Replies

1. 
   Phil_Twiss | Jul 30, 2002 07:57pm | #1

   Some of the Older FWW issues I think have info on the technique for hand cut dados, don't ask which I couldn't say but I bet they have Mike Dunbar involved in them somewhere.

   From memory (I have never needed to do this myself apart from small antique repairs):

   1) mark out accurately with sharp marking knife, both sides of dado and end stop if required.  This includes marking depth at either end cut so you can make a clean job of it.

   2) Using a sharp tenon saw cut to inside of line (this needs to be good as this is the actual register of your shelf).  The best thing to do if you aren't dead-eye-dick with the saw is to use a piece of wood clamped along your marked line as a guide.  Remember which side you are wasting (easy is to miss, hard to make right).  Some guys also use a depth guide of some description clamped to the saw blade (usually just a piece of wood).

   3) Once you have sawn almost to the depth line dig out a nice sharp chisel and remove the waste to most of the depth.  At the marked end/s pare back to the line to prevent breaking out during your final cleanup.

   4) Now you have a couple of options.  You may have one of the following: Router plane, dado plane or Old Woman's Tooth router.  If you have any of these things will be easy since all you need to do is set the depth required and clean up the bottom of the dado.  If not the you will find it a real pain unless you can make up a guide which will hold your chisel at a suitable angle and depth.  Any method using a block of wood, with an angled square hole and wedge (the angle isn't crucial as long as approximates the cutting angle of a plane) or an angled surface with a clamping arrangement will do.  The key thing is to get a good cutting action minus blade movement.

   Note: It is crucial that you chisel is truly sharp and fairly close to the dado width otherwise things will note bode well, especially with nasty grained wood.  Also don't take too deep a cut. 

   I think I have given you enough info to get going, I just realised writing this that I have done more hand dados than I realised and they are actually quite fun.  I wouldn't recommend trying to fit ply shelves as they won't allow much scope for adjustment as the best way to fit them is to leave you dado a hair undersize and sneak up to it by planing the shelf, (unless you have a stanley 79 or a pair of 88,89 planes, which I am finally getting in the next couple of weeks, yay).

   If you have any questions just ask as I have probably been a bit vague since I have a bit too much on my mind currently.

   Hope it helps.  Post photos once you sort it out, would love to see.

   Cheers

   Phil

1. 
   Alan | Jul 31, 2002 02:28am | #3

   Phil,

   Jeez.  Your post wasn't up when I started typing out mine.  We must have been answering at the same time--and you're the faster typist!

   Oh well.  At least we gave the same answer.  (Great minds think alike?)

   Alan

2. 
   Alan | Jul 30, 2002 08:33pm | #2

   Adgustum,

   I'm assuming that by 'dadoes' you are referring to a cross-grain groove in the middle of a panel, the kind of groove used for shelves.  They are easily done--even with few tools.

   There are hand tools that are made to do this job.  If you have anything that resembles a plow plane, a router plane or a shoulder plane, with the use of a knife and a guide fence of some kind, you can easily cut dadoes.  But if you already have such a plane you probably wouldn't be asking this question.

   So I guess the question is how to cut dadoes without using a plane.  The easiest way would be to use a good back saw, a marking knife and a chisel.

   First, use the marking knife to mark out the edges of the dado, keeping the knife perpendicular to the stock.  Then, cut those lines a bit deeper.  You may find that a knife with a little thinner blade is easier to cut deeper.

   Next, use the corner of a sharp chisel or the knife to turn those lines into a little 'V' shaped trench.  On the waste side of the line use your sharp edge to cut at an angle into the deepened layout line, and remove the cut-out wood.

   Next, use your back saw to saw the sides of the dado.  Use the trench to start your saw cut.  It's handy to put a piece of tape on the saw blade at the depth you want the dado; or you can clamp a stop block onto the saw with a couple C clamps or spring clamps.  Saw each side of the dado to the proper depth, making sure to keep the saw vertical.

   Now comes the fun part.  With a sharp chisel that's a little narrower than your dado zip out the waste.  It really is that easy.  Start on the far edge and work back towards yourself.  The first thing is to remove the waste down to the bottom of the dado on the far edge (with the chisel pointing into the groove).  This is to eliminate the possibility of tear out.  Then turn the chisel around and pare out the wood. It goes very fast.

   Once you have the waste removed you can use your chisel bevel down to clean up the bottom, or you can use a router plane.

   If you want a stop dado you can still use this method.  Mark out and cut the trench as before.  Then drill or chisel out a hole the width and depth of the dado where the dado stops.  This makes it easier to saw out the sides of the dado.  Then zip out the wood.

   It's harder to explain than it is to do; and I find it's really fun.

