Replies

1. 
   nikkiwood | Jul 29, 2004 04:14pm | #1

   Good question. I have never heard or read anything about ill effects coming from washing water based products in the sink, and letting it all run down the drain.

   Will be interesting to see what more knowledgeable folks around here have to say.

2. 
   forestgirl | Jul 29, 2004 07:22pm | #2

   Nick's coming home from Oregon tonight, I'll run it by him.  A MSDS for one of the water-based products should give him the info he needs.  We're on a septic tank too, so I'll be interested in the info.

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   Jeff | Jul 30, 2004 01:36am | #3

   FG

   I'll be leaving for 4 days early Sat morning.

   So, if you post early, I'll see it late Friday nite.

   If not. keep it alive till tuesday nite.

   Jeff

1. 
   forestgirl | Jul 30, 2004 01:50am | #4

   Hi Jeff, just got an email from my sweetie, and he's having to stay in OR tonight, so I might not post for a couple of days.  Hope you trip is for fun purposes.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   Jeff | Jul 30, 2004 02:11pm | #5

   Visiting my parents.

   Every 2 months.

   Jeff

1. 
   Jeff | Aug 03, 2004 03:17pm | #6

   OK

   I'm back.

   Any new info?

   Jeff

2. 
   forestgirl | Aug 03, 2004 07:27pm | #7

   Hi, Yep!  Busy weekend....anyway....

   You're definitely right about not disposing in septic tank.

   Best options are to let evaporate or, if you have access to a drain that goes to a municipal treatment plant, pour it there.  (For instance, we are on septic at home, but I can rinse brushes in the bathroom in my store downtown and that water goes to a municipal sewer.)  Obviously, do not pour down street drains.

   Pouring on ground is OK if it's not real large quantities.  Spread it around.  Stay away from any place that would run down to a stream or lake (if you're lucky enough to have one in your backyard).

   Again (for others who might read this post) do not let run into street drains.  This is true for just about everything, including washing your car, which should be done on the lawn, not in the driveway (my salmon-saving instincts are raging!)

   I found the MSDS for Minwax Polycrilic at this site:http://www.easternct.edu/depts/env_saf/msdspaint.html

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

3. 
   Jeff | Aug 04, 2004 01:52am | #8

   Thanks FG

   Guess it's time to go to plan B.

   Jeff

3. 
   forestgirl | Aug 04, 2004 06:23pm | #9

   Jeff, I just re-read your original post and noticed this sentence:
   "Also, could I wash brushes in water in the shop (like thinner) and let it settle out the same way?"

   They are two difference situations.  With the thinner, what you're doing is letting solids settle to the bottom and pouring off the now-clear thinner to use again.  With the wash-water from your water-based cleanup, the whole solution is going to have substances, like the various propanols and ethylene glycol, in it.  Still, in relatively small quantities (a gallon here or there of wash-water) pouring it around on the ground as described won't hurt. 

   Then there's always cheap kitty litter, LOL (non-clumping of course).   

   forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
   Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   Jeff | Aug 05, 2004 01:54am | #10

   FG

   I don't have running water (yet) in the shop.

   I carry a 5 gallon container in and set it on a shelf (It has a built in spigot).

   My sink has a drain pipe to the outdoors (no way to get to the septic system).

   I have a second sink that drains to a bucket for misc stuff I don't want to just dump on the ground.

   Not the best system, but I suppose it could be worse.

   And yes, every now and then I pour water from a brush onto the ground.

   I keep some kitty litter in the shop for some uses.

   My cat likes the clumping style (so do my dogs, heh heh.)

   Jeff

1. 
   forestgirl | Aug 05, 2004 03:34am | #12

   "Not the best system, but I suppose it could be worse."  No kidding!  Sounds good to me.

   "(so do my dogs, heh heh.)"  I won't burden you with info on my old (gone) coonhound's relationship with the cat box, LOL!

   "My cat likes the clumping style"  So do mine, I guess.  They've never complained anyway.

   Cheers!Jamieforestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

2. 
   Jeff | Aug 05, 2004 01:57am | #11

   FG

   Forgot to mention, I have pretty much always used solvent based finishes for the ease of disposal and clean-up.

   Also, I find it easier to spray in my old equipment.

   Jeff

4. 
   jackplane | Aug 05, 2004 08:34pm | #13

   With the new water based clearcoats, letting them run into drain basins is not recommended.

    It's best to let them evaporate,then dispose of the material as ordinary trash, unless you have a hazardous waste p/u or dropoff which is best of all.

1. 
   Jeff | Aug 05, 2004 09:58pm | #14

   Jackplane

   Hazardous waste pick-up is what I bring to the twice a year pick-up day.

   Needless to say, things tend to accumulate for then.

   I'm not surprised that the new clearcoats are not very friendly.

   Jeff

2. 
   forestgirl | Aug 06, 2004 03:30am | #15

   JP, could (would) you give some brand name examples?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>) 

1. 
   jackplane | Aug 09, 2004 04:17pm | #16

   You mean examples of clearcoat finishes?

   Well, many manufacturers make water-based polyurethanes,even calling them lacquer when they're not. Benjamin Moore's are called Mooregard, I think. As I mentioned in a previous thread, the product label stated, "May cause harm to reproductive organs". Many folks have the impression that these water based finshes are safer than solvent based ones, but they're not.

1. 
   forestgirl | Aug 09, 2004 06:52pm | #17

   Seems like the Minwax Polycrylic I used as an example above is the type of finish you're referring to.  The main concern when handling these finishes is to avoid prolonged skin exposure.  This is probably where alot of people go wrong, thinking because it's "water based" it's OK to work without gloves.

   With regard to disposal of washwater, obviously, there's not time to find the MSDS's of all possible waterbased finishes here.  However, reading the one for Polycrylic, we (hubby and I) didn't see anything that would cause concern for disposing of reasonable amounts of washwater on grass or via a municiple sewage system.

   Here's what it says under "Chronic Health Hazards":

   No ingredient in these products is an IARC, NTP or OSHA listed carcinogen.

   Ethylene Glycol is considered an animal teratogen. It has been shown to cause birth defects in rats and mice at high doses when given in drinking water or by gavage. There is no evidence to indicate it causes birth defects in humans.

   Prolonged overexposure to solvent ingredients in Section 2 may cause adverse effects to the liver and urinary systems.

   This is not to say (a) you'd want to pour full-strength stuff on your lawn or down the drain for disposal or (b) you'd want to get in your Brita pitcher of water in the fridge or (c) you'd want to pour gallons and gallons of washwater down the drain at once (etc., etc.)

   I'll have to ask Nick specifically what happens to the propanols and the ethylene glycol when the solution is poured on the ground.  When I posted before, he was giving me way more info than I could assimilate,being the engineer that he is LOL!, so I got him to "cut to the chase" before he finished explaining how those components get changed.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the  "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)