All,
I am interested in making cabriole legs using a draw knife. Can anyone provide some guidance on the type of available characteristics of draw knives best suited for making these legs?
Thanks,
dlb
.
The undisciplined life is not worth examining.
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Replies
I wouldn't call myself an expert on drawknives by any means, but I do use one fairly regularly. Perhaps more important than your choice of drawknife is your choice of clear, straight-grained stock. I often skew the drawkinfe while working, so I would suggest a blade at least 8" long. 10" long knives seem to be common. They are available either with a single or double bevel - single seems to be the more common and popular. Find a drawknife with comfortable handles. You might also want to look at a shaving horse. A good vise can also work for your purpose, where a square section remains to clamp on to.
and www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
There is an excellent video on the Woodworking Channel.
Select: Videos, Lee-Nielsen Toolworks, Brian Boggs.
The video goes all the way from log to finished leg and about half of it is drawknife work. Enjoy!
A drawknife is an excellent tool in the right hands, but it isn't the only tool you will need to finish a curve in a leg. The drawknife will be excellent for roughing out the shape, and, in experienced hands, can get very close to the finished shape. Spokeshaves or scrapers can be used to get a finished surface after the drawknife work.
Be very careful. A drawknife is pulled towards you, and has a chisel-like sharp edge. You can really gash yourself badly in the midsection or legs if you are not careful. I would highly recommend some leather protective covering in place when learning to use the tool.
dlb,
By no means am I an expert in the use of a drawknife or cabriole legs for that matter. On the first leg I made I used a drawknife to refine the rough bandsawn shape. With a fair amount of practice I got it to work quite nicely.
The knife I use has about an 8" blade and has a sort of oval shaped bevel in cross section on its underside. Learned to ride the bevel much like one would with turning chisels. Takes some practice but not too difficult. The oval shaped bevel seemed to work well in the tight bend behind the knee area.
You do need to read the grain as going against it is likely to create tearout or deep digs into the wood. Skewing the blade allows you to take very fine cuts in many areas.
A shaving horse isn't necessary but sure makes things a lot more pleasurable. I've used several fixtures with bench vises to hold the leg but prefer to do it sitting down, and I'm not clamped to the woodshop either.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
Another poster directed me to a video of Brian Boggs using a draw knife and a shaving horse. Brian did an excellent job, btw. The thing I noticed was that he was using what looked like a 10" knife which for my purposes may be about 2" too big. He also spoke about the bevel of the wood, orientation of the blade ( up or down ) and reading the grain. A good video to learn from.
I appreciate all of the feedback and good ideas. Now all I have to do is find a knife on eBay and screw up enough courage to make the first cut.
Thanks again,
dlb
.
The undisciplined life is not worth examining.
dlb,
Prolly THE most important part - it needs to be razor sharp. Don't ask me how I know this. :-)
View Image
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Edited 8/17/2009 12:47 pm ET by KiddervilleAcres
Bob, Caught you. Your not retired -- there's no liver spots on your hand. Of course that English Patient bandage requires and explanation.
Field testing a band saw blade sharpness or just a simple edge test on the draw knife?
Saw one like that on Norm's hand once...John
boiler,
Ahhh just a nick but I still don't know how it happened - never felt a thing. Started seeing blood spots on the legs and thought this will never do. :-) Hasn't happened agin though. And they talk about cherry blotching!
The bandage was a bit of Kleenex with masking tape. Hey I was just finishing shaping the last leg, last thing before sticker checking and lights out.
Regards, Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
boiler,
Caught you. Your not retired -- there's no liver spots on your hand.
Liver spots! I detest liver. Oh gawd I can't even stand the smell of it cooking. Every Saturday night my grandpa used to have liver and onions with baked beans! Loved the beans but had to eat the liver too. No problem though, their dog waited patiently by my side......
Does ye havta have those spots before you retire? I thougt you got those from drinking too much. Haven't touched a drop in almost 4 years now.
Regards, Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
I hope by now you hand has healed & that in the future only the wood will be cut. BTW, I received a catalogue from an architectural millworks co. that has a photo of the company personel. It shows the owner and his wife, she without a digit on one finger. Count your blessings my dear friend.
Thanks,
dlb
.
The undisciplined life is not worth examining.
dlb,
For sharpening the blade I use a Delta benchtop 1" belt sander.
