Replies

1. 
   JohnWW | Oct 14, 2009 04:06pm | #1

   Rubber cement contact adhesive, such as Pliobond is the usual adhesive for neoprene, epoxies as you've found out, are generally ineffective.. Beyond Pliobond try to find out what the state of the art adhesive is for shoe repair. What does Hume recommend they're the experts and they sold you the part.

   John White
   Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007
1. 
   frankburns | Oct 14, 2009 04:27pm | #2

   Hi John - thanks for responding.
   Hume (not suprisingly) wants to do the repairs themselves and therefor are not communicative re materials & process.Re rubber cement - gee, I've used that for veneer application but it never struck me as anywhere near strong enough for a silver dollar sized seat mounting. Have you tried this? Did you prep the neoprene in some way ?Frank

1. 
   JohnWW | Oct 14, 2009 05:28pm | #5

   The neoprene should be cleaned of with alcohol, then naphtha, and then a water based cleaner to be sure that everything that can be removed is off the rubber. The molded part will have a "parting compound" on it that was used to keep it from sticking to the mold and you need to get it off to assure that the adhesive will stick.Contact adhesive has plenty of strength when carefully used but this sounds like a questionable design where style trumped engineering.John White
   Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998 to 2007

1. 
   frankburns | Oct 14, 2009 05:50pm | #6

   Thanks John - that all makes sense. Thoroughness!!!
   Frank

2. 
   Shoemaker1 | Oct 14, 2009 04:34pm | #3

   If you can find a shoe repair!!
   ask if the have any cement for vinyl soles, ie Helmiplast, Duall 88, Barge super stick

   Most of these are like a regular contact cement, but they need to dry and then warmed with a heat gun then pressed till cool. A quick wipe with acetone should not hurt the neoprene just don't soak it.

1. 
   frankburns | Oct 14, 2009 04:42pm | #4

   Hi Shoemaker1,
   you're the second fellow who suggested this area of inquiry! OK, I'll check it out. Thanks
   Frank

3. 
   rwjiudice | Oct 15, 2009 12:29am | #7

   I purchased a classic Eames lounge chair (with ottoman) about 10 years ago. At that time I had to wait because production had been put on hold because the neopreen things were becomming separated from the aluminum braces / walnut veneer plywood back. If I recall, production of the chairs was transferred to another 'manufacturer' and that's when the problem started. Production was delayed about 18mo til the adhesion problem was solved.

   I finally was able to buy a chair and it's been no problem but it sounds like the chairs in question (being repaired) may have been in that window of defect. ?

   I would be tempted to write to the Herman Miller company who own the design copyrights to the chair and state the problem. They are a an upright company and maybe can source a fix for you.

   Do a Google search on Eames Chair repair.. There a a lot of hits on this problem with "some" good info on repairing. Good luck  

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   Edited 10/14/2009 5:32 pm ET by rwjiudice

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   Edited 10/14/2009 5:33 pm ET by rwjiudice

   
   

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   Edited 10/14/2009 8:09 pm ET by rwjiudice

1. 
   frankburns | Oct 15, 2009 03:08am | #8

   Thanks rwjiudice

4. 
   geppetto425 | Oct 15, 2009 04:43am | #9

   These are pretty tricky to repair. These are wonderful chairs and very comfortable but that mounting plate is an obvious problematic design flaw. Overtime the neoprene hardens and loses it's flexibility. They come apart every 15 years or so. Herman Miller is constantly trying different epoxies. I would strongly suggest staying away from it and sending it to Herman Miller (http://www.humemodern.com) and have them fix it. Considering these chairs are worth several thousand dollars, whatever they charge is worth it, especially if you want to keep the resale value AND, even more important, avoid possible litigation if it breaks and someone gets injured!!! If someone ever brings me another one to repair I'm going to pass on it and tell them to send it to Herman Miller! HOWEVER this is what I wound up doing before I knew better:

   I bought some neoprene washers, and epoxied them to some wood. One with PC7 epoxy from the hardware store and the other with Bostik 7522. I let them dry for three days and then tried to pull them loose and see which one was stronger. Quick drying 5 minute epoxy just isn't as strong as the longer drying stuff.

