Replies

1. 
   troys | Mar 02, 2008 02:24am | #1

   I like the Japanese dovetail chisels but those Blue Spruce chisels look pretty nice. You could also grind an old low budget chisel so the blade has a triangular profile although this might be a pain in the rear. Anyway good luck

   Troy

2. 
   Tony Z | Mar 02, 2008 02:26am | #2

    

   Wanda

   For all the chisels I have, I always seem to find myself using a few sizes.  When it fits, the most used is a 5/8" Japanese chisel purchased from Japan Woodworker.  This was a pricey one (for me!) of about $50.00 (blue steel), I don't remember the brand, but it holds an edge better than any other chisel I own.  Next in line would be the 3/8" Ashey Iles butt style chisel.  I love the way these feel in hand and would recommend you try one on for size.  I also have the 3/8" size LN skew chisels and I use these alot for half dovetails, although I wish I would have bought the 1/4" size.

   I have dozens and dozens of vintage chisels and of modern chisels, I purchased one or two of each brand to see how they felt in hand.  On one of the other forums a bit back, I sold off all the modern chisels that didn't feel right to me.  Price was about $.25 on the dollar so the buyer got a real bargain, since these were all like new--just didn't feel right.

   Tony Z.

3. 
   saschafer | Mar 02, 2008 02:39am | #3

   I agree with the others that Japanese dovetail chisels work very well for winkling out the corners of a dovetail. You always want to use the widest chisel that will fit, since that means a cleaner surface and less work. I have a 3/8" Japanese dovetail chisel that works for most things. I will undoubtedly get a 1/4" at some point, and may or may not get a wider one.

   For really tiny work, I recently purchased the 1/8" dovetail chisel from this set, http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=46035&cat=1,41504, which I like very much (enough so that I will probably buy the 1/4" and 1/2" sizes one of these days, too). I've only used it in relatively soft wood; I suspect that it might not be appropriate for cutting dovetails in white oak, for example.

   I have a pair of skew chisels, and while I do occasionally use them for general clean up, I find the dovetail chisel to be easier to use when I am in fact cutting dovetails. The skew chisels are basically just too wide.

   -Steve

    

1. 
   Eef | Jan 20, 2009 12:30am | #20

   steve!
   where ya been lad? good to "see" you again.wanda,
   i got the blue spruce ones last year. very nice. dave, at blue spruce, even put maple handles on them at my request. my other chisels are a mish-mash of various types.eef

4. 
   derekcohen | Mar 02, 2008 04:13am | #4

   Hi Wanda

   I believe that you could use just about any chisel to cut a dovetail, even a firmer chisel ... some, however, would make this a struggle, while others would make the process a joy.

   You can get away with just a few chisels in this area: my most used sizes are 1/8" and 1/4" (I like skinny, often very tiny dovetails in boards 3/8" thick and under). After this you can use most chisels to do the work, returning to one of these to clean out the angles - most assume that the chisel must go fuly right into the angled sides but this is not essential ... desirable but not essential. Incidentally, my 5 Blue Spruce go from 1/8" through 3/4". I cannot imagine needing wider for detail pairing.

   The other issue is whether you can get a chisel that will actually fit right into the angle (I am referring to tail angles here). I only know of two makes that do this off-the-shelf: Blue Spruce (which I own) and LN (which I have used). All others need have the sides ground so that they may be used this way. I include the Japanese dovetail chisels here as well. In fact, they are a little harder to grind back since the harder steel layer is ... well, harder! I have two sets of Japanese dovetail chisels, a set of 4 Koyamaichi (I am not sure if these are the same as sold by Lee Valley. They are the same make, I believe, and terrific steel). The other is a set of 2 Matsumura. These are terrific value-for-money. I have a 1/8" and 1/4" and have these ones ground on the sides to a sharp angle. Japanese chisels outlast everything in terms of edge retention.

   Now the question is will you remove the waste with a fret saw and pare out the remainder, or will you chop it all out? This decides what type of chisel you want to get. I do not chop with the Blue Spruce. They would not stand up to that. I do not pare with the Japanese. The hooped ends are for hammering and they are not too comfortable to push on. By-the-by, the LN are capable of both paring and pushing.

   I prefer sawing and paring with the Blue Spruce but when the wood is just too hard for this I use the Japanese chisels. Some Aussie end grain hardwood is not fun to pare, even with a chisel as nice as a BS!

   For half-blind dovetails you will need a couple of specialist chisels. This is where a fishtail or a couple of skews are really handy. There are corner angles that are difficult to clean out with straight ends. I have made fishtails and skews (just grind them out of spare chisels), but also have a couple that I purchased. Blue Spruce make both skews and a fishtail, LN makes skews, and you can buy Japanese fishtails.

