Replies

1. 
   RalphBarker | Oct 10, 2010 05:29pm | #1

   Reference?

   Do you have a citation or reference for this, Dan? Something like a news release?

1. 
   BruceS | Oct 10, 2010 08:27pm | #2

   Delta down sizing ?

   Tomorrow 10/11/10.   I will talk with our purchasing dept.  and have them call our Delta Rep. to see if there is anything factual about this claim.   It maybe like pulling teeth.   If it is true Delta will want to unload a lot of stock before dropping that kind of bomb.

1. 
   RalphBarker | Oct 10, 2010 09:31pm | #3

   Yep

   "If it is true Delta will want to unload a lot of stock before dropping that kind of bomb."

   I guess we'll know when there are all kinds of sales at their current distributors, eh?

   Delta has already suffered under B&D management. I was hoping that Stanley might reverse that trend after purchasing B&D.

2. 
   swenson | Oct 11, 2010 01:54am | #4

   Delta will want to unload a lot of stock

   Isn't that insider trading and very against the law?  I'm not a lawyer, but I've played one on TV.

1. 
   ResIpsaLoquitur | Oct 12, 2010 10:45am | #7

   I am a lawyer and that is NOT insider trading.

2. 
   bones | Oct 11, 2010 08:51am | #5

   hope it aint so

   Would not be surprised though.  I look at what happened to the porter cable brand.  I recently looked at some porter cable stuff in a big box store and was shocked at how cheap they appeared.   I just don't see how a purchase from B&D by Stanley would be a big step up.   I did really like the new unisaw that I looked at and it had some great features.  Unfortunately, at the price point it's at the saw stop just kills it due to the extra safety feature.  Imagine if the owners (back then) had licensed the sawstop technology.  

1. 
   RalphBarker | Oct 11, 2010 12:31pm | #6

   big-box PC

   My impression is that manufacturers, including PC, often make special versions of their tools for the big-box stores, with the engineering adjusted as necessary to reach the store's desired price point. There is sometimes (often?) a subtle difference in the model number to differentiate the products. The "real" tools are usually available from traditional distributors, however. But, in my view, the result is the same - a lessening/cheapening of the brand. Unfortunately, the mega-merged manufacturers are driven more by the bean counters who seem to be only interested in the next quarter's stock performance, rather than the long-term viability of the company.

1. 
   Cincinnati10 | Oct 12, 2010 03:17pm | #8

   Big-Box Version of Power Tools

   I have heard this rumor for years, but have yet to discover any tool that I bought at Lowes or HD is a special version (ie dumbed down or cheaper) of a manufacturers regular power tool. I spoke with PC and DeWalt repair techs about this. They deny it. I do not believe a DW735 planer at Lowes is different than the same model planer at traditional distributors. Believing this is claiming both the big box stores and the manufacturers are intentionally deceiving customers.

   Box Stores do buy "special versions" of building materials. For example, Pergo has a product line that is only marketed through Lowes and a separate line that is only marketed through Home Depot. But each are sold under a unique name that you cannot purchase anywhere else. There is no deception here and I don't see evidence of deception in the power tool industry.

1. 
   bones | Oct 12, 2010 03:31pm | #9

   just to clarify

   I don't know about the big box tools special versions or not.  In general delta and portercable are not what they use to be by a long shot.   I have some of the older tools and they will probably last a lifetime, but if they do die, they will not be relplaced with the same label.  It hurts to, I was a huge fan of porter cable and delta.   There is a market for quality tools. The unfortuante thing is that once a brand starts messing with the brand in the lower end folks start to question the whole brand.   Those that have decided to stay away from that end have survived so low cost is not the only answer i.e. Lie-Nielsen, Festool just to name a couple.  

1. 
   mvflaim | Oct 12, 2010 08:09pm | #10

   I thought PC and Delta were refocusing their tool line to serious woodworkers the last few years. The new Delta Unisaw is one heck of a saw and is made in the US. I also saw an ad today where Delta is coming out with a brand new drill press that looks pretty nice. PC new power tools that have been released the past few years look and feel better than the older stuff they had. Why would Stanley change that? I think this rumor is just that, a rumor. I don't see where Stanley would benefit from nearly killing off the entire line of Delta.

   Some of you guys are coming across like Stanley is an A-hole of a company that doesn't care about quality. I don't know where that comes from other than the fact that they lost focus on making quality hand planes in the 1970's. Even so, they just reintorduced a new line of SweetHart bench planes and chisels. Give them some time and they will be right there with Lie-Nielsen and Veritas as strong competitors.

2. 
   purduedan | Oct 13, 2010 08:11am | #11

   The source of the downsizing is our local Delta dealer.  They are selling a lot of Delta tools and add ons at cost or below.  They are extremely upset with Delta after being told of the downsizing.  They are considering dropping Delta and picking up Powermatic. 