View Image I have an old one without the disc and I removed the platen that is behind the belt. I started with a 120 grit belt and it was FAST. Gotta be careful with it, read light passes. An old worn belt works much better.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
A hah..... I see the makings of a Belt Grinder Afficionado there.
Mighty handy machine , that, baby or not, better than ........ah fooey, I could go on and on and on and onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.
Congratulations. Have you got a leather belt for it as well (for stropping some tools such as turning tools)?Philip Marcou
philip,
Sir, I must confess to having lernt that from you. Removal of the platen and table/tool rest also affords one the pleasure of larnin how to freehand sharpen.
Now I must find a leather belt. I trust it's fair sport to charge the leather belt whilst running the belt grinder, freehand of course.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
"trust it's fair sport to charge the leather belt whilst running the belt grinder, freehand of course."
Definitely: quick and easy, just like applying compound to a buffing wheel.(Er, you did say "charge" and not "change" ?)
But does Delta not supply a suitable leather belt with that machine?
I have an old Elu combination that has a leather belt included-see picture.Philip Marcou
philip,
But does Delta not supply a suitable leather belt with that machine?
They wouldn't do that cuz it goes agin the grain <pun intended RalphBarker>. They want ye to buy their latest sharpening system, er if they have one.
Your belt grinder is a much better design than mine it appears. Is the plastic bottle for water to keep thangs cool, or is it where the charging compound is dispensed from?
In lieu of a leather belt could I use the backside of a well worn belt? I must find a 1" belt that will fit. Time to rally the Google folk.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Oh, what about this?
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Dewalt-DW753-Bench-Grinder-Linisher/dp/B0001IWGJY
I see linisher in the market speak. Now that's something I've heard about from you and derek. Uh oh, I see a new trail brancing out from the slippery slope..................
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Tis well known that thee must linish before thee finish and the smoother thee finish,
the slippery the slope...
"<pun intended RalphBarker>"And appreciated, too. ;-)How are the ends of the leather belt held together? Hide glue?
Ralph,
Ohhh I have lots of questions about the leather belt too. I'll take a wild guess that the ends are sewn together. That Dewalt thang comes with, I believe, 2 leather belts and runs on 240. Hmmmmmmm
Hopefully phillip can fill in some blanks for us. I've used sections of an old barbers strop on a block of wood before but never a belt on a machine.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
"I'll take a wild guess that the ends are sewn together. "
Not on any that I have seen. They are skived and glued for a nice smooth join- and run in one direction only.....
Not related to these honing belts but I have skived with a plane and joined the leather drive belt for my South Bend machinist lathe using epoxy and clamps- seems permanent and strong enough (some years down the road).Philip Marcou
Sir phillip,
Aha, I've found (with Paddys help) leather belts from Lee Valley but the joints are lapped not skived. A bit of Googling found this:
View Image
Hmmmmmmmmmm, this could be interesting......... There must be some sort of jig available, eh? :-)
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
"There must be some sort of jig available, eh?"You could try this: glue up some wood to create a u-channel (the width of the belt). Form a low angle bevel that becomes a ramp for the slicing cutter. I can sketch a drawing, should you wish.
Best wishes,
Metod
Added: A plane iron would be easier to control than the blade in the picture.
Edited 8/19/2009 9:15 am ET by Metod
Metod,
Thanks, that makes it very clear.
I think I will try the belts from Lee Valley. I would very much like to make some belts though. Wasn't familiar with a skived joint but see that it's perhaps another name for what I call a scarf joint.
Still not sure how the ends are affixed together though. This woodworking hobby is truly a never ending learning process; most enjoyable.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
Yes 'scarf joint' is a commonly used name. If you use my jig, as Philip goodly <g> suggested, with the whole plane, you basically have a shooting channel. With small 'scarf angles' you can get good size gluing area.
Skewing a scarf joint, as suggested, seems to me better than than a square one. However, you need to make a 'left' and a 'right' jig.
Also, come to think, I will use such a jig (different ramp angles) to establish and maintain the micro-angles with great consistency and ease/speed. Hold the iron in the channel with one hand, and run a stone/strop on the bevel/ramp of the channel. At the moment, this is the closest to free-handing that I can think. This actually adds a few points to flat grinding (as opposed to hollow grinding), as per Philip's preference. Heck, make a ramp straddling your belt sander (a geometric cousin of Derek's version), and you get primary bevels (as in removing larger nicks) faster than on a grinder - cooler too.My apology: This has nothing to do with draw knives.Best wishes,
Metod
Edited 8/21/2009 7:43 am ET by Metod
They do make a machine to do that scive. I have two one for thinning soles and one for upper leather. The one for thinning soles is sort of crude but effective called a 5 in 1.
