FYI, Festool prices go up April 1, (no joke) So if you have any Festool plans do it soon.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
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Replies
I was at a Woodcraft store earlier this week, looking at the Leigh Superjigs.
While there, I figured I gawk and dream, while looking at the $700 Domino.
I gawked, and I dreamed, and I noticed that the price was $750.
Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
you said:
"I was at a Woodcraft store earlier this week, looking at the Leigh Superjigs. While there, I figured I gawk and dream, while looking at the $700 Domino. I gawked, and I dreamed, and I noticed that the price was $750."So let me ask. If you met St. Peter and he said that if you'd like to spend an hour with God, it will cost $750, up from $700 last week, ----- would you agree to the price or go look for a better deal.MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,"So let me ask. If you met St. Peter and he said that if you'd like to spend an hour with God, it will cost $750, up from $700 last week, ----- would you agree to the price or go look for a better deal."I'd probably ask how God defines an hour...
BG,
"I'd probably ask how God defines an hour..."It is good to me a philosopher.Did you hear about the tired dyslexic theologian?
He stayed up all night contemplating the existence of a dog.Yuk yuk.
Have fun.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
I wonder what I should charge God to spend an hour with me.
d."I wonder what I should charge God to spend an hour with me."For you, I will give a discount.
Go in peace, my son. G.Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
'
"I was at a Woodcraft store earlier this week, looking at the Leigh Superjigs.
While there, I figured I gawk and dream, while looking at the $700 Domino.
I gawked, and I dreamed, and I noticed that the price was $750."
There are two flavors. The 700 one is just the domino one bit and systainer. The $750.00 one comes with the complete bit set and the other indexing thing. I got the $750.00 unit for the bits. I have yet to use the indexing jig. You will love if you use it once!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
The Domino will be $750 and the Domino Q set will be $800 after 4.1.08, this is not an April Fools joke. The Domino Systainer Assortment with all the cutters will be $250 after 4.1.08.
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
Yep, I know it will be 750 afte 4/1. All the better reason to go get it now!Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
Here's a link that details all the prices. Some jump more than others
http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=40104.1Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
That sounds close Bones, but I may have misunderstood.
The standard Dom comes with a 5mm bit, and the systainer plus the Dom itself.
The Q dom ($750 currently) comes with the dom, systainer, 5mm bit and the wing stops, plus the end stock alignment jig.
The jigs run $90 if purchased separately from the dom.
The domino assortment systainer gig though comes with all 4 bits + the 1300 dom assortment.
michael
Bruce do you stock any Systainers or Sortainers? Also, what is the sales tax in snow country? Below is a link with all the old and new prices.
http://info.mcfeelys.com/servlet/cc5?uJMLLtPkQSAQWVrLjjPqiHJquHgxHllQgLlVaVY
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
We do have a pretty good inventory, IMHO better than the other area distributors. But not nearly all of the Festool items, but we're working on it. Ordered stock generally come in within three days. Sales tax here is 6.5%, We're not paying for a Sports Stadium ;-)
Give us a call and we can check out inventory. Inventory moves very quickly so call ahead before making a trip. 1-800-872-2511Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
I asked my Boss about the systainers today. There is so large of an assortment that we don't carry any. But like I've previously said, We can special order anything Festool and have it in about three to four working days. A TSaw55, rotex150,ct22vac went out the door today to a happy camper.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Thanks Bruce, thats what I was thinking. Do you sell more Rotex 125 or 150 models? What is you and your co-workers preference?
Life is what happens to you when you're making other plans .
The Rotex 150's by far outsell the 125's. The extra 1" on the disc gives you a very stabil platform so it's much easier to maintain flat. And it very easily puts a belt sander in the dinosaur class in many ways. Discs cost less than belts, Superior dust collection, lighter and no gouging.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
How many did you buy? They might be good tools but I truly believe that they are overpriced
If I didn't have access to them for my personal use, I would definitely be getting a few. But will more than likely give some a new permanent home in the future. I can agree that there is sticker shock with Festool, But if you can save many hours of set up time, quicker and more accurate joinery, virtually chip and dust free mess, less measuring etc.etc. Festool is worth it in the long run.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Edited 2/24/2008 8:27 pm ET by BruceS
Have you seen the price on the new Kapex power miterbox. $1,500, I hope it cuts the wood by itself. That is a lot of money for a mitersaw.
I am considering the c12, but the cost does make me hesitate. My current drill died and now is the time to replace. I would appreciate any feedback from people who own or use them.
