridge, Tower starts on second floor and goes up 18 feet, has a butcherblock cantalievered walkway that curls around it and goes into the attic.. .. cupula on top of that. Master bedroom all black walnut including coffered ceilings, raised paneled walls made from fiddleback maple, old fashion pull chain toilets, claw foot tub, very turn of the century feeling.Exterior is English tudor style with stone where stucco normally is (London Cobble) steep (27/12 pitch roof) hand split cedar shakes coppper gutters and flashing. The driveway is paving brick from 1904 that was torn up and given to me free (including hauling) I'm on the lake and have lake views from three sides. (on a point) the exteritior is about 80% finished and the interior is about 30% done.. Flooring should be the real gem when done.. burled oak (22 inches wide), paduck, and hard maple all white 18 foot long and as wide as 14 inches.
Sire Frenchy, Sounds like Camelot !
Whoa. Camelot, Is refering to His new Castle !
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Edited 2/16/2007 8:59 am ET by BruceS
Isn't Camelot where you go to buy another camel?
"Isn't Camelot where you go to buy another camel?"
No, Dummy, That is the lot where you feed the camels.
Whyu would you feed them unless buyers are there too?
To fatten them up for the big sale of course. By the way, do you know what a twip is? No, what? It's a wide on a twain, tupid.
Both wrong.
Cow herd, bird flock, fish school, camelot.
Ray
"cow herd, bird flock, fish school"
But you know what this is really a "lot" of? .......
Edited 2/20/2007 8:26 pm ET by tinkerer2
Congratulations, Frenchy, and good-on-ya for being persistent and determined!!! We have similar problems here on the Island, and it's just maddening. Is there any chance you'll run for City Council??
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
forestgirl
I ran for mayor, campaigned for part of one saturday and came in 2 nd with 35% of the vote to a former mayor and member of the city council..
Hi frenchy,
That's great. Most people would have given up. I know I would have. Here on the southern Oregon coast permits weren't even needed until the late 1970's. When I built my new shop 2 years ago it took me 20 minutes to get my permit, and that included the drive. But since then things have gotten a bit tighter ( permit wise ) with more people moving into the area. I wonder why it is that planning and building departments are so varied in their interpertation of the uniform building code? Ramble, ramble, ramble. Anyway, good luck on your project . I hope you won't need it.
Paul
Congrats, frenchy. Maybe they'd've let you have a copy of their rulebook if you'd offer to decoupage it for them with some of that cheap walnut and shellac you're always evangelizing about. Working with a preacher, now I understand why you get up on that shellac pulpit so easily!
Best wishes,
Ray
It wasn't the house that was the problem Frenchy....they were worried that you would start up a lumber yard with all the (on so inexpensive) wood you get from the sawmills....By the way, more pics of the timberframe please....Jimmy
jimmy,
I'd love to share some with you guys but I'm a computor dunce.. offered free wood to people hoping somebody would show me how it's done. Woods gone but pictures never got posted ;-(
frenchy,
I sent you an email, I'll try to help you out if I can.
There is no such thing as a computer illiterate, or dunce; I despise that, not directed to you frenchy. If you're not familiar with computers and you're trying to use them, how can you possibly be called computer illiterate, or much less a dunce?
A more appropriate term might be computer challenged. if you will.
Perhaps I'm being picky and a persnickerty old fart but let's be real. I've spent the majority of my life in the computer industry (nearly 40 years). If I can help someone out, I feel like the rest of the Knotheads in here.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Thanks Bob,
I'll read it today when I open my mail and get back to you..
Congrats of your sucessful permitting. Your house sounds intriguing. I built mine all out of wood, but not near as exotic(to me) as yours. I look foward to the pics.
Pedro
Perhaps you could help me out with posting pics on this forum. I have an Apple with Intel Core duo, OSX 10.4.8. I have no luck with all I have tried.
Pedro
"There is no such thing as an illiterate or a dunce."
Well, knowing myself as well as I do, that might be disputed, but anyway I consider highly complimented. If you are sending help to Frenchy by email, could you include a copy to me also. I would so much appreciate it. I just found out how to send pics on by email, but can't see how to send them on this forum. In fact, I had just sat down here to see if I could find something on that. What a coincidence.
ptu and anyone else interested in how to post pics in Knots.
I should add that this applies to PC users, not MAC. I apologize to all you MAC users, as I am MAC challenged :-) :-) Actually, the more I think about it, I would guess that the MAC process would be nearly the same, as this is a function of your browser, not your computer. In the case of the MAC, Browse might launch "Chooser", or something of that ilk.
Some day I'll figure out how to insert smiley faces and the like. Also I don't plan to post this in the Gallery as my art work could use a considerable amount of improvement.
Enjoy and let me know if there are buggies hiding in there.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Thank you for the response, but when I push the button "browse," I get nothing. Is this just a picture of the buttons or should I be able to push the buttons shown in your post.
It's just a picture.
When you Reply to a post or want to Post New you get a dialogue box that allows you to type in your response/new message. If you scroll down to the bottom you will see an Attach Files button. That is where my piture takes you through the process.
Sheesh, I wish I could be there as it's so simple to do. Perhaps I'm not explaining it properly for you. Hang in there man, we'll get it going for you!
Hope this helps,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 2/15/2007 9:15 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Thank you, Thank you! I hope this works. Is it legal to send a sample pic? Is the little yellow thing supposed to appear before I send this? If not - what next?
Hey! Is that a John Deere tablesaw?
I think it's his portable assembly table with 4 wheel drive and hydro lift!
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
"John Deere table saw?"