   Here are a few images of mine:

   The sides of Blue Spruce chisels ...

   View Image

   Matsumura dovetail chisels before grinding the sides, alongside Iyoroi bench chisels ...

   View Image

   I made these, with the exception of the two BS skews ..

   View Image

   The third from the left is a fishtail, and the extreme right is a flat blade (1mm thick) I ground out of a plastering trowel used to extend the kerf on half-blind saw cuts (hammer it in, ala Tage Frid).

   Regards from Perth

   Derek

    

1. 
   Wanda200 | Mar 02, 2008 05:02am | #6

   Hi Derek,

   I would like the process to be a JOY! not a drudgery!  I should have mentioned that I'll be attempting to make through dovetails. So for now I won't need to purchase any specialized chisel (fishtail, skew) If and only if I ever master the through dovetail I will attempt the half blind dovetail. One step at at time.  :)

   For through dovetails I'd be better off purchasing a set of BS dovetail chisels. I'm really surprised Lie Nielsen doesn't sell dovetail chisels. Their regular bevel edged chisels wouldn't be the best choice for cleaning out the angles would they?

   I was thinking of building the drawer sides from 1/2"... 3/4" thick material mostly softwood or medium density hardwood like mahogany and poplar.

   I have no intention of chopping out the waste. LOL I'd prefer to use the fret saw to remove most of the waste and then pare out the remaining waste.

   You mentioned that you've used LN chisels but you own BS.. Did you have to modify the LN chisels before using them to cut dovetails?  Did you have to taper the sides? I like the fact that the LN chisels can do delicate work as well as more general purpose chopping. That's  a definite advantage.

   So for a beginner like myself who for now intends to stick with making Through dovetails. Which chisel is going to do the BEST job? I have no problem investing a little more money into a chisel that's going to make woodworking a joy rather than a chore.

   As for Size... 1/8 and 1/4" are they a must for cleaning out the waste. I might just get away without having to buy the 3/4" chisel.  1:8 1:5 1:6  not too small not too big. Tails are usually 2X the size of pins aren't they.

   Wanda

    

1. 
   derekcohen | Mar 02, 2008 06:06am | #8

   Hi Wanda

   Before I bought the Blue Spruce I did consider the LN. For reference, the LN bench chisels are just fine for dovetailing. Their sides are as tapered as the BS, and they cover a wider range of uses - you can fit the paring handles for pushing or hammer on the standard ones as much as you like without damage.

   So the question is why did I not get the LN when I give them a good review? The answer is that I wanted a chisel for detail paring, not chopping, and the Blue Spruce were much more comfortable in the hand. They have a longer handle as standard, which was one of the deciding factors.

   Here is a image of the BS (rear) with the Stanley (same as the LN) ...

   View Image

   Both chisels are A2 steel. A2 is not a steel that one wants to grind below 30 degrees as it tends to fold at that angle. Having said that I have LV and LN blades that hold up on planes without a problem. Nevertheless, the LN have had some poor publicity with (especially early) versions folding. The usual recommendation is to add a small 5 degree microbevel, but I do not want a microbevel on a chisel used for paring. I often use them bevel down and a (front as well as back) microbevel will destroy the registration. I have not heard of BS having this problem - quite the reverse. Keep in mind that both companies are just fantastic in regard to support and if you opt for LN any issues willl be dealt with promptly and painlessly. I must emphasize that I was answering why I chose BS about 2 1/2 years ago. There are many, many very satisfied LN users and I imagine that these issues are no longer present. Perhaps recent LN buyers may comment. I love LN as a company - have many of their planes (as many as the LV I am probably better known for using). I wouldn't trade the BS for LN, but if I were buying afresh (especially in your situation of wanting fewer chisels for a wider range of tasks) I would seriously consider the LN.

   Regards from Perth

   Derek

2. 
   BG | Mar 02, 2008 06:23pm | #9

   Wanda,
   About the only thing I've come across that made a chisel a chore was if I had to sharpen it too frequently. Other issues that made the chisel less desirable were unique to me and what I was trying to do and really can't be generalized to others. The process you develop to cut your dovetails determines the best tool in general, and then that gets modified to your likes and dislikes. For instance, you've heard here that Japanese chisels are great for chopping and they truly are...all day long never need sharpening. However, I hate to pare with them, too short for me and the ragged ends hurt my hands. I doubt you have hands like mine (thank God for the differences).

1. 
   Wanda200 | Mar 04, 2008 12:05am | #13

   Hi BG,

   Yup, I've heard great things about Japenese chisels. But I've heard they are not so easy to sharpen due to the harder steel.

   Is sharpening that much of a nightmare? I"d imagine a LN , BS or Ashley Isles chisel would maintain an edge for a reasonable amt of time.