Thanks
Nate
Nate,
Festool makes some of the best powertools in the world but, drills are not their best product. I have their plungesaw, router and two sanders. I think their tool is very good, but, like everyone else they rely on Sanyo, Sony or Panasonic to make the batteries. Festool has not kept up with the battery technology. I have Panasonic drills (NiH 3.5 amphr 15.6V), Makita (Li-Ion 18V) and Makita (Ni-cad 18V) I reach for the Makita (Li-Ion) first, then the Panasonics and my buddy has the Festool drill and it cannot keep up with either. Whimpy batteries. The biggest difference is time, I never seem to charge my Li-Ion tools, have an impact tool as well in the Makita kit and a Bosch PS-20 little driver (maybe the sweetest little tool I own), they always seem to be ready and the charge lasts much longer. I have the Bosch at my cottage in northern MI and I came back this winter so the family could do some skiing and it was still charged after 4 months, my Panasonic Ni-MH was stone dead. I would get a Li-Ion tool of your choice. I got the Makita LTX-201 combo, but there are a lot of good tools out there. I just checked out the Ridgid Li-Ion at HD, I usually don't buy Ridgid tools, but the warranty on the thing is outstanding (lifetime battery replacement) got to be some catch.
Edited 2/25/2008 8:27 am ET by terrylee86
Nate,
I bought one when my craftsman batteries gave out and I love it.
Check out the following site for reviews:http://www.festoolusa.com/ProductDetails.aspx?ProdID=564178&id=3&tab=reviews
Thanks, do you know if standard hex bits will fit in the quick disconnect or do you have to use festool bits to take advantage of the feature? I asked the salesman at wood craft and he didn't know.
I've read quite a bit of discussion of that question on the Festool Users Group web site. So much so that I'm a bit confused at this point. If my memory serves, standard hex bits don't fit the quick release chucks (they will slide in just fine, but not lock). I believe I've read several posts where folks have described making alterations on the bits so they will lock. Now that I think about it, I believe there is an adapter that has the Festool quick release stem on one end and a collar that accepts standard hex bit stems. That may defeat the "quick release" advantage, however.Hope this helps.
<sarcasm/on> You mean that Festool drills are made to only accept Festool bits? Shocking! <sarcasm/off>
I can't believe you Festoolies put up with the way they rape you on accessories after you have already paid a dear price up front. I know, I know, best tools ever made, touched by the hand of god, yada, yada...
Hey Jeff, does that Woodrat only work with a Woodrat router that only works with Woodrat bits that only cuts holes for Woodrat tenons and is hooked up to a Woodrat vacuum, err... I mean "chip extraction system" (TM-Festool 1998, parts to make functional sold separately)?
Rob
"I can't believe you Festoolies put up with the way they rape you on accessories after you have already paid a dear price up front."
Kind of like the cost of parts and service for a Mercedes or BMW? That's the mindset, by the way. It's not that they're purposefully out to get you. They start with the goal of designing and manufacturing the best X possible. Standardization and interchangeability don't matter much--if conforming to an industry standard in any way compromises the goal, then the standard gets tossed.
-Steve
Steve,
Do you really believe that they can't make any of their tools to use any other bits or shop vacs or anything that they don't sell without compromising quality?
I don't blame them for doing it. I'm a died in the wool laissez-faire capitalist. That also means I believe that a free market controls itself. The way that works in this situation is if consumers demand that they don't have to pay $173 for a 16' vacuum hose to hook up their $750 Domino to their $450 vacuum. They can and will gouge their customers as much as the customers allow. It's a rare and neat trick though that they are able to get their customers to defend them for doing it.
Rob
"Do you really believe that they can't make any of their tools to use any other bits or shop vacs or anything that they don't sell without compromising quality?"
That's not what I said. It's not that they can't do it; it's that it basically doesn't occur to them that there is a possibility that anyone would even want to do such a thing. It's a mindset that pervades German engineering, from cars to cameras to woodworking tools. It's not that they're purposefully thinking "How do I make the most money off of this idea?" It's that they're purposefully not thinking, "How do I cut costs so that I can sell this for less?" or, "How do I make this work better with existing standards?" They ignore the cost. They ignore interchangeability. Those are simply not priorities in their quest to make the best X ever made.
This is one of the reasons that the Daimler/Chrysler merger failed, by the way. The design philosophies of the Chrysler and Mercedes engineers were so completely different that they couldn't work together.
-Steve
FYIThe drills come with a regular keyless "one handed" chuck also.
Edited 2/27/2008 8:33 pm ET by sgwilliams
"hands free" or did you mean "keyless" ???
Sorry,
keyless and "one handed"
Steve,
it's that it basically doesn't occur to them that there is a possibility that anyone would even want to do such a thing.