The other one is a machine with a round blade, feed mechanism and presser foot. It is a little finnacky and deadly sharp. I bought it new in 1982 for $2,500.I use contact cement to hold the material together. if you think you need more reinforcment, a very thin pice of cotton fabric to the back again with contact cement.Grinding leather, but be done carefully so not to burn the leather . I makes it hard and will not cement well.
On old industrial belts they would butt joint and use a kind of bent staple to join the edges, but were talking about 1/4 inch thick or better.Many years ago near London Ontario I was in and old leather shop still run by a water wheel. Huge shafts pullies and leather drive belts. If OSHA saw it they would die of a heart attack.
Shoe, I had an old Singer treadle sewing machine once that used a round leather "rope" type belt to run. It was the crudest thing imaginable - but it worked great. The ends of the belt were held together with a big metal staple, just as you described for the thick leather belts. I was always amazed at how that fastening system held up for years and years, and I used the machine quite a bit.Leather is tougher than most of us think...ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
Zolton I have one of those also. The big staple crude but effective.
What kind of leather work do you do?
Shoe, I don't do any leather work at all. But I used to sew canvas backpacks and duffel bags. The treadle sewing machine was what I had to work with for a while until I bought a large, industrial Singer unit. ZoltonIf you see a possum running around in here, kill it. It's not a pet. - Jackie Moon
Metod,
Dang, ye scattered outa here so fast ye dropped the d at the end of yer name. Here ye go. Please, no apologies.
My good man this has everything to do with draw knives, at least it did to me. Now if you'll give a day or three to absorb at least some of it.........
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
A straight lapped joint might be OK for some leather belt applications, but I'd think a skived joint (compound angle) would be better on a motor-driven belt, so as to minimize the potential for the joint to catch the blade being stropped. Examine, for example the joint on a sander belt. Some sort of backing applied to the interior surface of the leather belt for greater strength might be beneficial, as well.
You could use a jig as Metod describes. I have done a few , but the leather was quite stiff and dense so it was easy to just shave it with a plane. I have also use a very coarse belt on the belt grinder to taper down ends . It is easier than you would think-you just mark the extent of each skive/taper and go for it-test it by clamping together to be sure the joint area is not too thick-may take several goes. A nice wide chisel is also good.
No doubt the Block Plane Brigade would employ a block plane- excellent application for that tool (;).Philip Marcou
Bob, Bob, Bob.How on earth did you let your finger get in FRONT of the sharp part? Did you do that to remind yourself that there are many, many nerves in a finger-tip?I'm sorry about the accident.JerryFrosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Frosty,
How on earth did you let your finger get in FRONT of the sharp part?
I know huh. I still don't know how it happened. No big thing and everything is working fine
Hope all is well with you.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I usually manage to cut myself while sharpening drawknives, rather than using them.Of course, now that I've said that...
I use a drawknife that was handmade in Finland. The drawknife is at least 12" long not counting the bent tangs. The blade has a gentle curve,the tangs are bent to about 110° from the straight.One handle was turned on a lathe and fitted to the right tang. The other was carved ,or maybe shaped with a hatchet ,bored and driven on the tang. I imagine the original came off and this was a quick fix that has lasted close to 100 years.Mom gave me this drawknife, was her grandfathers . She went home to visit years ago and brought me several of my great grandfathers tools.
I keep it sharp enough to shave with, sometimes with the bevel up if I want to take a deep cut. Mostly with the bevel down and skewed at an angle. I don't use it often enough to claim any expertise. I almost always use it with a shave horse that I made. You can easily make a shavehorse with a plank,3 or four legs and a dumbhead that either goes thru the plank or works from bolted pivots . Slight leg pressure grips the work. Do a google search for shavehorse and you will probably come up with several easy and good designs.
mike
dlb,
We seem to be drifting away a bit so hope you don't mind. If you want I could open a new discussion if this is of no interest to you.
