Replies

1. 
   BG | Feb 02, 2009 04:54am | #1

   BCFred,

   I'm no expert either, and up until a year ago my thinking was similar to yours; powered mask, shop vacs, etc. About a year ago I bought the jet 1.5 with the canister filter. Everything changed.

   What I had not realized until I bought the Jet was just how dirty my air was. I had gotten used to the yellow fog and thought little about the consequences. I wanted the mask but could not pull the trigger...why was no one else using them? I also realized that a great DC did not mean that all the dust would be captured, frankly, the machines are poorly designed to give up the dust. If you think about the TS or BS with their spinning teeth and the DC is supposed to suck the dust from those teeth through air flow....yeah right!

   I didn't have 1 micron filters on my shop vacs, and even if I did, what a pain to keep them operating at sufficient efficiency. The key beauty of the Jet is the great big canister that is 1 micron and easily cleaned...and can filter all the air in my shop in 6 minutes, every 6 minutes. I've also bought 1 microns for the shop vacs for their occasional use (router, sanding).

   So I still have dust around but my air is cleaner. It's a good investment.

1. 
   BCFred | Feb 02, 2009 06:13am | #2

   Good point about why people aren't using the full masks.  One thing might be that most people don't have beards.  I know why I want to use one, but not why others wouldn't.  My shop vacs clearly don't pick up the fine dust even with two levels of filter and, like you say, they are a pain to keep clean (Read dirty for long periods of time :-)).  I think it is because they don't develop the necessary air flow to be effective.  Cleaning them aside, I've read in other posts that the idea behind vacuuming sawdust and dust collection are different in this way.  On the other hand, I can go out and buy a 1.5 or 2 horse system that will make things alot cleaner, but if it doesn't pick up the fine dust it would suck me into thinking things are OK.  So, the only way I can see of being safe is to use a full mask and discipline myself to put it on when I go into the shop.

   Filtering the air in your shop in 6 minutes, providing you're removing the fine dust, is way, way better than my extrusion fan, which despite its power isn't all that effective in getting the dust.  A 1 micron filter is better than I am doing now too.   Hmmm...food for thought!  It would be nice for things to be clean.  But I thought I read a post here describing an overhead filtration unit that filters out the fine dust.  For the life of me I can't find it though.  I like the idea so far because I think it would have fine filters, be low noise, run all the time and not extrude stuff back into the environment.  Fred  

1. 
   BG | Feb 02, 2009 01:48pm | #3

   BCFred,The problem with these solutions is many of the choices, effective alternatives, need to be specific to your own circumstances and we ain't engineers. The mask is great, if and only if, it fits you appropriately...so the beard may have to go. Likewise, the body comes with some good filtering equipment for particulate matter...not so well designed for chemicals. So what really works, and is important to us as individuals, is not easy to measure in our shop.I tend to look at things sideways, in other words, work flow and what is needed for dust. Mostly I make furniture. Therefore most of the heavy dust generation is in the beginning of the process. I put the DC as close to the big machines as possible and they work fairly well to keeping the air clean. The router and sanders use the shop vacs but most of my joinery and sanding is done be hand...so dust there is minimum. Meanwhile, I've converted to old quiet box fans with attached filters that go on with the lights to ambient air cleaners...they get dirty so they must be doing something. If I bought the mask and used it in the beginning and at the finishing phase I'd probably be better off but that is only a guess.As you can see, I'm kinda all over the place hoping the next step will be the last. It's kinda like sharpening; it can get expensive not knowing what your doing and visiting Woodcraft. :)

   Edited 2/2/2009 9:37 am ET by BG

1. 
   CHRISWALL | Feb 02, 2009 06:08pm | #4

   Hi

   I've been working on improving my dust collection system. I have a jet 1100 DC in the garage piped into the basement shop with 4" pvc. ( I hope toswitch to 6" in the future)

   What I have just added is a shop vac and mini Cyclone from clearvue. It's connected to a 2" pvc system that collect from the blade shrouds of my miter saw, RAS, band saw and router tables. When used together withthe Jet DC it works quite well.

   the week point is a good overarm collector for the table saw;mine doesn't work on bevel cut or with a sled

   Chris

2. 
   BCFred | Feb 02, 2009 06:48pm | #5

   I'm guilty of poor description BG.  I mean a powered respirator as described in Dec. 2008 FWW (No. 201).  The article favoured the Trend Airshield respirators.  I have tried various kinds of mask and I agree with the general opinion that you can't get a decent seal when you have a beard.  Glasses fogging up is also a problem.  You have to be a zen master to cut/sand/joint through fogged glasses.  Well, the beard isn't going, had it too long, and by all accounts neither are the glasses. 

   We do have different approaches to things in some ways it seems, and your dust system is further along than mine.  I do as much sanding and joinery as I can using power tools and supplement using hand tools where I have to.  With sanding I do the last stages by hand, for example.  I think it takes a long time to acquire the handskills to do good joinery, at least for me it is proving to be that way.  When I started woodworking as a hobby after I retired, I needed some fast results with renos and a couple of the initial projects I did.  This quite naturally made me approach power tools because I got better, faster results that way.  I like building jigs for my power tools and one has to consider the body as one ages as well.  Repetitive use can break a joint down pretty fast.  The time pressure is going down now, finally, and I'm slowly doing more stuff by hand.  Oddly enough, there are circumstances where I am starting to prefer a hand tool for a little more control.  Making lap joints is that way for me for some reason unless I'm making a whole whack of them.  Like I say though the operative word is "slowly".

