Replies

1. 
   RickL | Apr 23, 2008 09:56pm | #1

   You can put anything that has the same taper in the spindle. I think you have some issues with a burr or dirt. They do make special reamers for cleaning the inner spindle and are priced reasonably.  A small spot of blue loctite might be enough. Something isn't seating right in the spindle. a good tap of the taper should hold it good enough to drill steel. Fix the problem.

2. 
   JohnWW | Apr 23, 2008 11:48pm | #2

   Your drill press may release the MT arbor by driving a tapered key into a slot in the spindle, in which case the MT arbor needs to have a small flat tang on the end of the taper for the key to bear on. The MT2 taper from your lathe, if it doesn't have the same tang, and it probably does not, will later be difficult to remove from the spindle of the drill press.

   As another poster has already stated the chuck should be a very tight fit on the end of the arbor, it can probably be fixed. The other post mentioned a reamer, but that is for the long MT, not the short Jacob's taper in the back of the chuck. The surfaces of the tapers have to be smooth and dirt and oil free for a tight fit. A few sharp raps on the face of the chuck, with the jaws fully withdrawn should give you a slip free fit if the tapers are in good shape.

   John White

1. 
   SequimBob | Apr 24, 2008 08:13pm | #3

   Thanks for your suggestions.  My drill chuck has been in my drill press for several years without any problem.  I have drilled steel and wood repeatedly.  It was only when drilling deep into the maple that the drill chuck released from the JT with a squeal.  My only thought was that a slight amount of additional friction from the large forstener bit in hard wood might overcome the friction fit on the JT.

   My drill press has a slot in the drill spindle that allows a tapered drift (I presume that this is the key) to go into it to release the MT quill.  I did not think (and have not yet tried) to put in the chuck from the lathe in the shaft but I suspect that the tapered drift would still release this chuck from the shaft.  Even if it doesn't, I don't see how there would be a problem with using the lathe chuck on the drill press, although the current chuck is a better model. 

   My only other thought is that I have an older Taiwan drill press that might have some slight wobble when using a longer drill bit and extending the spindle over 3".  This might be accentuated by the mass of the forstner drill head.  Is there any way to check this safely?  I don't want the drill bit flying around if the chuck separates again.  Currently, this separation has been contained in the hole in the wood.

1. 
   flairwoodworks | Apr 24, 2008 08:27pm | #4

   Bob,

   I had the same problem with my new 17" Steel City drill press (for woodworking), which I retrofitted with a keyless chuck.  I cleaned the tapers with mineral spirits before and used a deadblow to seat the chuck in the drill press.  It held fine until I was drilling large holes with a forstner bit (I don't remember what the material was).  So I gave the chuck another couple whacks, and that held for one or two holes before coming loose again.  I figured out that I could "press" the chuck against the table using the feed arms (the three "spokes") to seat the chuck.  But the chuck still kept coming out.  It's okay right now, but I haven't drilled any large holes recently.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com

    - Success is not the key to happines.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

1. 
   Tinkerer3 | Apr 25, 2008 06:23am | #11

   The next time it comes loose, try heating the chuck on the kitchen stove - could use a propane torch.  Then with a glove put it on the quill and give it a good whack with a two by four.  If it is clean and of good fit, I think it will make a world of difference.

1. 
   flairwoodworks | Apr 25, 2008 09:08am | #12

   I think that  I've misrepresented my problem.  The chuck AND taper were coming out of the column.  As metal expands when heated, I want to heat the column and insert the chuck with adapter, correct?  Good thinking outside the box.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com

    - Success is not the key to happines.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

2. 
   Tinkerer3 | Apr 26, 2008 04:20am | #13

   I'm not really clear with all your technical terms but you would want to heat the female fitting as it would expand more that the male fitting even if they were both heated to the same  temp.

3. 
   [email protected] | Apr 26, 2008 05:02am | #14

   Use dry ice to cool the taper on the chuck before inserting it, if you want the temperature shrink fit. 