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
I don't mind the drifting. Since we are drifting allow me to interject a related question. How much do you thing a pre 1860 Witherby draw knife should cost? Description to follow:
This is an early Witherby drawknife ("drawing knife" as referred to in their ad), draw plane or draw shave. It is in good condition considering the age. The ferrules are tight with handles that are void of any splits or cracks. The bevel or cutting edge measures almost 9" across and the blade is 1" wide. The grips are 4 ½" from shoulder to tail with a 1 ¼" diameter at the outer bout. The handles span about 16" from outside to outside. There is some surface pitting in the iron and the beveled edge has been sharpened several times leaving a slight curve to the blade. I believe this was manufactured prior to the T.H. Witherby Tool Company selling to the Winsted Hoe Co of Conn. (that became the Winsted Edge Tool Co) because the Winstead is not under the Witherby name sharing the "W". With a good honing this will make an excellent partner to you and a great collectible for your drawknife or Witherby collection.
Thanks,
dlb
.
The undisciplined life is not worth examining.
dlb,
Let me say that by no means am I any sort of expert with drawknives but I should think that good steel would be a prerequisite. Witherby is a name brand that I've heard many times but have no idea as to their quality, perhaps other more experienced folks may be able to advise.
I just Googled witherby drawknife and found this, as well as several others: http://cgi.ebay.com/ANTIQUE-T-H-WITHERBY-DRAW-KNIFE-WOOD-SHAPER-TOOL-1800s_W0QQitemZ400058864742QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5d255dd466&_trksid=p4634.c0.m14
The seller is asking $47.77 USD. I bought one with a box of old tools which cost less than the asking price above so am not sure what I actually paid for it. I do have a weakness for yard/garage sales and flea markets as they often yield very good buys.
If you're searching eBay for knives you can generally use the asking prices as a guide but the bidding can sometimes drive the final price way beyond a tools actual worth.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
Thanks for the info. The description which I posted was from an eBay offering. I need a drawknife but I do not need a collectable one; I need a functional one. Now that I now the price range I think that I will just try to find 'a drawknife' so that I can (1) practice sharpening & (2) practice using until (3) I can afford to upgrade to a high quality knife.
Thanks for your time,
dale
.
The undisciplined life is not worth examining.
dale,
As you can prolly tell I'm a big drawknife fan. I use mine a lot and maybe times I should have used another tool, but.... Getting pretty comfortable using one, 'cept for one ding. I have several different lengths but the 6" knife is my favorite.
Here's a WEB page that has quite a selection if you're looking at buying new. http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com/product_info.php/cPath/36_104/products_id/4746
Nope, I have nothing to do with them. I recall someone in here who has experience with a pushknife but don't remember who it was; somes-timers agin mebbe.
I'm sorry that I can't recommend one to you as there are no markings left on the ones I have. Maybe I should try a good one so I could compare but mine work for me so am in no big yank for a new one.
From what I understand they were used to remove bark from logs and were rather large, 12" or greater. Sometime along the way craftsmen obviously discovered different uses for them.
Have fun with whatever you decide on. They're a very useful tool to have and they'll teach ye how to read the grain in wood too. Did I say major tearout!?
Regards,
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Bob,
Well, I bid on a Witherby knife and won & oddly enough I was the only bidder. So now the thing is sitting in a box awaiting sharpening, which will take place in a couple of weeks.
Today I poked around on the internet looking for info on Witherby and after reading some postings at a few sights I began to wonder if I should not just build a show case for the thing and hang it on my wall! Granted it is rather old (140+ years), of high quality, built to last a few lifetimes and still in remarkable condition but I don't want to make a mistake by using it when I really should view it as a collectors item. But I don't know much about collecting old tools - I really need something to make cabriolet legs with.
After I sharpen it I will ponder my purchase - whether for pleasure or work.
dlb
.
The undisciplined life is not worth examining.
dlb,
whether for pleasure or work
There's a difference when woodworking? :-) I think I know what you mean.
I'm not sure what your knife is worth but if you sharpen it I should think the damage will have been done as to a collectors item. At least that's my understanding with regard to planes anyway, not sure about drawknives.
You can shape cabriole legs without one and I understand a spokeshave is the tool of choice. I just like the drawknife for shaping them. You do know that I've made a grand total of 5 of them so I must be some sort of expert, eh?
Now I just need one of those Brian Boggs hosses.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
whether for pleasure or work
There's a difference when woodworking? :-) I think I know what you mean.
I'm not sure what your knife is worth but if you sharpen it I should think the damage will have been done as to a collectors item. At least that's my understanding with regard to planes anyway, not sure about drawknives.
