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These are some general questions and hopefully I will get some good answers:
1) What’s that upper bag for on the dust collectors?
2) What’s the effective difference between a dust collector and shop vac?
I’ll be moving into a condo with a one car “wood shop” soon and I think I will need to control the dust to keep everyone happy. I don’t have a shop vac yet, so I have some options.
Here’s my equipment:
Shopsmith, jointer (w/ port), planer (w/o port)
The way I see it, I can buy a Shop Vac and have some versatility in using it to clean out cars and such. It won’t take up much shop room, but I’ll have to move it back and forth between the jointer and the Shopsmith. I will do most of my jointing at the beginning of the project, so there probably won’t be too much moving back and forth. I would like to find a nice, quiet model that I can attach to my router without too much fuss. (a DeWalt 621) The reason I mention that is because the Shop Vac brand models all have a permanent foot-and-a-half extension tube on the end of them that would make this a pain in the butt. I’ve read some good things about the Fein shop vacs, but they’re crazy expensive. That’s what led me to consider Dust Collectors. For the price of a $200 shop vac, I can get a Grizzly 1 HP Dust Collector and mount it to the wall out of the way. It’s only got one bag though… (hence my earlier question) I could also get the basic 650 cfm Jet floor model.
One other thing to consider is that if I get a dust collector and hook up PVC pipes everywhere, I will never be able to get a car in there to change the oil. I will keep my jointer against a long wall, the Shopsmith is on wheels, and the planer will live under the workbench unless it’s being used, so there is potentially room for a car in there with the right arrangement.
I will also still have to buy a cheap Shop Vac for cleaning cars and stuff.
I’d like to hear everyone’s opinion, especially people who are currently using a shop vac and people who have recently upgraded. Thanks, everyone.
Replies
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Have there been any recent magazine reviews/comparisons of shop vacs lately? How about any online ones I should know about? Thanks.
*The upper bag is for the fine dust, the lower compartment collects the chips. A Shop Vac does not move the volume of air needed for efficient dust collection. A vacuum cleaner will not be able to keep up with the dust produced by a power jointer and planer.Everybody needs a shop vacuum cleaner for the purposes you mentioned in your post. However, they are not a very good substitute for a bona fide dust collecting unit.
*Some people use shop vacs and seem to be happy with the performance (they probably aren't using big planers and the such). Others are not happy with that solution and have a dust collector. In my research I've found that the fundamental difference is that a dust collector is high volume and low pressure. A shop vac is just the opposite. In order to get lots of chips to be drawn through the system you need high volume.Do a search in the discussion boards for "dust collector" or "DC". You'll find tons of postings, esp. about what material to use to build the ducts for a DC system (PVC v. Metal of 4" v. 5")Best,Seth
*CStanford,You're all wrong about the upper bag on a dust collector. It's actually for extra storage of shavings when the lower bag fills up. :)(a "eureka!" moment which really happened just last week)Scottps Back to the thread, one can opt for flexible ducting rather pipes.
*Smaug:Here is good advice.1) Buy a shop vac for general cleanup and to hook up to your router as a secondary collection source.2) BUY A 2HP (MINIMUM) DUST COLLECTOR THAT MOVES ABOUT 1300 CFM.You will never, never, never, never, never regret it. It's the best $300 you can possibly spend.Believe me. It's a no-brainer.Cheers...Mike.
*That sounds like sage advice. One potential problem: I don't think I'm allowed to rewire a condo garage for the requisite 220 V required for a 2 HP dust collector. I do have a 115 V/15 A circuit for the garage door opener that won't be in use. Maybe I'll get a 1-1/2 or 1 HP dust collector and hook-er up to that... I just can't seem to convince myself that in a small shop like mine it would be worth the floor space to have a dust collector... I also don't really want to install permanent ductwork or anything because the condo board might just put the kabosh on my woodworking. In that case, I'd like to be able to move things around and park my car in there. With a 1-1/2 HP floor-model dust collector eating up real estate, that won't be possible. Then again, the board is more likely to put up a fuss if there is more dust around. It's kind of a tight spot I'm in; a Catch-22.Thanks for all the advice and please keep it coming.
*I recently bought a 1100 CFM Jet with a 5mu bag (which costs extra). What a difference in my shop and as an added benefit my hands don't get as dry as they used to and I very seldom use a dust mask any more.I have one 4" hose that I move back and forth between the TS and the jointer. I have a 4 to 3" adapter for my planer which I again move the hose to when I'm running it.I going to buy another 4" hose so I don't have to crawl under my TS to connect it, I'll just switch connections at the fan. The DC is portable, but I pretty well leave it in a central location. I have a Fein shop vac that I use for general cleaning and as dust collection for my floor belt sander. That doesn't work very well at all. The Fein is a great shop vac for general cleaning but just not enough air for the sander.There's no dust collection on my band saw, so when that is running, the air fills with dust. So after running the band saw, I run the DC for 5-10 minutes to clear the air. It does a great job.
