I have a Bosch 10″ table saw and I need to cut sheet material from time to time — by myself.
Today, I had to cut a 4’x4′ piece of 1/2″ MDF; heavy and awkward. Although I set up a couple of roller-top stands (one to the side and one to the rear), I could not cut 4-3/8″ strips without binding the blade or ending up with slightly uneven pieces. A cabinet saw is not in the budget, there’s no room for it, and I don’t need it enough to justify even thinking about it.
What are the techniques I can use to enable me to cut a sheet such as this by myself on my small saw in the middle of the garage? Are there extension tables that fold away but would help in this situation?
Thanks for your suggestions,
Rich
Replies
I know this might be heresy to some, but have you considered a good straight edge and your circular saw with a couple of saw horses?
Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
For what it is worth.. I fully agree with Mark.. You said 4X4 sheet. Try a 1 inch 4X8 MDF sometime without a FULL table to lay it on.
I made a pretty nice out-feed table for my TS and works nice.. BUT.. Now I need room for that 4X8 IN-FEED table! Dang.. I can't win....
Really.. In the long run, the extra step doing like Mark said saves ya' ALOT of grief.
By the way.. When I do it Marks way I lay my wood on a sheet of rigid foam insulation. Supports the cut-off and helps from getting the sheet all banged up when dropping it on the horses...
Sometimes I wish I still had my old shop made panel-saw.. No room so I gave it away.. DAMN!
Actually, yes. It occurred to me after I posted the message that I could return to how I cut wood when my circular saw was the only power saw I had. This would probably be the most expedient solution as it requires no other building of jigs (and their subsequent storage) or other fussing.Thanks,Rich
I've mounted multiple rollers on sawhorses with blocks gauged to the height of the saw table.
The trick is to make your support as wide as or wider than what you're cutting.
YMMV
If you don't mind a bit of extra waste, you can cut the strips 1/4" wider than needed and run them through again at the correct width. You can also cut the sheet in a multiple of the needed width + the kerf for each cut. The strips will be a lot easier to run through and you can be more accurate. I would also use a feather board, but the first thing I would do is make sure that the saw is set up really well. You don't want any kickback when the strips are narrow like this.
Thanks very much. I thought of trying this, too. Returning to the circular saw with the metal guide clamped to the wood seems to be the majority view and makes sense to me, too.Rich
Set up a couple of sawhorses and use a guide and circular saw. With the right blade and a good guide, you'll make cuts as good as those on the table saw.
I do all my first cuts in sheet material this way and save the table saw for the more manageable sizes.
Cutting sheets of this size is difficult on any saw -- unless you have an outfeed table, and an extension table (to the right of the blade).
The simplest solution in your case would be to enlist the help of another person to help you support the sheet as you cut.
Or, how about building a rolling cabinet to function as a support table -- about 3' wide and about 4' long. Build it so it is the same height as the saw (actually a 1/4' shorter), on casters. Roll it into place, lock it and saw away.
It would also be helpful to have a second cabinet (to the left of the blade) that you could use for additional support for ripping narrower pieces off a big sheet.
Think of these as dual purpose cabinets. They could be used for tool storage, or some such, ordinarily, but then rolled into place by the TS when you need them for support.
Short of some kind of outfeed system, I would concur with the others on using a circular saw and a shooting board to break a sheet down, and then use your TS for the final cuts. For instance, in your example use this means to break the 4 X 4 at about 13 1/2" to14", so you can then take it to the TS and rip off 3 strips, each at 4 3/8".
"I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
-- Bertrand Russell
Nikkiwood,
I am in the process of building kitchen cabinets for my kids and had to cut about 12 4 X 8 sheets of plywood, various thicknesses. Since my TS is integrated into a 7' X 8' worktable, outfeed is never a problem. Infeed was though. I have enough room for 8' sheets in front of the table so I took the old Thule bars from the ski rack and set them up in front attached them with a couple of rubber bands to the fence rail and leaned them on a wood table that sits behind. Since I didn't have to hold the sheet up and could apply the right pressure to keep it against the fence.
ASK
I made all the casing in my house out of 3/4 MDF. It is 3 1/4" wide with a detail of a 3/8" bead on the inside edge. So far I have ripped down fifteen full 4x8 sheets into 3 1/4" strips and have a few more to do. I did it all with a circular saw with a carbide 40 tooth blade, a great clamp on guide, and a set of saw horses. It was much faster than even the biggest and best of cabinet saws and the results were fine. I then ran the strips through my router table and voila! For 1/10th the price I had my moulding, granted it was a good afternoons work. The clamp guide I got was a $35 item from Sears, and well worth it, you can make your own though. When doing any signifigant cutting of MDF, it's a good idea to have a shop vac attached to the dust port of the tool because of the amount of dust it creates.
