Has anyone purchased Delta’s new 10″ left-tilt Unisaw with the front-mounted tilt and blade height controls? If so can you give me a review as to how it’s working for you?
Has anyone purchased Delta’s new 10″ left-tilt Unisaw with the front-mounted tilt and blade height controls? If so can you give me a review as to how it’s working for you?
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Replies
They seem to keep extending the ship date. My local dealer says it's now scheduled for May.
I id get an E-Mail from one of the other WW magazines that they have had one delivered and are setting it up but I review article won't be until later in the summer
Has anyone looked at the total cost of this saw. They sell it ala carte'. By the time you add it all up you could easily buy the SawStop. It worked out to around $5200.00 by the time it lands in my shop. I lost my paper that I had exact figures on, but the above price is very close.
I know what you mean. I am a little confused by the listings also. I asked my dealer and it seems that much of the basic stuff is included. The mobile base is an option(no surprise there). Unlike Saw stop they don't hit you with another $500.00 for shipping. My extra cost will be $50.00 liftgate to my house. There is no doubt there will be some extra cost I but it remains to be seen what it is.
I've used three different SawStops and they are very nice and well built but they like anything are not without their issues one of which is a deal breaker for me. Someone has been kind enough to give me some advise on workarounds but in the end it makes it a real pain to use and may compromise the safety. At the price the SawStop is up to I can add a little more and get a European Slider which if the Delta doesn't work out is my next choice.
Edited 4/26/2009 5:57 am ET by RonK
Edited 4/26/2009 5:58 am ET by RonK
Edited 4/26/2009 8:24 am ET by RonK
Ron,
In addition to the lift gate charge, there is also a additional charge of $80.00 to deliver to a residence, go figure?
What did you find on SawStop that bugged you. We used them at the Cabinet school I went to. And they get used harder there than they will anywhere else. We all learned the do's and don't's about them and I have not had a single problem with them.
The dealbreaker for me getting the new Uni-Saw is that I have a 15 son. I couldn't live with myself if anything happened to him. Plus he plans on being a surgeon, a table saw accident would put an end to his dreams.
Taigert
You can't take small blades (7 1/4") which I use a lot. Their are work arounds but after trying a few they are time consuming and in some cases possibly hazardous.
The dust collection using man made material isn't that good(not really a problem for me as I don't use much) and clogs up the saw tilt mech and is a pain to repair.
The riving knife doesn't have a really secure feel when inserting. One saw I used had a trip when the riving knife fell into the blade(not by me, but I can understand how it could happen). I
I've used 3 different SawStops and all three have had non-flesh related trips, one while I was watching. If you do any green woodworking(contractor style) you can get blade trips even if the saw says you can cut. My dealer has had to take the saw back from at least one customer because of this.
I am not trying to bash the saw it is very good and for many people it's a no brainer if they can afford it. Once I learned about most of the problems they can be avoided but the small blade thing is a deal breaker for me.
I had considered keeping my old saw for using small blades but it is a space issue and I feel most of the safety gain comes from the riving knife system. From what I've heard the Delta system is much easier to use and adjust.
It kind of bothered me to go to a facility and see that the riving knives were not being used on the SawStops. I guess in a production environment they are like the blade guard splitter which are the first thing removed if they are more of a pain to use then the perceived worth. The people who had these saw told me they were not impressed with them but then again they had lot of heavy duty industrial equipment so their requirements are different then most of us and I would think I would never experience the same problems. My friend has one and he has had no dust collection issues but he doesn't use man made material(MDF) and keeps an extremely clean working environment.
Buy the saw you will love it and will certainly feel better about having you son involved. Good training and safety practice will eliminate much of the need for the safety features and you shouldn't ignore them because you have a excellent "seatbelt". I've had a lot of use/safety training on tablesaws and although I still have much respect for them the knowledge of the forces involved help to insure that the setups are safe ones and my hand are nowhere near a danger zone. If I could use small blades I would probably buy one also.
Edited 4/26/2009 12:56 pm ET by RonK
Edited 4/26/2009 12:56 pm ET by RonK
Good comments on the SS. I found that the dust collection needed addressing. Just curious...what is the reason for the 7 1/4 inch blades?Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
Delta had a prototype at the Woodworkers Show in Kansas City in February. However, they did not turn it on. They told us that the introductory price was $2,700 which included the mobile base, which they did not have at the show. It looked like a nice piece of equipment with lots of features. However, I bought the SawStop instead. The three primary reasons were the SawStop safety break and several people in the woodworking equipment business said that the customer service with Delta is not that good in addition, I was reluctant to buy a brand new product.I have had the SawStop for about three months and I like it a lot. And fortunately, I have not had the break trip.I have a dust collector on order. It is not particularly easy to clean.Domer
Even hooked up to a dust collector, it was not the best. That 4" hole was only connected to a not sealed area around the blade. There is a lot of dust escaping from there to the bottom of the saw. So I enlarged the hole to fit my main 7" diameter DC line. See attached pics. Much better, but still needs work. I am sure that if they had made a curved sloped floor ending at the DC hole, it would get damn near all of it. I am going to try and find a sheet metal guy to build me an insert.Cheers,Peter
Better life through Zoodles and poutine...