   Alan

1. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Aug 01, 2002 08:15am | #11

   Hi Adgustum/Alan/Phil,

   Found this instruction on how to hand-cut housings - pictures tell a thousand words:

   http://www.gre.ac.uk/~eduweb/showcase/d&t/schools/resmat/woodjoints/housing.htm

   Also, their root directory on how to cut other joints by hand:

   http://www.gre.ac.uk/~eduweb/showcase/d&t/schools/resmat/woodjoints/

   Cheers,

   Eddie

1. 
   BG | Aug 01, 2002 01:28pm | #12

   Eddie...terriffic web site, thanks

   Alan and Phil....twins?..come on fess up...lol

3. 
   lwilliams | Jul 31, 2002 09:22pm | #4

   You can use a plow plane or a dado plane.

   Stanley offered the #39 dado plane which is one of the most unpleasant and painful planes to use. I think of it as torture with a plane tote. There's just no comfortable way to hold and use it. Old wooden dado planes, on the other hand, are wonderful. Most of the old wooden dado planes I see are 7/8" but smaller sizes can be found. Make sure any you consider haven't warped and the nicker iron is in good shape.

   Dado planes aren't a lot of help for stopped dadoes and you'll have to revert to the back saw method mentioned by others for stopped dadoes.

1. 
   sschefer | Jul 31, 2002 09:54pm | #5

   Isn't there also something called a router plane. Seems to me I've seen one somewhere. It looks almost like a scraper I think.

1. 
   Phil_Twiss | Aug 01, 2002 05:15am | #6

   There is, and I think its still available through tool catalogues, in fact its in the woodcraft catalogue for $74.99.   The name of this beast is a #71. Stanley and record made them with other makers doing variations of one kind or another.  It has a little brother which is the #271 which is pretty handy for inlay work, or if you are that way inclined, tiny little dadoes.

   I bought one (#71)on ebay recently and with sharp cutters it is a little beauty.

   Hope this helps

   Cheers

   Phil

2. 
   Phil_Twiss | Aug 01, 2002 05:20am | #7

   View Image

   Here's a pic of the #71 Stanley

3. 
   Alan | Aug 01, 2002 05:20am | #8

   Slim,

   Yep.  Stanley still makes two router planes, the 71 and its little brother the 271.  They don't look much like a scraper though.  They're basically a platform with a post kind of a thing that extends below the platform, the cutter is on the bottom of the post.  The 71 comes with three irons, it has handles, all sorts of adjusting devices, a shoe, a depth setter, a fence, and so on.  The 271 is just a bare platform and post/cutter

   I own both.  The irons are more difficult to sharpen than most edge tools, but once they are well honed both routers work very well.

   Perhaps you're thinking of Lie-Nielsen's beading tool.  It comes with a blade that has two spring steel router-plane like cutters.  They're supposed to work like a router plane.  They don't work at all well for making grooves or dadoes; but they do work pretty well for leveling the bottom of a groove made by other means.

   To get a pretty good look at the Stanleys you can log on to Garrett-Wade.  They have a nice photograph of both along with a good description.  (As always, no affiliation.)

   Alan

1. 
   Phil_Twiss | Aug 01, 2002 05:31am | #9

   Hey Alan, what's going on here?  This is weird, we must stop the synchronous replies to this post. I nearly fell over when I saw your post go up.

   Phil

1. 
   Alan | Aug 01, 2002 11:28pm | #13

   Phil,

   Jeez times two!

   We really should communicate better.  Obviously only one of us needs to answer.

   Alan

4. 
   eddiefromAustralia | Aug 01, 2002 07:27am | #10

   Adgustum,

   very good instruction in the previous posts - exactly the way that trade are taught to cut this joint - a router plane is used to clean up the bottom of the housing (US dado) if available, if not, the bottom of the trench is hidden anyway - just make sure that it doesn't foul the other component (usually a shelf).

   I'm sure that Alan/Phil didn't mean it to sound that way, but when you're chiseling out the waste, don't point the chisel towards yourself as you 'zip' out the waste, as it might zip into you if you slip.

   Instead, work with the chisel pointing away from you, starting from the edge of the board and cut down until you are about 1mm above the base of the trench at the end to about 2-3mm deep in the middle of the board, then turn the board around and repeat this from the other edge. You end up with a sort of 'tent' type base in the trench to start with. Then, once you've got this, start paring down the work from the middle to the outsides until you have a flat bottom to the trench, cut to the correct depth.

   As Alan said, easy to do, harder to describe.

   Cheers,

   Eddie

   Edited 8/1/2002 12:30:52 AM ET by eddie

   Edited 8/1/2002 12:32:39 AM ET by eddie

   
   

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   Edited 8/1/2002 1:12:50 AM ET by eddie