MDF makes dust?????? LOL
What do you mean MDF 'makes' dust? MDF IS dust!
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
The difficulty in cutting sheet goods is one of the great ironies. "I want to make an outfeed and extension table for my tablesaw but I can't because I don't have an outfeed and extension table."In the words of Bart S., "The ironing is delicious."
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
I'm on loan over here from Breaktime, and I'm trying to be a straight laced as they say I should be with you guys here, so ya gotta give me break. Dust? Yeah ok, it makes dust. More than enough.
I'm on loan over here from Breaktime..
Rough bunch over there LOL!
Use a circular saw and straight edge to reduce the board to managable sized pieces and finish off on your table saw
Regards from Africa
Pine
Check out the table saw station built by Norm Abram. We have one of these at my "shop" and it works great.
http://www.newyankee.com/getproduct3.cgi?9908
I buy into the straightedge method. About a year ago I upgraded from a small ryobi saw to a Jet exacta with a 52" fence and out feed table and its still easier to take the 4x8 sheet set it up on saw horses (or a sacrificial frame made of 2x4's) line up a straight edge, and make make cuts with a circular saw. With the right blade and careful measurement, you can get finish quality cuts. Or you can make quick rough cuts then finish the more managable cuts on your table saw.
What I do sometimes, especially with 3/4 mdf is have them cut into 2 x 8 where I buy them.
I t costs me nothing, easy to cut on my saw and they fit in my minivan.
Always another way,
cheers,
silver
Rich,
"... I set up a couple of roller-top stands ..."
I can't be certain if you meant the roller-ball or the rolling-pin type. I will assume you are referring to the rolling-pin type which may be the cause of your problem. These types of rollers tend to skew the work piece if they are not perfectly perpendicular to the direction you wish to go. Roller balls, on the other hand, do not have this inherent bias.
I have a 10 year old Sears Contractor TS on which I cut full sheets of MDF with accuracy. This is what I do. And, I do this alone as well.
I made a 4 ft wide stand on which I attached several 1" roller balls. This is held in place with my ancient Work Mate and goes about 1 1/2' - 2' in front of the TS with the roller balls centered in the stock. As mentioned above, the roller-balls have no bias, so they cannot skew the stock in any direction as rollers can.
Using the original fence which came with the saw, I nudge it until it is precisely parallel with the blade and exactly where I want it to be. To do this I take the blade to its MAXIMUM height and measure - with a metal rule, not a tape ruler - the distance between blade TIP and fence to make sure that the fence is as parallel as I can get it. If you're using an ATB blade measure at either end using the same blade tip type.
I then lower the blade so that only about 1/2" or so of the blade is protruding above the stock. Now I SLOWLY make my cut keeping my eye on the edge of the stock which is running against the fence. The goal is to keep the stock flush against the fence at all times using my left hand to do this (assuming the fence to the right of the blade) and pushing the stock through with my right.
If I am cutting a full 4' x 8' sheet of MDF lengthwise, I position my TS so that my workbench serves as a support for the stock that passes beyond the roller balls. Failing this, the weight of the stock will begin to lift the stock from the blade forcing you to work harder at holding the stock in proper alignment. You NEVER want to find yourself in this dangerous situation. Also, if cutting narrow strips from full sheets, it is best to have some support to the left of the TS. I have only 21" of TS support to the left of the blade so some support is mandatory dependent on width of cut. This is especially important at the beginning of the cut when support is needed the most because you have the full weight of the stock in your hands. And, needless to say, the thicker the stock, the more support you will need and consequently, the more precautions you should take.
Working alone only you can decide which is the safest method for the task at hand. Making supports to reduce risk is time consuming but safety can never be ignored. Never.
I keep my TS top coated with TopCote so that it's as slick as possible which helps immensely. I also have my TS mounted on a Shop Fox roller stand which makes it easy to position and locked-down where needed. Cabinet saws have never appealed to me because I do what I need without one. If I had to cut sheet material on a daily basis then that would be a different story. These techniques work for me. Good luck.
Phillip
Hi Phillip B is right on with his method for cutting large sheet material on the table saw The ball type rollers are the answer. I haye a cabinrt the same hight as my table saw with 2 rows of 1'' ball rollers about 2' apart. the ball rollers are 6'' apart in each row and the rows are staggerd so every 3'' there is a roller on the infeed side i have a bar stool about the same hight as the saw.When i start cutting I can handle the infeed side by myself. also make sure your fence is aligned with the blade as Phillip B says.
If i crosscut a full 4x8 sheet i will use a guide and a circular saw with a plywood blade for plywood and a carbide blade for mdf .