You can shape cabriole legs without one and I understand a spokeshave is the tool of choice. I just like the drawknife for shaping them. You do know that I've made a grand total of 5 of them so I must be some sort of expert, eh?
Now I just need one of those Brian Boggs hosses.
Bob,
Thanks for the reply.
"whether for pleasure or work" Possibly a poor choice of words but it gets the point across. Maybe I should have said, "Production or Collection". But anyways ...
but if you sharpen it I should think the damage will have been done as to a collectors item.
Hmmmmm .... The way I look at it is that if I do sharpen it who in 100 yrs from now will know and to them it will be a collectors tool and I would have gotten to make use of it!
I agree that a spokeshave is a tool used in making the legs but I do believe that its function comes after the draw knife.
Well, we have not resolved the dilemma - to collect or not - but I agree that a Brian Boggs shaving horse may be worth more than a handful of Witherby (collector) draw knives.
Hope you get one!
dlb
.
The undisciplined life is not worth examining.
Bob,
I made a horse based on the article that Brian published a few years back. It was done in a short weekend and works great and was an easy project, much less work than the work that is shaped on it.
That's a nice looking piece of work. Congratulations.With that 'Logo' on it , you could sell them.Do you suppose that is Bob made one he would have to put New Hampshire along the side?Frosty"I sometimes think we consider the good fortune of the early bird and overlook the bad fortune of the early worm." FDR - 1922
Actually Utah is an old joke from my kids. We rented horses and mine was called Utah. I really like Racanante which was Don Quixote's horse. Not sure of spelling.
Nice horse. Are the plans available? or a link to the article ?
Brian's plan and article was in Fine Woodworking #139. That's what I worked from. If you go to the magazine index on this site and search for Boggs it will come up. Also there is one article from someone who also built one from $15 of lumberyard stock. Country Workshops' Drew Langsner does sell a plan for a very similar one. If you can't locate any of this, send me an email and I can see what I can do.
thanks,
Stevo
steve,
Very nice hossy, really like the wood.
Did you use the bolts for knockdown capability? Also, nice touch recessing them anywhere near the workin area. OK, what's with the graduated holes just in front of the bolt for the rachtet key? I see that you modified the top jaw; looks a bit more flexible than Brians' magazine version.
All kinds of neat goodies.
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Thanks for the compliments Bob.I really didn't think about knockdown, though I have knocked it down because it doesn't really pack that well in my truck. It was a bit more work to recess the bolts, but it didnt want the bolts to catch the work or inhibit the clamp. The holes are different diameters that are used when I make spindles for Windsors. My spindles are rough at 5/8 then down to 9/16 and finally end up at 1/2 diameter. The holes are all set to 1" deep so I can also measure depth when whittling the spindles. It really has worked well for 5 chairs so far.I did add multiple holes in the top jaw, but really only use the one. My friend also made a second lower jaw with a longer flat base when he wants more support.
The wood I used was black locust with oil. I think its a wonderful wood that is underappreciated.thanks,Stevo
Thanks Steve for the description. I was going to guess hickory.
I'm very tempted to dry dowel mine together, just wax where the instructions say, maybe leave them ½" proud and make some caps, shaped with a drawknife of course. :-)
Regards,Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
"You can shape cabriole legs without one and I understand a spokeshave is the tool of choice. I just like the drawknife for shaping them."
Well, today I sharpened the drawknife and gave it a whirl on a poplar cabriole leg blank that I had made last week. The experience I had was similar to the first time I used a spokeshave - miserable. I then remembered that you had posted the above and pulled out my spokeshave and said, "D**M, I wish I had listened to Bob and used this instead of my drawknife."
I know that I will become more comfortable w/ the drawknife but it will just take time - just like it would w/ any other tool. I will go back into the shop tomorrow, again sharpen the drawknife and tackle the leg blank.
I should have listened to the wisdom of my elders.
Thanks,
dlb
.
The undisciplined life is not worth examining.
I prefer a thin blade to a thicker one. I also prefer the handles to be in the plane of the back of the blade. I have a draw knife that isn't like that. I really recommend hunting around for an antique. I've not seen new drawknives that look great to me.