If you make your own furniture banding you will find that the process will require many small pieces with a precision cut which are then glued and often recut and glues again. Once you have finished creating the main brick you will be slicing your banding from it is helpful to get as many pieces sliced from the brick as possible as making it is a labor intensive process. The Frued Diablo 7 1/4" has a .59 kerf. When making the parts many times the blade has only 1/16th - 1/8" exposed which is very safe even if you are working close to the blade. A zero clearance throat plates is a necessity when working in this manner. The are also hold down feather type boards which can be clamped over the blade to help very thin pieces of wood from flopping around during the cut.
Once you get used to using the blades, depending on the type of work you do with the saw, you will find many cases were precision cuts on small thin pieces of wood(Desk Gallery) are easily accomplished with the small blades.
You can find the blades at most home centers and they are usually marked for wet lumber, have carbide teeth(24, 40, or 60) and sell for anywhere from $20 on up depending on the number of teeth. A self made zero clearance is an absolute necessity.
As a retired FireFighter/Paramedic I have seen more table saw accidents than you could imagine over the years. Human vs. Table Saw, Table Saw wins hands down, every time. And the suprising thing is that whenever we went on a run for a piece of machinery getting someone tangled up in it. The victim would allways be someone who has been using the machine all the time. Most of the time it was a Pro. Very seldom a greenhorn, their to scared to get near that blade. So like they say it's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.
As to the problems you described about the SawStop are not ones I have ever come across. We had 6 of them at our school, and we run them really hard as bad as a production shop if not worst. And we would run tons of MDF through them and never any problems with not clearing from around the trunions or jamming up any where. We got them right after they came on the market, and we help SawStop discover a few bugs with them. Such as needing to adjust the the gap after having a blade sharpened. Sharpening makes the diameter of the blade smaller, and if you don't adjust the saw it will trip. We had one go off when a metal tape measure touched the blade. And one for wet wood, the person forgot to turn the key to turn off the system, and one went off over a screw that was in cantact with a finger and a blade. All the fault of the operator, the saw was only doing as it was designed to do.
Out of curiousity why would you need to use 7 1/4" bade on the table saw. I didn't think they would fit the arbor on the table saw?
I my have problems with the Delta jamming with sawdust as well they are both using the same idea for dust collection around the blade. I still can't get over the price!
Check it out before jumping in, I'd let them work out the bugs for a couple of months and see how they are doing before I would lay that kind of money on a brand new product.
Talk to ya later,
Taigert
The problems were real and I was there. The dust collection was an industrial unit mounted to the building and none of the other machines had the same problem. Having said that I didn't install it(and wouldn't know how on that large a unit) so I don't now if there were other issues.
Well I am interested in seeing the Delta up close and on the one hand they have had many years of experience building saws as opposed to Sawstop whose first saw they every built was the one your school bought. I'm mostly kidding about that as I think the saw is fine but I would have also waited a little on that also. For a school no question about it. The Delta seems to have a number of features which shows they thought the process through but of course I haven't seen it yet so I really don't know.
I think I answered most of the small blade question above. There are more uses of small blades and the only person I know who doesn't use them is my friend with the SawStop. I talked to the company and it's understandable that they don't feel its anything that needs to be addressed. Another longtime SawStop user gave me some good advise on a few work around and I looked into it but decided the juice isn't worth the squeeze and I'm going to look elsewhere.
Your right about people in production shops being careless. Years ago I worked in a drop forge during the summer and saw some really stupid moves on the part of experienced people. I've been in some schools where I physically had to turn my head(I'm really serious) watching what the instructor was doing in front of students. I worked in a couple of hospitals while I was in college and I've never ridden a motorcycle since. Can't say I remember any table saw accidents but there must have been some.
SawStop is a really good saw but maybe not for everybody. I think they should consider larger saws. A 14" blade making a big cut in front of your face- now that's scary.
Ron,
You should talk to Tommy MacDonald otherwise known as T-Chisel he does the same sort of inticate work you are talking about. A lot of the period pieces, Federal, and such have beautiful inlay work on them. On his podcasts he shows how this is done, one of my goals is to give his methods a try. Perhaps even try some of the peices from that era, who know maybe there is a Chipendale in my future. Check it out if you have never seen his podcasts, they are very well done.
http://www.thomasmacdonald.com
Taigert
Ron,The problem with the riving knife not being correctly installed and then striking the blade was a problem on early models of the SawStop but a design change cleared up the problem. The improved mount can be installed on older saws.Almost any blade that you can get in a 7 1/4" size is also available in an 8" diameter, though you may have to order it. An 8" blade will work on a SS with the dado head brake cartridge.John White
Shop Manager for FWW Magazine, 1998-2006
Unfortunately there is no 8" equivalent to the 7 1/4 (.59 kerf). A couple come close and I could use them if I had to but if I get a new Unisaw I don't have to worry about it and and keep using the small blades I have. I have been told about a method to bypass the problem but I'm not comfortable with the process.
