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Working on a plan for a Queen Size frame and panel bed. Can anyone provide guideance on the following: I’ve looked in some FW bed articles and Taunton’s ‘Beds’ book, but have not been able to find any rules of thumb.
What’s the minimum feasible width (in terms of strength) for the head and footboard rails (the rails that run the width of the bed)? Is 3.5 inches enough. The front of the bead has the 2 rails framing the panel plus a third rail below. The foot of the bead just has the 2 rails framing the panel.
What is the minimum feasible width for the bedrails (the ones connecting the head to the foot)?
I’m assuming that I need to use stock that’s milled to greater than 1 inch thick, not 3/4 stock, for the rails.
Thanks
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Guys I have opinions on Tom's questions and have a fairly good idea of the dimensions that I would use but he is asking for specific information about minimums (which I never use) so I do not want to risk misleading him given my relative lack of experience. I know many of you could provide him with the informations he is looking for so please do, even if it may not be a "well studied" analysis of minimum deminsions let him know the smallest that you would be comfortable designing to.
Tom, it may be easier to get an answer if you provide the dimensions that you plan to use or would like to use and then they can respond to that information more easily.
Will
*Here is a sketch. The width is about 65" to accomodate a 61 inch queen matresshttp://www.sba.muohio.edu/gattiktf/bed_sketch.gifThanks
*Judging from Miller's "Beds" book, rail width is 5" or greater for both the headboard/footboard rails and side rails. He seems pretty consistent with that. I'd make them as wide as possible as long as they don't visually kill the design. On the headboard and footboard, the bottom rails can be wider than the top rails.You're also right to assume the rail stock should be thicker than 4/4. I'd use as a minimum 5/4 stock, and preferably 6/4. Just as important is a secure attachment to the posts - wide and deep tenons or split tenons that fit well in the mortises, and careful attention to whatever side rail attachment you use.I hope this helps, but if it's too generic, maybe someone else can chime in. Your bed design looks very nice. You could take a look at similar designs or plans to see what dimensions were used. That should ease your mind a bit.Froed
*Hi TomI build lots of beds, and I'm comfortable with 6" as the MINIMUM width for the siderails (the ones connecting the headboard to the footboard). Really, I like 7-8" better, and I typically use 6/4 stock which finishes out a little at about 1 3/16" thick. This isn't carved in stone anywhere that I know of, but it is an opinion that I hold to firmly.A wider rail is inherently stronger when it comes to holding up the mattress & boxspring and not flexing during use. In addition, though, I'd have to stress the importance of a wide rail because it increases the amount of surface area (on the end-grain side) at the joint between the siderail and the headboard/footboard. More surface area means less wiggle room in the joint. For example, a 2" siderail would wiggle under a relatively light load, while an 18" siderail would require considerably more pressure to open up. That is an extreme example, but in my experience the principle still applies when it is a question of the difference between 5" and 7". I've used many different methods/products for this application, and finally came across my favorite about a year and a half ago. It requires a bit more work than some of the other bed hardware sets that you just screw on (you have to mortise in 8 pieces, with secondary mortises inset within them), but boy are they strong. I've had them on my own bed for over 2 years and it is still unshakeable. This hardware is a little over 5" long, so that requires a siderail at least that wide, and a wider one is even better because it provides more area on either side of the hardware(above and below) to keep the hardware from acting as a pivot (similar to having broad shoulders on a tenon). (In the dictionary under redundant it says, "See redundant").The hardware is sold all over. I get them through Woodcraft, since I teach there and like to support them. Here is their URL so you can see them online. Bed Rail Fastener:http://shop.woodcraft.com/woodcraft/product_family.asp?family_id=3269&pf_id=127456&mscssid=DVK7DL8A01LR8J81WHV7U4G126NGBRJ4&Gift=false&Giftid= Compare and contrast it with the No-Mortise Bed Rail Fittings http://shop.woodcraft.com/woodcraft/product_family.asp?family_id=3981&pf_id=142496&mscssid=DVK7DL8A01LR8J81WHV7U4G126NGBRJ4&Gift=false&Giftid= ... I haven't used them yet (don't have a reason to now!), and they might be just great, but I'd be inclined to think that at only 3" long, they wouldn't keep the joint as stiff as the longer ones above would. That is my gut feeling, anyway.Here's another option, available at Rockler (and elsewhere). I've used this and think it is fine but not as stiff as the previously-mentioned one, no matter how I positioned the parts:http://www.rockler.com/ecom7/findprod.cfm?&DID=6&sku=5288Regarding your other question about the width of the rails in the head & foot boards, you have to consider that the width of the rail is just one factor, given that you've got some pseudo-frame-and-panel structures there. With the middle stiles joining the top and bottom rails on the footboard, and the panels possibly glued in (if they're plywood), you can look at the whole sub-assembly as being a pretty strong thing connecting the corner posts, with a lot of surface area for joints. I bring this up because some bed designs only have one rail running across, and this is quite different. In your case, I would think that 4" is a good ballpark for the width of each rail (top & bottom). Well, responses like this make me hope Taunton is getting a good deal on bandwidth. The reason for my droning on so much is that I feel that beds are important objects to overbuild. They get used constantly and for many years, and because they are supposed to be relaxing places to spend time, people need them to feel stable and supportive. On some level, however small, there is a psychological need to address here, and I think folks appreciate that consideration. This may be obvious, but that hasn't stopped me so far, so I'll plod ahead with my final comment: beds are very large, which means that their parts are essentially big, long levers set up to pry each other in different directions. Under normal use, end tables don't have to bear a whole lot of weight or movement-- beds do, so plan accordingly.Best,Chris GleasonGleason Tableworkswww.interestingfurniture.com Any other thoughts on the subject?
*Tom,It just so happens I am planning on making a similar bed. My headboard is taller and I have more panels but the essentials are the same. As was mentioned earlier it is a good idea to look at some similar designs to get an overall idea of the dimensions and specs. Restoration Hardware has a similar bed on display. If you have one located near one I suggest you check it out. Everything that was discussed here (+5" and 6/4 side rails, rails for the headboard and footboard are 6/4 as well and about 4" wide) you will see on this solid cherry bed. Good luck.
*Hey Chris great website. I especially like the plug for Rivendell. I'll have to check your shop out next time I am in the area.
*Hi Clay--Thanks, give a holler when you're around and I'll make sure to be in!I've got a close friend who works for Rivendell, so I've kept up on their stuff over the years-- pretty nice bikes, to put it mildly.BestChris GleasonGleason Tableworkswww.interestingfurniture.com
*Upstairs is a Stickly king size bed. (yes real Stickly) The rails are 4 inches by 1 1/2 and they hold up just fineunder, well you know, I'm not a light weight and she who must be obeyed has added a decent amount to her stats too..;-)
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