I think cab legs were original sawn using a few straight cuts (not cut like a band saw), then shaped with a draw knife, spoke shaves, and finally gouges. In a typical chair leg, I use the draw knife for probably less than 5 minutes. It's not a big part of the job. The problem I've encountered is that if you continue to use it, it can ruin the leg. Drawknives want to make straight cuts, creating flat spots on the leg. Don't let it's speed encourage you to keep using it. I've watched a great carver work down to his line using a #7 gouge cross grain. He then cleaned up using his spoke shave or a wide #3.
I wonder is the fellow who said you might need leather protection on your torso has ever actually used a drawknife. These tools are almost impossible to hurt yourself with. The only thing dangerous about them is sharpening them. I wear a glove for than (I hone with broken bits of whetstone, rubbing the stone along the edge in a slicing motion. Just the thought of it makes me squeemish. I hold teh knife during sharpening with one handle jammed into my stomach and the other wedged against my post vise. Beause there's nothing straight or flat on my knives, there's really go good way to hold or clamp them. You really don't want one to slip. I've been using these tools for many years, they are VERY sharp, and I've never cut myself with one (knock wood).
Adam
Adam,
Whilst sharpening I think the knife should be held with both hands. Your process sounds like an ER visit waiting to happen!
I would be more than happy to loan you my 1" belt sander but you will need to provide the electrikery. But that is against your uh grain so to speak methinks.
Who knows, maybe phillip or Metod might make you a nicely skived leather belt for honing on your peddled grindstone sharpener? That being the case I can bring a freshly made batch of Granite dust to Vally Forge for you.
:-)
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Make a wooden cradle for the drawknife and then move the stone over the knife. The cradle can be shaped to fit the knife exactly. Same with a scorp/inshave. I think aldren Watson has picture in his "handtools, their ways and workings" book - maybe one of the appendices if I'm remembering correctly.
The most dangerous parts of the drawknife ore those corners. It's easy to encounter one as it lays on the bench or just in general handling (not in use so much). It's easy to make a blade cover out of some scraps (i.e., two thin strips glued to each side of a narrow strip). That said, I can imagine a newbie taking too big a bite, pulling too hard when the tool gets jammed or stalled, and having the tool's business edge come toward him fast when the woods lets go - same as what can happen (and has probably happend to most of us at one time or another) with a chisel. Always keep in mind where a blade will go if the wood disappears.
"The only thing dangerous about them is sharpening them. "
Really Adam, I think not.....
As you said a moment before "These tools are almost impossible to hurt yourself with."
They are in fact impossible to hurt yourself with provided you are sane sober and sensible.
You can sharpen them sensibly by losing the leather glove (dang, a wasp or even an asp might have been nesting in one of the fingers), holding one handle in left hand so that the other handle is pointing down onto the bench or is held in vise, and using your slip stone, handled diamond plate, plain ordinary 8 inch oil stone, round axe stone, or whatever in the other hand-in other words the sharp edge is vertical or at a suitable angle and you can see what to do without any risk of cutting yourself.....☺ ☺☺ ☺Philip Marcou
Edited 8/22/2009 2:05 am by philip
One problem I've had is not wanting to crush a turned wooden handle in a vise. The unbladed metal end on antique knives are often irregular enough and small enough, and the tool long and cantilevered enough such that the tool can slip out of any vise I have. So to be clear, this tool isn't a novelty for me. I've been preparing stock with these tools and shaping with them for many years. I've never been cut, but they've slipped out of my vises. When the edge is knicked up, an oilstone needs a fair bit of pressure to set the blade right. No stone with a handle will do. I rub the stone directly on the edge such that , if the stone dissappeared, I'd slice into my hand. Thus the glove.I'm not suggesting my way is best or only. But I've done a fair bit of work with this tool and what I suggested is the best I could come up with. Sean suggested a jig of some sort. My knives' blades are so thin and the bevel angles so low (20-25 degrees plus a secondary) I think a jig would be tricky to engineer. And I'm not a jig kind of guy.Adam
Adam,Maybe your antique knives are differently shaped than mine, but I sharpen mine by clamping the "spine" (edge opposite the cutting edge) in a metalworking vise and bringing my waterstones to the tool. Clearance is a slight issue (the front jaw is in the way), so I only use the last inch of the stone or work on either side of the vise. I finish and touch up with a strop, holding the drawknife bevel-up and pointed towards me in a similar position to what you use and draw the strop over top.I liked the idea you described earlier of wasting away with a #7 crossgrain (perpendicular, right?). I use that technique with planes, but had never thought to apply it to carving tools.Think your angles are shallow? Last week, I saw a factory-sharpened 1" #9 with a bevel angle of 5 (yes, five) degrees! I don't have a clue what they were thinking...Chris @ http://www.flairwoodworks.com and http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com)
- Success is not the key to happiness. Happiness is the key to success. If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer
If a leather glove provides any real protection, doesn't that mean that the drawknife isn't sharp enough? ;-)
Adam,
There was an element of teasing in my message and I am glad you didn't get cheesed off.