   The Bostik 7522 was a little bit stronger and also dried not quite as hard as the PC7 so I think it will give a little with the stresses of the chair. I also put new 1/4" dowels in each mounting pad, countersunk partway into the chair panel. You have to be very careful not to drill all the way through!

   A couple of other things to consider: the epoxy must be flexible to allow for different coefficients of expansion and contraction between the wood and the neoprene. There are many different types of Neoprene. I got the Bostik 7522 from these folks:

   GLOOBIE GLUE
   888-465-4570
   Rita Zoch
   Ordered Bostik 7522 from this company

   After I repaired this chair I found this company over in England that repairs them. They will sell you new mounting plates and special epoxy:
   [email protected]
   011-44-1296-682994 (remember there is an 8 hour time difference!)
   Pads are apx $68 and have a metal backing plate now. Glue is $58
   (This is the way to go if you can't afford to send it to Herman Miller)This is what he wrote to me:

   Dear JB Jones,
   It's not a trade secret exactly but you will find Herman Miller has used
   many different types of adhesive over the years. In my opinion you will have not have much success gluing old mounts back in place. They will have failed because the rubber has deteriorated. New shock mounts (the real ones, that is) have a steel glue face so you are gluing steel to wood and not rubber to wood. Rubber is notoriously difficult to bond successfully. I sell the correct glue and it costs 30 UK pounds for a 50ml syringe + applicator gun and nozzles. However, it will probably not work on old mounts.

   You could try PC7 this is a sticky grey epoxy that will bond anything. It is
   messy and in my opinion not a good thing to use. However, all the experts in the USA speak highly of it so it must work I guess.

   Tip: preparation is probably as important as the adhesive.

   Good luck.

   Best regards, Graham

   (Also see Furniture Society Forum, topic #831 or here is another long forum about repairing this chair that I just found:
   http://www.furninfo.com/forum/message_view.asp?TID=8202)
   Here is an exerpt from this forum that you should check into....

   Reply from Jack Mormon
   8/27/2005 2:29:00 AM
   Glad to see a crowd with shock mount problems. Misery loves company. I successfully (after several failures) found the proper materials and techniqe to make this repair if the rubber shock mount is in useable condition. The only glue I could find to work is "E6000 INDUSTRIAL STRENGTH Multi Purpose Adhesive." It is available from TAP Plastic which is a chain in California and hopefully has a web site. It's made by Eclectic Products, Inc., Pineville, LA. 71360 and the number is 800 767-4667. I cleaned the shock mount and mounting area of chair with a good sanding and wipe with lacquer thinner. I followed the product instructions for application BUT clamped with several C clamps with wood blocks per shock mount. I left the work clamped for 2 weeks indoors; dry and warm. After removing the clamps I kept the chair unused and the bonded area un -stressed for another week. The chair has seen 4 months of use with the bonded area getting stronger if anything. The dried adhesive appears to be very similar if not the same as the factory glue. Hope this info is useful and helps keep someone from running a couple of bolts through plywood.

   Sorry if you are totally confused now! Geppetto

1. 
   frankburns | Oct 15, 2009 05:24am | #10

   Bless you Geppetto!
   Thanks for sharing your research (this "we're all in it together" is one of the main reasons I got into woodworking).
   I do think this may be the answer. Small note of clarification - I'm not working on the 670 lounge chair rather the DCM (dining chair metal = 2 pieces of molded plywood and bent metal frame).All the best, Frank

1. 
   geppetto425 | Oct 15, 2009 07:31am | #11

   Yes, I realized after re-digging all this up that you have a different chair than the one I worked on but I hope the same principles and web sites apply. Good luck!

5. 
   KeithNewton | Oct 15, 2009 03:40pm | #12

   Frank, I am sure that if you contact some of the manufactures of cyanoacrylate adhesives, you can find one formulated for this.

6. 
   davcefai | Oct 15, 2009 09:50pm | #13

   I'm not familiar with the chairs in question and haven't really understood the problem.

   A possible line of investigation is the glue used for neoprene wetsuits. It seems to be very strong. It can be quite a struggle to take off a wetsuit and I have never seeb one part at the seams.

1. 
   Shoemaker1 | Oct 17, 2009 01:40am | #14

   Check out the links to the chairs. Seems like a good idea at the time....
   Good idea re glue for wet suits. I agree I have struggled with getting them on and off, and watched others do same, but I did want to see some of them split :)