Have a nice day Lee
Lee,Thanks for your comments. I learned the hard way about those roller 'tubes' and quickly went to the roller balls. These work great. I keep kicking myself every time I cut sheet material because I should have made a fold-up extension for the left side of my TS. This would make life so much easier when cutting this material. Plain old Melanine would work just fine. I don't cut much 4x8 stuff but when you have to, you want to do it as quickly and safely as possible. No short cuts here.Your method of cross-cutting sheet material is tried and true. Sometimes I find it faster to just make the cut - as accurately as I can - with a Japanese saw while the stock is leaning against my workbench. I place a piece of plywood below the stock so my saw will not hit the floor as I finish my cut. However, if I have to make an accurate cut, I will do just as you describe.Regards,
Phillip
Circular saw & alternate fences are the answer. I use 2" x 2" aluminium found at screenroom supply places. A 10' piece is plenty ridgid and not that fragile. And 'way cheap.
I like Ed's idea for fences. Also consider buying a 2 inch thick ,4 foot by 8 foot sheet of rigid insulaton board from Home DePot. Lay your rigid insulation and MDF sheet on the floor and make any cuts you desire with fence and circular saw. The blade will penetrate into the rigid about 1/4" and you will have FULL support of the MDF when cutting. The smaller pieces can then be cut on your table saw.
The rigid insulation board is usually blue or pink in color.
And when you have hacked it up to much for continued use on one side, don't turn it over and use the other side. Cut it into panels to fit in an uninsulated garage door. I would put the sliced pieces facing the door side. Buy a new sheet and cut away. When you have hacked it up too much for good support, slice it up and do some more garage door insulation.
You save money on heating and cooling, it dampens sound if you work in your garage (in the garage and outside), and you can easily justify buying another sheet whenever you need it. It's also very light and can be stored flat hanging above the garage door from the ceiling with two pieces of twine or string.
Personally, back to the post topic, I cut my sheet goods with a circ saw, on saw horses. My 10 x 20 shop is pretty tight and I keep the saw dust in that bay or on the driveway. I just had the guy at HD cut down some peg board i bought and I'll likely use that option on future mdf purchases, (as others have mentioned). Its really heavy and not normally nominally (is that New Englandish for normally?) dimensioned, so waste isn't critical. Also, any formaldehye dust that stays at the HD and out of my garage is better for me.
I have plans to make a grid out of 1x 4s that is easy to set up and take apart. I have a big shelf project looming in my son's room, so that will be a good excuse to make one.
Regards,
Ken
"Do as you would be done by." C.S. Lewis
Put me in the "circular saw and straitedge" school. Apart from anything else, you don't get the full bouquet of the MDF unless you have your face right down in it...
Try cutting it with a somewhat dull blade and a clogged dust chute. It has kind of a burnt, nutty smell.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
Well said.
Regards,
Ken
"Do as you would be done by." C.S. Lewis
Another excellent suggestion which I shall adopt. When all I had was the circular saw it was a hassle finding enough scrap strips to hold the sheet wood off the garage floor and support it as I cut it. The solid foam is a perfect solution.Thanks,Rich
Somtimes I climb right onto the sheet goods when I can't reach across the full four feet. In those cases, the sheet has to be supported. Does the rigid foam provide enough support? Also, does it reduce tear-out?Thanks,
Mark
Measure it with a micrometer, mark it with chalk, cut it with an ax.
Hi Mark,
Yes athe rigid foam will support your weight. Your wieght is spread out over a large area. If you step on it with just your foot, it will leave a small indentation. It does not help with tear out.
I use two Workmate workbenches as supports for a homemade outfeed table and outrigger when I cut sheets of ply or MDF.
The outrigger looks like a "T" shaped beam and is built out of 3/4" MDF. I cut one piece at 4" wide x 8ft long as the sliding surface (horizontal part of T); perpendicular to this, I glued two identical pieces at 8ft long and about 6" wide together (net 3/4+3/4=1.5" thick) to make the vertical part of the "T" - Note, the exact width is set by matching the height when clamped in the workmate jaws vs. your tablesaw height. You can add laminate, but I haven't needed it.
For the outfeed, I bought a flat (plain face) 30" wide hollowcore door. My table saw is a delta contractor saw and has a "L" shaped steel angle bar across the back to hold the right side table, but you could add this to yours. I screwed a piece of aluminum "U" channel to the "L" bar (right side up) and a second piece of same "U" channel (upside down) to the underside of the door slab. Nesting the two keeps the outfeed table from moving around. The other end of the panel is clamped to the second workmate top with some quickgrip clamps.
Once built, setup time is under five minutes. Workmates store on wall hooks & Door slab and outrigger lean up against wall. when not in use.
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