A customer has asked me about using engineered flooring on two staircases that are currently carpeted. I suspect that the existing stairs have plywood treads and risers under the carpet and pad. The top landing is Pergo and the bottom is “real-deal” hardwood.
Any thoughts on this?
Thanks
Replies
When stair treads are fully exposed, there is the issue of the "nose" of the treads. With engineered hardwoods, the top surface could be made to look quite nice.
But what do you do with the nose and the edge of each tread? How do you round the front edge (so it can be walked up/down in bare feet) while still showing the veneered surface on that rounded edge?
I'll bet that if you come up with a solution that makes the finished staircase look good, you'll find that the cost (materials and labor total) will meet or exceed the cost of full hardwood treads.
And, for what it's worth, I'd guess that the existing treads under the carpet are not plywood. They are probably 5/4 pine, with rounded noses. The risers might be ply, but I doubt it.
I posted the question after receiving an email from the customer. They're replacing the wood stair rails and bannisters with a metal framed, tensioned wires system and I guess they've decided to eliminate the existing carpeting while they're at it. I'm meeting with him later this week to look things over and give him my opinion.Personally, I suspect that solid treads and risers will be the only realistic solution, but he asked about engineered flooring so I'll be ready to answer his questions.I would be surprised to find that the existing treads and risers weren't plywood. The house was built in the early 70's and that's how it was done in those days if the stairs were to be carpeted.
Dave,
What Pergo flooring is there? If it's one of the older ones they can be very difficult to find. I've been looking for some Pergo PO-2100 birch plank Pergo for quite some time now with NO success.
Also, is the flooring at the top and bottom of the stairs the same kind of wood, i.e. maple on bottom and top floors? If they're different then what do you use for the stairs?
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob -It's a tri-level house with real oak hardwood in the foyer. The upper (living) level has an oak-looking Pergo in the landing and hallways, and all the rooms are either carpeted or tiled. I suspect that the Pergo is the old glued together stuff.Another set of carpeted stairs goes from the foyer down to a door into the garage. I must have made a hundred trips on those stairs last year when I did all the cabinets in the house, but right now, I couldn't tell you what flooring is on the lower landing. - lol
Use hardwood.
Laminate is too slick and will not hold up as well as hardwood as you are unable to repair it successfully should a tread become damaged. The wear layer is paper thin.
How will you treat the ends? Do they make laminate returns?
One of the greatist ills foisted upon the homebuyer is laminate flooring.
F.
I still haven't scheduled my meeting with the HO, but I'm 99% certain that only real-deal wood will work. I'm also 99% certain that he'll agree. He's an artist with a great sense of style and appearance, but is "practicality challenged" - to put it in polite terms. - lol He had several great ideas while I was building their cabinets. Some of them got implemented although it pushed my design/build abilities and I probably wouldn't have done on my own. Other ideas he had just wouldn't work and he was cool with it after I explained why.I don't agree that laminate flooring is all bad. I put ~600 sq. ft. of glue-together Pergo in my family room, kitchen, and office 10 years ago and it's held up just fine and still looks good. Sure, "real" hardwood flooring is probably best, but engineered/laminate flooring can be an acceptable substitute.
Edited 2/3/2009 12:57 pm by Dave45
Good luck.F.
You may find that at least some makers of engineered hardwood floors offer matching finish stair parts, among the various trim accessories that they offer. That could give you the proper nosings and the like.
I guess I should have used all caps in my earlier post where I said that I was 99% certain that real hardwood would be the answer for this job. As I also said, the customer asked about engineered flooring so I owe him an answer about it.My original post was to find out what experiences anyone has had (good or bad) so I could give the customer as much info as possible.
Engineered hardwood and laminates are not the same. I am sure you understand this, but I think some do not. The benefit of an engineered product here will be the reduction in thickness and the change in rise at the top/bottom treads. They claim you can sand/refinish engineered stuff 3 - 5times, but I doubt it happens too often considering how often we all like to renovate. The nosings and returns will suffer due to the thickness reduction. I re-did some treads recently with a 3/8" thick product and I sure dont think the nosing transition from 3/8" to 3/4" will hold up to normal wear and tear over the years.
Just my .02
Brad,
You alluded to something I'm surprised no one else has mentioned so far - the change in riser height that would occur if something is put on the existing treads.
Building code says risers shouldn't vary by more than 3/8 of an inch in height from one step to another. Anything more than that variation is considered a tripping hazard (though many people would say even that much variance isn't safe).
So, if the original poster doesn't feel like doing the job in laminate or engineered wood flooring, mention of the tripping hazard created might bring a satisfactory end to the discussion.
Yes, the stairs could be reconfigured to accept laminate or engineered wood flooring on the treads. But it would mean reconstructing the entire support system. Not worth the work in other words. And yes, some laminate flooring is 3/8 inch or maybe even a bit under that. But still...
Finally, the situation involved in dealing with the edges of the laminate on the treads is probably going to wind up being the death knell of this idea. In human history there doesn't seem to have been any good way discovered to do this so the edges don't shatter or fall apart. On the other hand, solid hardwood treads have a good track record in this regard...
ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
I'm not terribly worried (so far, anyway) about changes in tread height. The stairs currently have carpet and padding and the last step onto the Pergo at the top has always "felt" a bit short to me. I'll know more when the carpet/padding is pulled up.
The standard in the IRC heights is 3/8" between the tallest riser and the shortest. Could be a major factor if the stair project is inspected. If not, it would still be a safety factor, and a liability issue for the builder if someone should happen to slip and fall. Here is a good link for stair requirements based on the IRC 2006 code edition: Not all localities use this particular code, but all are relatively similar.
http://www.stairways.org/pdf/2006%20Stair%20IRC%20SCREEN.pdf
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