Naw, it's the new Powermatic 2025 Whinkmadink. It is sort of like a table saw - does some of the same things, but it is self propelled. Very nice for mobility around jobsites. John Deere - didn't they go out of business some years back?
Actually, this is the saw's ride from a 15 by 15 room in the basement, of my house, to its new 40 by 42 shop of which I would like to show pictures and explain later, now that I'm learning to send pictures.
Well, I thought I had lost it when it didn't show up in the dialog box. But at last ----- success! Lesson II How do you change size? I've seen others have trouble with that one. Again, Thank You!
Google "Irfan viewer". Great program for this as it can handle many different graphics formats. Download it and install it, very simple.
After launching it, choose File/Open and browse your system for the pics. After the pic loads, click Image/Resize. If you look in the resulting dialogue box you'll see it as pixels. Just below you cna change it to inches and this will tell you the actual size the image would be if you were to print/display it. I usually change them to about 10" in the first box, Width I think. This gives a good size for viewing and the resulting file size isn't too large for dial-up users to see.
Good luck and have fun,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
How is this for size?
OK, how did you insert yourself in the drivers seat? Is this reduced size pic the result of your prowess with IrfanView?
Best Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Oops, I didn't see any activity on this thread for several days so I hoped no one would notice my practicing. Can't get by with anything. I did try InfanView, then lost it. My son in law helped me do this. Then I lost my provider. Just got it back on line. Oh my! Thanks to you, I'm still on track. Actually, I'm taking the pic, my son is on the tractor.
No kidding, that's the same way I move my machines, cept I have a Yanmar with a loader, not a JD, but they sure look the same....comes in handy eh?Jeff
I must say, you're pretty astute. According to my dealer, that tractor was made by Yanmar in Japan. I think all the JD compact tractors, of that vintage, were actually green painted Yanmars. Lately, John Deere makes their own. JD had an agreement that as long as Yanmar was supplying them to JD that Yanmar would not sell any of their own brand in the US. What year is yours?
Edited 2/21/2007 8:53 pm ET by tinkerer2
Yes, it was my understanding that Yanmar made the JD compact tractors early on. Don't know why Yanmar tractors can not be imported directly into the US (probably because of John Deere), but there is some restriction. I bought mine on the second hand market, but I had to buy it thru Canada as they can not be imported directly from Japan into the US.I was told there is a law in Japan that farmers must replace their tractors every XX years (because of emissions?) with new tractors, so these used tractors have very low hours on them and are incredibly good deals. Mine is an early eighties model, that's about as
close as I can get to what year it is. It had 300 hours on it when I bought it. That's three hundred hours plowing rice paddies. Hydrostatic tranny, 3 speed locking rear diff, 4X4, the loader was added new, along with a backhoe. The outfit that imports them paints them green (they are red in Japan), puts a new seat and battery in them. I really love the machine and it has served me quite well. Tractors....another serious tool addiction. I'll be selling this one soon as I don't have acreage anymore...Jeff
How do you like the hydrostatic? I have the straight gears, four + reverse over two. I have always thought it would have been much better if they could have put two + reverse over four. Would have been much handier for using the bucket especially. I bought it for mowing grass. It is way too big for what I mow now, but I have literally hauled hundreds and hundreds of tons of dirt and gravel - a little small for that but with a little patience, it gets it done. But I am about done with the dirt and gravel. I will probably keep it for snow removal and fire wood. If I put chains on it, it is pretty good for pushing snow.
Frenchy: Cool, Dude! Here in Berkeley the city permit problem is intense but the details elude me. I only know of it second hand but the horror stories are everywhere. Guy across the street has foundations built to support a house he bought and was to be moved from a couple of blocks away, all the permits were signed (or so he thought). The heritage council objected at the last moment saying the house to be moved was some kind of historical building and couldn't be moved. So there is a pair of new foundations on a lot just sitting there for 20+ years. Surprised they didn't make him remove them.
As others have said how about some pictures?
Good luck, Duke
"... Buy the best and only cry once.........
dukeone,
I've got tons of pictures but lack knowledge on how to make them go from my computer to the Fine wood working site..
Others have tried to talk me thru it and I actually drove out to SanDiego to visit a friend who's son posts pictures, drawings etc. professionally. It took him an hour and 45 minutes to post them I lost track after less than 10 minutes..
If time hasn't expired they are still out there maybe over a breaktime.
PS any computer savy guys want some wood for a little computer lesson stop by please..
My wife had to help me learn to post pics. I will let you have my wife for free wood, but a deal is a deal. You can not send her back when you get tired of her.
Way to go. Nothing feels better than fighting city hall and winning...
Once your home is finished, they'll probably invoke eminent domain and seize it for their own use (just kidding).
I feel for you, frenchy. Well done!
My city posts every building code, zoning law, local and state statute, ordininance, etc., on the web.
My neighbor sued me over my back yard (very long easement story), but thanks to all that online info I ended up wearing them down, winning $3000 from them, turning my easement on their land into MY LAND, and putting up a privacy fence so I wouldn't ever have to look at them again. I encountered lawyers (specializing in real estate), city planners, tax assessors, real estate professionals, and more, that did not actually know the laws but acted like they did. I'd send them an email quoting and pointing to those online references that contradicted their "opinions", and they would quietly slink away.
You are my hero, fighting the idiots in the dark. I at least had the light of the internet illuminating the truth (or at least the current truth) for me.
Frenchy
Good for you. This is another example of how a winning personality will always conquer adversity. Enjoy the house. JL
Now that's truly government at work for the people! My condolences and congratulations! Post some pics of the palace when complete!
If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
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