I'm sorry but I can't agree with your logic. This same mindset also caved in many major computer manufacturers back in the 80s. Wang Labs, Digital for openers. They basically refused to acclimate their products into the new rage at the time, that being Open Architecture. By the way, these were not German based companies.
Let's face it as one has said before, if the customer is willing to pay the steep prices, we'll charge the steep prices. To me this whole Festool thang is a bunch of German baloney.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 2/27/2008 7:45 am ET by KiddervilleAcres
Funny I thought that I could buy Oil and gas, and new wiper blades, and new tires and such from just about anyone for a BMW or MB. Also as far as I know the mechanic is generally working with the same wrenches and other tools (with a few exceptions that almost all cars have). And the Car will drive on the same road as a GM and park in the same garage. And I can get it washed at a standard car wash.
So the idea that they just happened to design something that does not work with any standards available today is a joke. We German types (my dad got off the boat thank you much) know what we are doing. SO if they decided to make the drill not work with the bits that (say my Bosch sp?) works with they did this knowing full well what that meant. And the only good reason to do it was to be able to make sure you buy from them.
I like the free market, And I tend to think that Apple is a better computer, but I will not buy from them because I do not like to be forced to stay with basically one supplier. I did that back in the day as a computer consultant and I did not like it then and do not like it now.
It is one thing to make a tool that has to have special parts, but they do this with parts that could be standard to the industry and get the job done just as well. IT is like you are buying the tool (at a premium price) and then they are charging you rent in the form of the acc. for it.
Doug Meyer.
PS: As for the Chrysler bit, they never tried to make it work. You do not try to make a merger work buy replacing pretty much anyone with any authority with people from one company and then do things the way of only one of the two companies and call it a merger. That is a take over. And in a take over the only people to blame if it fails are the people that did the taking over. SO saying it was a failure because of the way the Germans design things is just not the case. IT was a failure because it was about as much a Merger as when the Germans "Merged" with France in WWII. Remember the Germans do two things very well. Engineering and invading France :)
The direction this thread took stems from a question about whether standard hex stem bits would work in the Festool C12 drill quick release chuck. I believe the answer is they will fit that chuck, but they don't lock. The quick release chuck is one of 5 chucks available for this drill (which can easily be popped on and off the drill body.... great feature). One of those chucks is a standard hand tightening version that works just like every other cordless drill on the US market. Standard hex stem bits work with that chuck just like every other cordless drill. Therefore, Festool has NOT made a product that doesn't work with standard hex bits, it's just one of their specialty chucks is designed to work with their bits. Folks can complain about their business model, the cost, whatever. No one is making anyone buy Festool products. There is nothing personal going on here. Get over it.
I should make it clear that I'm not criticizing the German engineering philosophy. It is what it is, you're free to take it or leave it.
And lest anyone suggest that I'm in any way Germany-bashing, a quick look at my username should reveal my German roots.
As for the parts and service for a BMW or Mercedes-Benz, yes, much of it is off the shelf (just as I'm sure that most of the fasteners used to build Festools are off the shelf). But take a look at the annual Consumer Reports auto issue and see the "cost of ownership" ratings for those vehicles.
-Steve
> We German types (my dad got off the boat thank you much) know what we are doing.> about as much a Merger as when the Germans "Merged" with France in WWII. Remember the Germans do two things very well. Engineering and invading France :)That has to be the most crass, insensitive comment I've ever read on this forum and I'm not even french.
First off Learn to take a joke.
Second point is, Germany HAS invaded France twice.
Third point is that most of the upper management types in Chrysler were replaced buy those from Germany this was not a merger. It was a take over. Thus it was in effect an invasion. IF it failed it was/is the fault of those that did the taking over. Thus the point of said Joke. (Keep in mind that while Germany may have invaded France twice, they ended up losing both wars.)
4th Point. If this is the most crass thing you have read on this forum you must not read all that much on said forum. It is not even close to being the worst.
5th Point. The butt of the Joke is the Germans not the French.
Doug Meyer
I don't think you've made a fair assessment regarding the German talent for invading France. The Germans are not particularly good at invading that country over any other, it's the French who deserve all the credit: they have an extraordinary gift for surrender.
Ah, Come on now. At one time or another The English, French, Canadians, Russians and Germans have been allies or enemies of the USA. Now is the time for all to be Allies. There are greater enemies!Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
And the enemy is EZ smart!
:)
Well, it takes more than military might to make a nation great. In fact I'm not sure military might is required at all. The French have their wine, food, literature, Paris, history, and the Roubo bench :) I'd much rather live in France than Germany. Still, one can pick on them about their less than heroic performance in WWII.
The French underground sure stuck their necks out for our downed pilots and escaped POW's.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Undoubtedly, but they were vastly outnumbered by those who collaborated.