   Wanda

    

1. 
   BG | Mar 04, 2008 12:48am | #14

   Wanda,
   At the risk of making your life more complicated....if your using the correct chisel for the right job, once sharpened, only re-honing should be required for a fairly long time. I bought a Sorby years ago, two wackes with a mallet and the tip would roll..not so good for chopping, but I love it for paring.
   If I had Japanese, LN's and BS chisels the bevel angles would be 30, 25, 20 respectively and use the Japanese for chopping, the LN's for both chopping and paring and the BS for paring only. This would minimize the sharpening and re-honing effort. However, I'm never gonna have all three, like everyone else I have a cheap set to fall back on and a few good chisels...Japanese, Witherby's, Buck bros., Stanley 750, etc.

2. 
   EdHarrison | Mar 04, 2008 05:36am | #15

   I'll second what Napie said. If you've got inexpensive chisels, you can grind your own triangular dovetail chisels. I've done so with beater E. A. Bergs. The best inexpensive chisels are the ones that used to be very good a long time ago and now look like they've spent some time with cavemen.Sharpening is not a nightmare - not only is it an integral part of working with handtools, it is even fun after a while, once you break the code on how quickly you can actually do it. Good luck.

2. 
   saschafer | Mar 03, 2008 08:49pm | #11

   "The other issue is whether you can get a chisel that will actually fit right into the angle (I am referring to tail angles here). I only know of two makes that do this off-the-shelf..."

   Tools for Working Wood has some new Japanese chisels that are ground appropriately: http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/Merchant/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=toolshop&Product_Code=MS-JCOD.XX&Category_Code=TBBCND

   The aforementioned Veritas detail chisels (based on Yeung Chan's designs) are, too.

   -Steve

    

   Edited 3/3/2008 12:50 pm ET by saschafer

5. 
   PaulMassachusetts | Mar 02, 2008 04:59am | #5

        Woodcraft has a 6 piece boxed set of Irwin/Marples Chisels--they are great. The box makes them easy to move around the shop to your workstation.  The latest catalog lists them as $64.99. They can be hit with a wooden mallet or hand pushed. You can upgrade later but probably never will have to.

6. 
   Wingdoctor | Mar 02, 2008 06:03am | #7

   I really like the Ashley Isles chisels. They feel great in the hand, nice steel, come pretty darn sharp already, and are really not that expensive. They have very nice bubinga handles. I got mine from Tools For Working Wood. Check them out.

   Bruce

7. 
   MikeHennessy | Mar 02, 2008 06:26pm | #10

   I hand cut a lot of DTs. I used to use my good chisels, but I got tired of holding/pinching the blade near the edge to accurately position the chisel and to control the angle of the cut -- so I picked up some fairly cheap butt chisels at Woodcraft. They're only about 3" or 4" long, total, so they are much easier to control. I beat on them with a metal carver's maul.

   They're not the world's finest chisels, but they've lasted for a couple of years now. The handle ends are starting to show signs of wear from all the beating (I make primarily hardwood drawers -- red oak or maple, so they get banged pretty hard), but I'm surprised how well they have held up generally.

   Since I've picked these small chisels up, I never use my standard bench chisels for dovetailing. The butt chisels are just too much easier to deal with. For the few bucks they cost, I'd recommend you give 'em a try.

   Mike Hennessy
   Pittsburgh, PA

8. 
   Napie | Mar 03, 2008 09:46pm | #12

   Forget new.  Chisels are still a good bet at flea markets. My collection, (thirty plus tools), of various Greenlees, Buck Bros., Unions, Stanley’s etc all cost under $5.00 each and have been great.  You can save a ton of money and end up with some great stuff.  I found two crank neck Greenlees at a garage sale for 50 cents each.  A little clean up, flatten the backs (which you have to do with new chisels anyway), and they are good to go.

9. 
   blewcrowe | Mar 04, 2008 05:40pm | #16

   I have a set of those really stubby chisels. I think they're made by Sorby. They're about half the length of a normal bench chisel. They're a lot easier to wield IMO.

10. 
    rarebear | Mar 04, 2008 07:33pm | #17

    Blue Spruce chisels are very nice I am told but you can buy a old 3/8 bevel chisel and do as Lonnie Byrd does and bevel the sides right to the back face so you can get into corners well..

11. 
    77seriesiii | Jan 19, 2009 09:38pm | #18

    Wanda,

    Finding my self in a similar situation...what did you end up getting?

    ./e

1. 
   Wanda200 | Jan 19, 2009 10:12pm | #19

   Hi,

   I've pretty much decided on LN chisels because I can use them to pare and  chop. I thought about buying the Japense chisels from LV but for the kind of work I do I'm better off just buying a good set up bevel edge LN chisels. Maybe a pair of LN skew chisels 1/4"

   Wanda