Regarding holding wooden handles and other irregular shaped delicate things in vices: I always have had scraps of upholstery leather in my shop and this is mighty useful for gripping without marring or crushing.
Philip Marcou
I modified a parallel faced wooden jawed clamp with vee-notches in opposing faces (about 3/4" square or so). I clamp one of the jaws in my vise so that I can easily adjust the other jaw. I clamp one handle in the vee-notch. This has a better grip than just the vise itself, and it allows me to rotate and turn the blade as I need to. I sharpen with slipstones (diamond paddles if I have a significant nick). I rest my middle and index fingers on the opposite face of the stone and the other fingers are tucked away. I always sharpen with the blade edge facing away from me (my palm is next to the blade back). No problem to sharpen with either circular or straight strokes and there is no danger of nicking the fingers since they are behind the stone.
Adam,
Agree with you that it is hard to injure yourself using a drawknife. Maybe our torsos aren't shaped so that they are WAY out in front? But, I did manage to do so as a child, using my great-grand-dad's drawknife- I was sitting on top of the bench ( too short to stand in front of it), with a leg pulled up to my chest, working a bit of pine clamped in blacksmith's post vise that stood a 6" or so above the bench top. Of course, the blade broke out, and I yanked it right into my shin. I had a dent and a purple scar there for years, think I chipped the bone. I would say, that qualifies as trying pretty hard to hurt myself. Any fool could have seen that one coming, but this 5 yr old didn't!
As to thin-ness of blade, I have a sweet little "French" pattern drawknife that I bought years ago at an antique show, thinking it would be the bee's knee's for cabriole legs. Now my favorite is a much heavier one of the same length (about 6"). I like the mass which makes it feel more stable in use. Though the blade is twice as wide and nearly twice as thick as the bitsy one, using it bevel down allows for shaving thru as tight a curve as the narrower blade, such as the toe/ instep of a QA leg.
In honing, I hold one handle in my "off" hand, and pull the other handle into my shoulder (similar to shouldering a rifle). This puts the blade nearly vertical, is quite stable, and perhaps most importantly, in the focal range of my reading glasses:-)Using a glove is optional, as my whetstones are long enought to be held so my hand is mostly below the back of the blade, not approaching the business end of the blade. Swapping the drawknife end-for-end brings the other side of the blade into position for honing.
Ray
As I have heard, there are bevel up and bevel down drawknives. A bevel up works nicely for carving flat surfaces as the flat side of the knife rides is against the wood and carves it flat of course. A bevel down knife allows for more prying and leveraging with the bevel down, but it wont create as flat a surface. Its generally more comfortable if when the flat side of the blade is horizontal, if the handles tilt downward. By using a bevel down upside down, the handle angles are more horizontal and much less comfortable.If you get it upside down, you will quickly sense that something doesnt work well. I have a barr tools chairmakers drawknife the comes sharp,is a wonderful tool, and it is used bevel down. I also have a wonderful old bevel up knife. I use them both for chairs. Razor sharp is critical of course, and a beartek plastic grinder wheel makes quick work of getting a razor edge. It is very easy to round the edge though with this method. Stones of course will work, but take much longer. One last thing. Its almost impossible to cut yourself if both hands are on the handles. You might pull a handle into your chest, but the sharp edge stays away, They are wicked though when holding with one hand, especially the corners. good luck.
Thanks for the info and advice. I am still searching eBay for one & will know something in the next day or two.
dlb
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The undisciplined life is not worth examining.
grind the corners off. they are accidents waiting to happen.
dan
The approach I use is french-cut rasps (I started using the Nicholsons but later changed to the Auriou ones), followed by a spokeshave then a scraper. That's pretty quick and you do not have to worry about all of the grain direction changes with a drawknife.
Starting a new thread under the title, "Collector or Production"
Thanks,
dlb
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The undisciplined life is not worth examining.
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