4. 
   rsaunders | Apr 26, 2008 11:23am | #15

   That's a much better suggestion. The yo yo's suggesting heating the parts look like a recipe for turning the lube on said parts into something other than a lubricant. A clean morse taper has more than enough torque capability to deal with forstner bits."There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters."
   -- Daniel Webster

2. 
   saschafer | Apr 24, 2008 08:35pm | #5

   Are you sure that the lathe chuck isn't also assembled with a Jacobs taper? ;-)

   How large a hole are you trying to drill? What drill speed are you using? The Jacobs taper is designed to transmit quite a bit of torque, so it should be adequate for the task. If you're drilling at reasonable rotational and feed speeds, and the taper isn't holding, it's almost certain that there is a problem with cleanliness (hopefully) or actual damage to one of the surfaces (a scratch deep enough to raise a burr, for example).

   -Steve

    

1. 
   SequimBob | Apr 24, 2008 09:07pm | #7

   Thanks for the reply.  I haven't yet examined the lathe chuck since it came assembled.  I have seen ads also for some chucks that screw together to the quill.

   I'm drilling a 1 1/2 inch hole with a Forstner bit into hard maple.  I don't think that there is a problem with a scratch in the JT either since it now has been wiped fairly clean with all of the friction release cycles.  I haven't measured the size of the JT in the chuck, but it looks like about 1/2 or 5/8 inch in a 1/2 inch capacity chuck.  The quill is from the original drill press which had a 5/8 chuck mounted on it.  I am using what is listed (from the belt configuration) as 1K rpm, while the Forstner bit has a limitation of 3K rpm.

1. 
   saschafer | Apr 24, 2008 09:17pm | #9

   1-1/2" should be a piece of cake. 1000 rpm is on the high side for a bit that big; I'd slow it down to 500 rpm or so, which to a first approximation would reduce the frictional force by a factor of four.

   -Steve

    

2. 
   SequimBob | Apr 24, 2008 09:35pm | #10

   Thanks for the suggestion.  I'll attempt to continue drilling with the slower speed to see if that solves the problem.  I hope that the speed range actually goes that low though.  With 16 speeds, I hope that there is sufficient range to get there.  I'll let you know how that comes out, but it may be a day or two.

3. 
   wdrite | Apr 27, 2008 04:12pm | #17

   Along with slower speed, you might try slower feed rate.

4. 
   SequimBob | Apr 27, 2008 10:38pm | #19

   I have tried a slower feed rate, but this doesn't seem to make much difference.  I am clearing the hole after just a few shavings appear but the bit release still occurs.

5. 
   saschafer | Apr 28, 2008 07:08pm | #20

   If the bit is sharp and isn't bent*, something is wrong with the Jacobs taper. Whether the problem is cleanliness, a scratch, or what, I don't know, but it just shouldn't be doing that.

   -Steve

   *An amount of runout required to loosen the taper, as mentioned in another message, should be very visible. Try running the bit at minimum speed, and move a wooden block into position so that it's not quite touching the side of the bit; if you can't see the wobble, I doubt that it's enough to be causing the taper to loosen.

    

6. 
   SequimBob | Apr 28, 2008 08:16pm | #21

   Thanks for the input.  I don't think the bit isn't sharp or bent.  I got through over 2" of wood and generated lots of shavings before things started to go to pot. 

   My only thought now is that I got into some slightly harder wood or that in combination with the drill being lowered over 3" has revealed some slop in the drill press shaft??.  Since the bit is only cutting on one side, this might induce some torque on the JT in the chuck.

   I don't think that the JT is scratched or such.  In fact, there is a little bit of metal at the top of the JT from where the friction fit cleaned itself.  There is a squealing sound when the chuck comes free, but I think this is just the metal to metal joint being scraped.

7. 
   saschafer | Apr 28, 2008 08:25pm | #22

   "In fact, there is a little bit of metal at the top of the JT from where the friction fit cleaned itself."

   That could be enough to cause the problem. Friction relies on clean contact over a large surface area. If a portion of the surface is disturbed and sits proud of the rest of the surface, even by a couple thousandths of an inch, it will drastically reduce the amount of friction that is available to hold the taper in place.