"I'm sorry but I can't agree with your logic. This same mindset also caved in many major computer manufacturers back in the 80s. Wang Labs, Digital for openers. They basically refused to acclimate their products into the new rage at the time, that being Open Architecture. By the way, these were not German based companies."
I don't understand how that's disagreeing with my logic. Yes, Wang and Digital couldn't make the philosophy work (and IBM used to be very much that way, too). I never said that the practice was limited to German companies, nor did I say that every German company practices it. It happens to be pretty endemic with German companies, but there are exceptions. And, as you've noted, it happens with non-German companies, too. I was involved in a collaboration with a Belgian company several years ago that was very much that way.
Whether or not a company can make the philosophy work is a separate issue. The great German engineering companies of the last century (BMW, Daimler-Benz, Carl Zeiss, etc.) were able to make it work for a long time, but they're all now facing serious pressure from Japan. I'm sure that Festo will eventually face the same kind of pressure. The reason that the Wangs of the world failed is that they couldn't sustain the perception that their stuff was materially better than the rest, something that the Germans seem to be better at cultivating.
-Steve
Steve,
We could debate these issue till the proverbial hell freezes over and for what gain? Yes it could be a rousing debate but not unlike those preceeding it and I'm not fond of the Cafe which is where this debate most likely belongs.
We all have valid points and with all due respect to the OP I will bow out as we're in perilous danger of hijacking his original intent. I worked at Wang for over 15 years and have much knowledge as to its faliure, but that's not appropriate for me to discuss.
Best Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
You are correct in the fact that there is an adapter for the quick release chuck that will hold standard bits. The reason for this adapter is that Festool drills have so much torque that they will break the standard bits that have the locking flute in the shank. Festool bit shanks are much longer than standard shanks for that reason because they need the extra strength.Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
I have the C12 and like it very much. I got it with the NimH batteries; they hold their charge well, and recharge quickly.
I got the complete set (optional offset drive, right-angle drive, etc). I've used them, they each solved nearly unsolvable problems.
It won't fit in the typical drill holster
The offset chuck only works with hex-based bits. Mine will take either US (inch std) or Festool (metric std) bits.
The Centrotec chuck (at least on mine) will only take metric std hex bits (they are a German company... just like 'we' used to only sell stuff in inch std dimensions. Ever try to buy a 1/2-20 bolt in Singapore). I think a judicious bit of filing would get an inch-std bit to fit.
Getting the chuck sufficiently tight on large diam bits ain't easy (1/2" chuck)
Would I buy another? I'd wince, but yes.
Edited 2/27/2008 1:29 pm ET by EdHarrow
Ain't the falling dollar great? My Tucker Vise I want from Lee Valley went up $50 last month
Gentlemen, I've said this time and time again. The Domino is a one trick pony. If you want to invest that kind of money, do it with a Woodrat. It will cut the same loose tenons as a Domino, and then do so much more. Look into the 'Rat, you will love it once you get it up and running. I promise.
Jeff
Jeff,
Have you heard the news!?
FetishTool, a new company, is coming out with the Complete Automated Woodworking System (CAWS) that they're crowing about. All you need to do is place a picture of the piece on the included scanner, input the dimensions on the keyboard and the machine builds the whole thing without operator intervention.
They have two versions:
The Nerd version for folks with a computer. You just need the peripherals and they are connected via a RS-232C 110 character per second asychronous port.
The Professional version comes complete with computer and all peripherals.
And perhaps the best news of all is the price: The Nerd sells for $249.99 and the Professional sells for $749.99.
The new tool development is being funded by Ikea and Mattel with subsidies provided by Play Dough and publicity provided by Hoopla International!
Scheduled elease date is set for February 28th.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Hey, wait a minute. I thought that Sears already had the patent on that with the CompuCarve!?
Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA
Jeff:While I understand and accept why you might characterize the Domino as, "a one-trick pony" I believe, however, that it's advantages stem not from WHAT it does but HOW it does it. The hand-held form factor is the defining attribute that sets it apart from an horizontal slot mortiser that has been around since god's dog was a puppy and the Wood Rat. The latter seems to be an excellent machine BTW.But you cannot use a "rat" to put slots in the end of a 7 foot board. The ease of set up and ability to make repeatable slot mortisers very quickly define the Domino's value. For certain applications and uses it is arguably the quickest solution (not always important).Regards,Hastings
A 'Rat will easily and effectively cut slots into the end of a 7' board. You just have to mount the 'Rat on a really tall wall ;-)I own a 'Rat, And I've yet to encounter a situation where I thought a Domino would work much better and simpler. However, I don't cut many mortices in the ends of telephone poles.
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