Thanks for the information on the riving knife. I think I am going to be seeing the people that had the accident tonight and will let them know about the retrofit being available. Good information, thanks
Ron - You keep mentioning this bypass. What is it? The only one I know off is to bypass the system all together. I'd say bypassing the system every so often is a better trade of than not having the brake at all. Is there another, less known way to do so?Chris
Edited 5/6/2009 1:16 pm ET by hdgis1
The SawStop brake will trip with wood or other material that conducts electricity well, which includes wet pressure-treated wood, aluminum, etc.
So, the SawStop has a feature where you can test the material before committing to making the cut. It will tell you whether or not there is a chance that the brake will fire when it shouldn't. If there's a chance of a false trip, you can disable the brake for that cut.
-Steve
"So, the SawStop has a feature where you can test the material before committing to making the cut"
It will tell you if you need to bypass but if you test the wood it says ok and it changes it mind halfway through the safety mechanism will trigger. I think they fine tuned the software to help lessen any problems with this but not owning one and can only go by my dealer's experience with some of their customers. It doesn't sound like a common problem with people using kiln dried wood but people in the construction trade are a different matter
Yes - Im am very familiar with the saw as I sell them. I'm just curious as to what Rons secret bypass is.Chris
Oops, sorry. I misunderstood the question. Can I get partial credit for answering what I thought was the real question?-Steve
cre...Chris :)
Yes there is but it's a little shaky in my opinion and could lead to complications.
Well what is it?Chris
Where did you find the prices? Or did you talk to your dealer? What I'd really be interested in is the Unisaw with a Unifence.
I got the prices from Woodcrafts web site. The price I posted was for the big saw, the 5hp 52". They only had 2 saws listed.
taigert
I'm not seeing a $5,200 price tag on the 5HP Unisaw when I look at the Woodcraft site. The saw package (in round numbers) is $3,200 for the 5HP which includes the 52" Biesemeyer, the extension table, legs, accessory drawer, etc.-everything ready to run. There is an excess weight charge of $150, lift gate service to a residence is $80, and estimated shipping of $155 for $3,430 total. Add the mobile base for $245 and it's sitting in my cart for $3,680 delivered.The 3HP model is $200 less than the numbers above and dropping down to a 3HP/36" Biesemeyer would reduce the total another $125. Apparently there is no option, at least at this time, for a Unifence on the new Unisaw.
Greg,
I thought the same thing till I spoke with he local Woodcraft to find out about delivery time. Everything is sold seppertly. i was floored, it also made my mind up and I went for the big SawStop instead.
Taigert
I'm wondering if the person you spoke to at the local Woodcraft is mistaken. If you click on the Information tab for this saw on the Woodcraft site, it lists the following:Includes:
Bi-Level Dust Extraction for improved dust collection
Single-Cast Trunnion System provides increased accuracy
Sure-Lock Dual Front Cranks provides convenient access to dual front cranks
Precision Bevel Gauge for ease of visibility
Tool-Free Split Guard for improved blade line of sight
2-Position, Quick Change Guard System for improved safety and functionality
On-Board Storage is expandable and conveniently located underneath the table board
52" BIESEMEYER fence and tube
Black precision BIESEMEYER fence body
UNISAW black table board 52" BIESEMEYER fence
Black 2" x 2" x 34-1/2" fence legs
BIESEMEYER standard accessory drawer
5 Year Warranty
Greg,
I never seen that, just a list of items with prices. The salesman said it had I left the store.No reason for them to call to correct the mix up seen as I had just ordered the SawStop.
T
I forgot to mention, the SawStop is an excellent choice and I'm sure you will be happy with it. Even at the prices I listed for the Unisaw, it would be a tough call not to add the additional amount and get a SS. The new Unisaw, I expect, will be a fine saw also but it is at a lofty price point at +$3K. At +$5K, it would be one had sell, at least to put one in my shop. But then, I'm not planning on replacing my Jet Xacta any time soon, if ever, so all the new iron looks pricy to me!
Your local woodcraft was mistaken. Each item can be purchased separately (like most saws) and as needed. Would recommend the additional thin kerf riving knife and the zero clearance inserts. Your still not to $5000Chris
Chris,
If thats the case, it makes the Uni-Saw a lot more attractive. The salesman said it was what he called ala cart'e wrong sybmbol, oh well. He thought it was priced the same as the SawStop.
I've allready ordered the 5-hp 52" SawStop, thats OK, seen as I have a 15 y.o. son who will be also operating the saw. It will help calm ny wife's fear of him cutting his hands off.
Thanks for the correction,
Taigert
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