3. 
   RalphBarker | Oct 13, 2010 10:09am | #12

   local dealers

   Thanks, Dan. That puts it in context. It might be that Delta is actually dropping the dealer, rather than the other way around. The hardware store that my Dad managed had been a full-line Delta dealer (meaning they had at least one of every machine Delta made in stock) for decades. When the first round of mergers took place in the '70s, the store was dropped because their sales volume was "too low". Thus, the "downsizing" might relate to the number of dealers, and the local store took the comment in the wrong way. Or, maybe not. We'll see, I suppose. I have noticed some of their traditional machines dropping from the Delta website. 

3. 
   9619 | Oct 13, 2010 11:05am | #13

   Dan,

   I read your post and the responses with great interest.  

   Then I wrote to a friend who works for Black and Decker, which is now owned by Stanley.   He is high up enough to know what is going on.    Here is his response to me:

   "As far as Delta is concerned, we have discontinued some items, mostly because of UL restraints (things like contractor’s saws and hybrid saws fall into that category).  We also recently got out of some metalworking items like horizontal bandsaws, metal working presses, etc…  In total this could lead to the spread of rumors, which proliferate on themselves, but that’s really the extent of it."

   Have fun.

   Mel

4. 
   flairwoodworks | Nov 26, 2010 01:53am | #17

   Delta=Machinery

   On a related note, I noticed that the scroll saw we are used to seeing in the yellow DeWalt colours is now gray.  Talking to the Delta rep, they are focusing each company - Delta is woodworking machinery, DeWalt is construction, Porter Cable is woodworking hand-held power tools.

1. 
   RalphBarker | Nov 26, 2010 10:03am | #18

   fuzzy focus

   " . . . they are focusing each company - Delta is woodworking machinery, DeWalt is construction, Porter Cable is woodworking hand-held power tools"

   That was largely the traditional focus of those companies, even before they were conglomerated. But, one has to wonder why a new table saw would come out under the Porter Cable brand. (It's OEMed from an offshore manufacturer, of course, but still.)

5. 
   CharlieL | Mar 07, 2012 04:54pm | #19

   Deleted

1. 
   Jfrostjr | Nov 07, 2010 09:48am | #14

   Quality vs Price

   As Pogo used to say. "We have met the enemy and he is us."

   We have only ourselves to blame but I see change ahead.By focusing on price-only we got lousy tools, charges for everything from pillows to beverages and carry-ons on airlines and a significant majority of our consumer goods manufactured out the US and to lower quality standards,

   In our segment (woodworking) there has been a swing to Festool, LieNielson and Veritas. None of them cheap. This does not even start to mention the ultra-high quality handmade tools that are beginning to grace our shops. 

   I have hopes that a wave of "VALUE MINDED" people will begin to reverse the trend of "I buy the cheapest product I can find." Product satisfaction and customer service will again reign supreme.

   Frosty

   I hope I live long enough. 

1. 
   RalphBarker | Nov 07, 2010 05:49pm | #15

   Value over price

   I'd love to see that mini-trend extend to other market segments, Frosty, but I have my doubts. For that to happen, we need to convince the guys on Wall Street that they don't need 100% increase in stock value every month. For them to do that, they need to convince the union pension funds of the same thing. Then, there's the whole consumer conversion issue.

2. 
   birchwoodguy | Nov 07, 2010 11:16pm | #16

   If it comes with a cord - its junk

   Your right Frosty, we have ourselves to blame.  When we buy one tool over another because it was 10-dollars cheaper, without regard for the quality, WE have "voted' for the lower quality tool.  

   One of the posters above questioned the quality of tools from a single manufacturer but "made for the big-box store", I can tell you I have seen it myself: two identical looking 3/8" Dewalt corded drills.  One from Homed__t and one from a solid industrial tool supplier.  The big box version was much lighter weight than the other.  Oneday the lighter one fell 25 feet from a roof job onto a concrete floor and shattered.  All the bearings were nylon style sleeve bearings and many of the gears were white plastic, not metal.  My foreman on the job was so surprised he opened the other (heavier) drill to see what was inside.  Guess what, there were real metal bearings and all metal gears.  You get what you pay for (or less).  My guys call this "internal couterfeiting" and it seems it stems from week-end warriors wanting "good" tools, but not wanting the price they come with.  The company makes a replica of its own tools at a cheaper price designed for "moderate use" and sells them in the big box stores. The weekend warriors may outnumber the real tradesmen in the quantity of items they buy and therefore they get the attention of the company.

   All this leads me to an expression I heard once: "I never threw out a tool that didn't come with a cord" (was before the cordless tool trend) but has some real sense to it.  I can honestly say I have never been unhappy with a quality tool purchase, no matter how much it cost.  I was looking at one of my Veritas Hand-planes today and thought it will still be a good tool long after I'm gone.

   Robert.