   -Steve

    

8. 
   saschafer | Apr 28, 2008 08:34pm | #23

   Here's a thread discussing proper seating of a Jacobs taper: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/showthread.php?p=876937.

   Something else to try, if you suspect that there is a problem with the taper, as I do ;-): Clean up both halves of the taper joint. Apply some ink from a felt marker over the entire mating surface of the male half. Seat the taper by hand, rotating slightly as you push it on, then take it back apart. The ink should be rubbed off more or less uniformly. If there are one or two small areas where the ink is completely gone, then the taper isn't seating properly because of high spots at those points.

   -Steve

    

9. 
   SequimBob | Apr 28, 2008 09:12pm | #24

   Thanks for the suggestion with the ink.  If I find a problem how is this fixed?  Do I just buy a new chuck/quill? or both?  I have had this drill press for about 20 years without having any problems, using the same chuck and quill.  I even used this for a short time as a makeshift lathe to make a couple of pens.  I'm surprised that a problem has developed after all this time.

10. 
    JohnWW | Apr 29, 2008 03:56pm | #25

    If the mating surfaces are damaged you can try to clean them up a bit, though it is hard to do anything with the internal taper in the chuck. The external taper on the arbor can be touched up lightly with a file while it is spinning in the drill press or lathe.It is worth trying to clean the tapers up, but the surfaces have to be in near perfect shape and very smooth to get a solid fit and that is very hard to achieve. The fact that you heard squealing and there is a ridge on the taper would suggest the fit is badly damaged and you will have to replace both the chuck and the arbor. I would suggest going into the MSC catalog to see what is available, a decent quality import chuck and arbor assembly shouldn't be all that expensive. You can get a one piece chuck and arbor assembly which will prevent this from happening in the future. John White

3. 
   JohnWW | Apr 24, 2008 09:02pm | #6

   Before you seat the chuck and arbor from the lathe make sure the end of the MT is long enough to be visible in the slot in the spindle, if it isn't, you won't be able to use the drift to release the MT when you are done.The additional friction from the larger bit was probably the reason the chuck came loose but the JT should have been strong enough to handle the torque.If you have a drill with a long unfluted shank, preferably a new one that definitely hasn't been bent, install it in the chuck and raise the table so that only the smooth part of the shank is visible above the table. Then use a small block of wood on the table, placed close to the shank to judge if the drill is wobbling when you rotate the spindle by hand.John White

1. 
   SequimBob | Apr 24, 2008 09:13pm | #8

   Thanks for the suggestion on checking on the visibility of the quill in the release slot.

   I recently added a laser alignment option that included a long straight shaft for aligning the laser cross hairs with the point on the shaft.  I didn't notice any drift in the shaft when it was rotated.  I have also used this to align the shaft with the table, to eliminate any off center problems.  One thing I did not do was to check the alignment when fully extending the shaft -- difficult to accomplish since the shaft doesn't lock into position.

3. 
   MrBill | Apr 27, 2008 03:20am | #16

   Bob,

    I read some of the relpys, but not all of them, so hopefully this is not a repeat. The reason the Morse Taper is releasing is not the load. It is probably because the bit you are using is not running absolutely straight. We have a large "drill press" that is used as a cylinder head machining center. It has a 3MT spindle and you can actually stall the 3 HP motor before the taper will let go. However, if I have something that is running out even the slightest bit, it will want to come loose every time. Actually the lower the load, the more prone it is to releasing.  Also, like someone else said, the taper has to be very clean.  

   I would look at the taper and your bit.

   Just my opinion,

    

   Bill Koustenis

   Advanced Automotive Machine

   Waldorf Md

1. 
   SequimBob | Apr 27, 2008 10:35pm | #18

   Thanks for your information.  Actually, the MT is just fine.  What is releasing is the JT part of the quill that goes into the chuck.  My latest suspicion is that the Forstner bit has only one cutting surface on the bottom (along with a set of teeth on the sides) and this might be providing some off center friction that causes the JT to release.