   Your statement of kind of being all over the place sure applies to me.  I now have 3 tools for every job and  I really don't want to do that with dust control.   It's true that everyone has different needs and demands.   There is a lot of good information in the discussions that have taken place too.  But what I have found lacking is some kind of synthesis, i.e. some statement of which systems are best in which circumstances, or a description of the simplest system that works.  It's easy to find articles or discussions telling you about this tool or that tool, or this machine or that machine, or how you can make dovetails various ways.  But it can be hard finding out how to set up in the most beneficial way or finding which is the best approach, or tool for the job.  I have found only one book in our local library, for example, that takes this approach.  Oh well, mom never said it would be easy.  

1. 
   HJHMD | Feb 02, 2009 08:15pm | #6

   Fred,
   I feel your pain. I went through this recently and what I found helped me sort things out was purchasing a Dylos air quality monitor ( they have a good website ). I learned about it through one of Phil Thien's posts. It has really helped me understand what my current air situation is especially when using different tools. You will find that you must customize your approach to your situation such as tools you use and equipment you have. The air quality monitor really helps you understand where you are starting from and whether you are making progress. For example, it really helped me see what a large difference the overhead air cleaner made, so I run it all the time now as opposed to running it after I finished before.
   Good luck on your research, this is really an important issue and definitely worth the time to get it right. God only gave you one set of lungs, protect them. Jim

2. 
   BCFred | Feb 02, 2009 11:34pm | #7

   Thanks Jim, I'll certainly look into air monitors.  Sure makes sense to measure what you are dealing with :-)!  Right now I'm using my sinuses and they are consistent but not very precise.  Any recommendations as to which overhead air cleaners to look at or how to get into the literature on them?  There aren't very many adverts from the local tool places about them.  So, I'm probably going to have to go further afield.  Thanks again.  Fred

3. 
   HJHMD | Feb 03, 2009 04:41am | #8

   I use the JDS 750-ER . Very happy with it. It received a good write up but can't remember the source. But I did see that the Amazon reviews are good. Good luck !

4. 
   philip_r | Feb 03, 2009 08:10pm | #9

   The unfortunate thing about DC is that it isn't cheap... so it is easy to ignore and put your WW dollars somewhere else.  I too tried wearing a dust mask but I found them too uncomfortable to wear for long periods of time.  I'll share my personal DC story.  

   I didn't get a DC unit until I purchased a Performax 16/32, which requires DC.  At that point, I was able to borrow my dad's Jet 1 HP unit.  It worked pretty good... but quickly lost CFM, as the bag filled.  This worked well for a few years - though I quickly got tired of constantly emptying the bag to compensate for the CFM loss.

   At that point, I did a little research and decided to get a 1.5 HP unit, with a canister filter.  Fortunately, I was able to find one on Craigslist.org for $180.00 (Jet 1.5 canister- with remote)!  It was a HUGE upgrade.

   For the last year, I ran one 6" x 10' hose and reduced it, at the tool, to a 4" port.  This was an extremely effective method for most of my tools. 

   Last August, my wife and I moved and I went from a house with a 780 SF detached garage to a house with a 989 SF attached garage.  At that point, I decided that I would need to improve my DC ability so I didn't send a bunch of dust in to the house.  Bamo, I found a JDS 750-ER, on Craigslist.org, for $130.00!  It does a great job cleaning the shop air and I couldn't beat the price.

   Since last August, I've noticed that my two biggest dust producers are my lunchbox plainer and my TS.  The plainer is not a big deal since I plan to replace it soon.  However, since I just purchased my TS last March, I decided to look for a better solution.  I read many of the previous posts on this forum and decided to purchase an overarm blade guard w/ a DC port.  Unfortunately, Craigslist.org didn't have anything for me... so I had to purchase one from the store :0(  I ended up going with the Excalibur blade guard (tools-plus.com).  I went with the Excalibur because it gets great reviews and because I have one of their sliding tables, which I completely love.

   Anyway... I just installed it last week and have had a chance to run it through some of it's paces... and I am extremely pleased with its performance and I cannot belive that ot took me so long to purchase one. 

   I now have to use the wye off my DC and run two 4" hoses to the TS... one to the cabinet and one to the blade guard.  I am simply amazed at how much dust this thing picks up... though I am sure that I would get similar results with the other brands. 

   I keep looking on Craigslist for a cyclone... but I haven't had any luck :0(  someday...

5. 
   Buster2000 | Feb 03, 2009 10:33pm | #10

   I have to agree, dust collection is not cheap.  I started with a GI 2HP canister collector, great machine though I was usually pretty lazy about moving it around and would occasionally run tools without.

   I moved into a larger dedicated shop last year, and in the process of setting up shop I found a 2HP Oneida Cyclone on Craigslist.  $600 later it was in my shop.  (The GI is for sale if anyone is in the Calgary, AB area.)  This is where things got really expenisve.  The cyclone really calls for ducting, and it's not cheap.  While it's not idea, I've used HVAC fittings.  A fitting typically runs between $6 for an elbow, $15 for a wye, $15 for a blast gate.  Even the small amount of flex hose I've been using cost an arm and a leg...

   I connected the floor sweep, jointer, planer, and the base of the table saw (looking into overhead guards now).  The bandsaw is an afternoon off.  I still have three tools that need significant reworking to hook up collection (Miter saw, drill press, and router table).  I've decided to hold off on these until spring so I can do some 'real' woodworking projects...

6. 
   philip_r | Feb 03, 2009 11:02pm | #11

   lol, the cost of additional duct work is what prevents me from getting a Cyclone - I can swing $1,500 for a good tool.... but I'll have a tough time swinging an additional $1,500 for duct work... though I wouldn't be able to pass on a cyclone for $600 bucks... that's almost criminal!  

   This year's purchase is going to be a 15" spiral cutterhead planer.  Griz has two models that I have my eye on.  The cyclone will have to wait for another time...  

   Let the tool addiction continue!