*The 11/2 hp delta works fine for me in a small shop. It keeps ahead of the jointer and planer. A shop vac is better then sweeping around tools. A shop vac alone will not be suffficient.Frank
*Smaug,It is all about CFM. Shop Vacs have a lot of suction but at relatively low CFM (100-200). To efficiently collect dust you need lots of CFM and velocity. Be careful of free air CFM verses system CFM. A lot of manufacturers state the free air CFM. This is very different from the system CFM. Visit the two links below for some good info on system design.http://www.airhand.com/design.htmlhttp://www.oneida-air.com/TDF
*Frank,im jealous. I have the jet 650, puts out about 650 cfm. Its about 200 bucks now (cost me more but Ive had it along time) It does all I need but if I had to it over again I'd buy the 1 1/2 horse like Frank.
*I'm sure there are others, but the Oneida 1.5 hp, which is probably plenty for your needs runs on either 110 or 220.Seth
*Hi Smaug,I have the same problem as you in terms of space- my shop is a one car garage. I'd love to put a big honkin dust collector in there but I just don't know where it would fit. I'd have to get rid of my tablesaw - if I did that I probably wouldn't need a dust collector. I use a 4 1/4 horse shop vac (ridgid brand)- it does suck up the dust/shavings from my planer, jointer, sander and saw pretty good. The biggest complaint is the noise- it also fills up pretty quickly. I have a dust filtration system hanging from the ceiling to take care of the fine stuff hanging in the air. One thing that you might consider is one of those portable dust collectors that you can wheel around to whatever machine you are using. It would probably perform better than a shopvac and would likely make way less noise.
*I have to agree with Mike H.'s reply. Both have their benefits. With a shop vac you can pick up metal filings and such safely, which you would not attempt with a collector. I am also looking for a collector to purchase because the shop vac is so loud it hurts (purchased from THD) and I find myself not using it for "quick cuts" which defeats the purpose. The Fein Turbo III looks like a nice solution, automatically turns on, and is quiet! (also quite expensive). But overall might be a nice solution for a small shop.Regards,Bob
*Smaug,There is a review of small dust collectors (under $300) in the new issue of Wood magazine. The article is also available on line. i found it helpful; perhaps others will too.Tom
*I have used a delta dust collector,3/4 hp 600 cfm for several years, both in my shop and out on the jobsite. It has worked very well for me, but recently I replaced the cloth bag with the canisiter filter from Jet. It is like a shop vac filter only it works by collecting the dust on the inside, it improved the airflow quite a bit and does not put any dust in the air like the bags do when they inflate.I have it on a remote foot switch by my saw to turh it on. I also like the SS tank shop vac w/ the quiet motor and the cleanstream filter $30 but last [email protected]
*I've got the Grizzley two bagger DC. I believe it's 2hp and it runs on 120V. The Fein vac is the quietest one I know. Sure, it costs the earth, but it's worth your hearing. I know that we all wear hearing protection but it didn't used to seem important. Now I hear crickets 24/7 and I ask "What?" a lot. Don't compromise your hearing.BJ
*Since you are limited in space, consider the following: Purchase a 1 HP dust collector (Jet 650 or equivalent) and purchase a set of up grade bags from Penn State Industries ($50) These are 5 micron bags that are larger than the standard DC bags. They filter the dust better, but the larger bag area improves the performance of the DC. In your situation, you probable need to have the DC portable so you can move from machine to machine. I am currently working like that in my shop and other than the bother of moving the DC from machine to machine, it works fine. The upgrade bags work real well. If you haven't purchased a DC, consider the 1 HP Penn State unit which comes with the oversized bags and is rated at 850 cfm.
*smaugI'm new to this, and don't use shop often enough to justify dust collector. I use Shop Vac with connections to major tools AND I bought two small 2 gal vacs set up permanently at my two dustiest tools. I was more concerned about the fine dust in the air, than the mess on the floor, so I just bought an air filtration system to hang from the ceiling. It makes a BIG difference. I am planning to get a cyclone separator to improve capacity of my 8 gal shop vac. Also I see Shop Vac makes a wall mounted shop vac ($79) that would be good because it is out of the way.
*It's my opinion that the upper bag is to allow constant air flow as the lower bag fills up. I have on occasion replaced the lower bag with a plastic bag, with no noticible drop in performance. You need LOTS of air volume to remove chips when doing heavy planing. Must large shop vacs can suck the chrome off a trailer hitch, but can't deliver the air. I've tried them and they just don't do a very good job on something like a planer. Plus, their high pitched noise will drive you crazy.I have a question. Has anyone found a source for the DC fans/housings that is reasonably priced? Most woodworkers have spare motors laying around and could rig up a decent collector if they could find a fan and housing that didn't cost as much as a full DC.And yet another question. Has anyone ever made their own bags? I would like to have disposable bags since I do a lot of work with toxic woods. I presently have to wear what basically looks like a space suit when emptying the bags.
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