Replies

1. 
   BG | Sep 22, 2004 01:00pm | #1

   CBR,

   I really like Waterlox for that situation.  It gives the depth of an oil finish and very good protection for heavy use.  I apply with bare hands, about 5-6 coats.  The cost is a bit high especially if your not going to use up the whole can...I understand the shelf life is limited once opened.
1. 
   HowardAcheson | Sep 22, 2004 10:35pm | #3

   Which Waterlox? "Waterlox" is the company name. They make a number of clear finishing products. See http://www.waterlox.com/productsList.cfmHowie.........

1. 
   BG | Sep 23, 2004 12:10am | #4

   Howie,

   I use the Orginal Sealer Finish...recently on a mahogany desk for my daughter's off campus apartment.  The style was mission.  It really came off quite well...deep shimmer in the wood and a hard safe film finish..which I steel wooled with wax for a satin finish. 

   I used the balance of the can on a vertical file made of white and red oak..top and draw fronts only(waterlox), lacquer on the rest of the file....this did not come out as well...the depth of waterlox made the lacquer on the rest of the piece look cheap.  So I had to fiddle with some trans tint and lacquer to bring the piece into harmony..kinda.  

2. 
   jvs | Sep 23, 2004 12:39am | #5

   Agreed; Waterlox "original" is my favorite finish for cherry.  If time, $$, and availability are issues, one not to discount, though, is fast-drying gloss poly.  If applied and treated like "real" varnish, it looks and acts like real varnish.  A pro finisher friend (*always* handy to have) walked me through this for a bathroom vanity top made of 8/4 strips of edge-grain cherry, and the result is amazingly close to phenolic resin; indistinguishable in that lighting, and it was done and rubbed in two days (7 coats).  The protection offered is in the same ballpark, but it will take a lot longer to get there with Waterlox.  Don't tell anyone it's poly, and they will never know.

   /jvs

1. 
   BArnold | Sep 23, 2004 11:22pm | #6

   jvs,

   Which 'fast-drying' poly did you use?

   Thanks.Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting

   Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.

1. 
   jvs | Sep 25, 2004 03:36am | #7

   Eye-level-at-any-borg Minwax fast-drying gloss.  My friend uses something else, but the Minwax works fine.

   /jvs

1. 
   BArnold | Sep 25, 2004 11:10am | #8

   jvs,

   I've been using Minwax 'Fast-Drying' Gloss Poly and do well to get two coats a day, much less '7 coats and rub-out'.  What's the secret?  The label even says to wait 8-10 hours to re-coat.

   Thanks,Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting

   Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.

2. 
   jvs | Sep 25, 2004 01:47pm | #9

   That would be a head-scratcher; perhaps different stuff despite the name on the can, tem/humidity, and ignorance (mine) are all that I can think of. 

   My label is the same as your label, and the part number is k-4795-0000 for a quart can.  I'm in Northern Virgina and did it in a sunlit garage in late spring (mid-high 80s, medium humidity if I am remembering right).  The directions on my can say 3-4 hours for a re-coat.  I thinned the first by ~25% and replentished the mix by ~1/4 volume for the rest in light, brushed coats as soon as they were cured enough for nib-knocking at 220, which was more like 2-3 hours.  The can says 72 hours for traffic, and I actually may have done the rub (1000 followed by 2000 Abralon, lubed with water with a drop or two of dish detergent) on the third day.

   /jvs

3. 
   BArnold | Sep 25, 2004 03:03pm | #10

   Same stuff: Minwax Fast-Drying Poly - Clear Gloss.  Gallon can K-4792-0000 says 4-6 hours to re-coat.  I usually have to wait closer to 8 hours.  Maybe the humidity is extending drying time here in Florida.  After 3-4 hours, the finish is still too soft to de-nib.  Typically, I can put on a coat first thing in the morning and another in late afternoon; repeat the next day.  And this is with it thinned about 25% with MS.  I also tried the 'rubber' approach with about a 50/50 mix and it dried much faster, but I need more practice with that procedure.  Can I use naphtha in place of MS to shorten the drying time?Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting

   Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.

4. 
   jvs | Sep 25, 2004 05:06pm | #11

   Hmm... two things are strange here.  First, that the same name/similar part# (close enough to be explained by the container size) would have two different drying times specified in different packaging, and second that the humidity seems to be having that much of an effect.  You are also thinning for each coat, where I am using pretty much straight from the can after the third or so.  Weird.

   I will ask my friend if anything strikes him about this.  I can't remember the manufacturer of what he uses, but will find that out, too.  Some of the products he uses is hard-to-impossible to find in stores (at least around here), but almost anything should be available mail order, and you would have better access to that kind stuff than I would.  Can't even guess about naptha--low-odor MS works well enough that it never occurred to me to try.

   I looked on Minwax' site, and they list a "super-fast" poly with a drying time of 3-4 hours and a "fast" one with 4-6, but I checked my can again, and it says 3-4, "fast," and I had the part number right in my last post.  They do have a forum and a contact e-mail address if you want to pursue this over there, too.

   Best,

   /jvs

5. 
   jvs | Sep 30, 2004 07:33pm | #12

   Sorry, Bill--nothing actually helpful from my friend.  For this, he actually uses the regular HD Minwax "Fast Drying" stuff (cost is a wash after shipping); his dry times are closer to mine than your 8 hours (but said that I was probably pushing it), and had no idea about naptha.  He did say that humidity can stretch cure times as dramatically as temperature, but didn't know what the curves might look like.  His cure times in the in a heated finishing room were as good or better than mine.

   Were you able to get anything useful from Minwax support?

   /jvs

6. 
   BArnold | Sep 30, 2004 10:29pm | #13

   jvs,

   I haven't taken time to check with Minwax directly.  Since the drying times I seem to get are comparable to the 'advertised' times, I doubt I'd get much information from them.  I'm getting good input just reading the Knots posts and also reading Jeff Jewett's book 'Complete Illustrated Guide to Finishing'.

   For most of the items I build I prefer a warm, natural look so I start with a couple of base coats of 50/50 BLO/MS.  Then top with polyurethane for durability.  I've started experimenting with rubbing on very light coats of poly thinned 50/50.  While this takes a good deal longer because of the number of coats required, there is much less problem with dust nibs and bugs.  If I continue to build up a finish like this, the drying time is less of an issue -- total time may be slightly more, but I'll give that if it's what it takes to get a particular finish.

   Regards,Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting

   Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.

7. 
   wendy1 | Sep 30, 2004 11:40pm | #14

   hi,

   Just wondering.. what exactly is BLO/MS? I've been having problems with dust nibs. I applied a coat of poly then let it dry overnight. Sanded very lightly with 400 grit wet/dry aluminum paper. Checked it over with my the palm of my hand to make sure it was smooth. Then applied a 2nd coat of poly. But the finish isn't as smooth as I'd like. Would applying a 3rd 4th coat help? I'm thinking 2 coats is pretty minimum. I was kind of rushed for time.

   Wendy

8. 
   BArnold | Oct 01, 2004 12:06am | #15

   Wendy,

   BLO = Boiled Linseed Oil; MS = Mineral Spirits.

   If you add some type of varnish (polyurethane, for instance) to the mix, you get a basic 'Danish Oil'.  A typical ratio is 1/3 each of BLO, MS & poly.  Lots of other combinations you will learn along the way also.

   Regards,Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting

   Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.

2. 
   jackplane | Sep 22, 2004 08:31pm | #2

   With kids, polyurethane would be my first choice.