Cranked chisels – I have a couple of very small Lee Valley ones but no proper-sized ones. Every now and then I think “I could use a cranked chisel here”. Then I get around the problem somehow and forget to go looking to buy a cranker or two.
Today was one of those days.
So, would anyone care to enlighten me concerning the two designs that seem to be in the market: those with a cranked handle and a flat blade; those with an S-curved blade (such as the Hirsch or Two Cherries style).
I notice that the cranked-handle / flat blade ones tend to cost near twice as much as the S-curved bladers. Also, I ‘m familiar with Two Cherries and like their steel (although not their danged varnish on everything).
My main concern with the s-curved variety would be whether the blade backs have any flat area on their backs, at the edge-end. I’m thinking that some area of flat would be useful to jig the chisel along a flat surface when paring something down in a box-bottom or trough….?
Any advice or information from cranked chisel users appreciated.
Lataxe
Replies
Are the S curved ones your talking about "lock mortice" chisels? sounds like a different kettle of fish.
Troy
Troy,
No, not the swan necks, which are for scraping out the bottom of mortises, but rather these:
View Image
The picture suggests there may be a flat area at the edge-end; but none of the sellers say explicitly that it's so.
Lataxe
Thanks for the clarification I had not seen those before. Of course now that I have I am wondering if I need them?Troy
Edited 11/20/2009 9:31 pm ET by troys
Ray,
What is your take on the CNC? (Crank Neck Chisel)I have always wanted to tell people that I have a CNC. If I get a crank neck chisel, I will be able to say that I have a CNC.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
Mel,
So far, I have not felt a pressing need for a crank necked chisel, even when mortising for locks.
But, I haven't been doing this kind of work for very long.
This will sound snarky, but is said in all seriousness: In my experience, the British seem to worry more about things like nice flat-bottomed mortises (and other unseen recesses) where a cranked chisel would be helpful, even essential, than us Murricuns.
That is, the English standards of craftsmanship could be said to be higher, at least in areas that do not "show", than ours.
Ray
Ray,
You are confused (I always knew it)!
Firstly, we British are a Purfek Nationality as any comparison with, say, folk from the USA, Monaco or France will confirm.
Secondly, the subject-matter is cranked chisels (for paring) not swan-neckers (for 'ole diggin').
However, you may be korrect concerning the "higher standards of craftsmanship" enjoyed in this fair isle. It is merely our natural supriority coming to the fore. As you know, we are best at everything since we are a mongrel and co-operative folk, feeling no need to huddle by ourselves down in some secret valley in Colorado whilst sneering at the lesser mortals. :-)
Lataxe, ruler of at lest three or four waves.
PS It's troo that I have bought three swan-neckers to match my mortise chisels but never felt the need to use the former. Doh!
Lataxe, old chum,
I'd hoped to rattle a Limey chain with that last post, glad to see it brought the ol bull mastiff L hissel' out to the end of his tether.
Confused? Me? Only in my own mind, never in my expressions of opinion!
Cranked or Swan-necked, they are all of the same ilk. I saw the pictures you posted, first thing came to my mind was, did they belong to Salvador Dali, and come with a matching set of clock-faces?
My statement was intended generically, that is over the whole spectrum of recesses that usually are not visible, except to the odd repair-man, who is expected to say when uncovering the beautiousness of the bottom of that lock-mortise, dado-channel, or sliding-bolt recess, "Holy smokes! This thing was built by a real craftsman! He even lavished his attention on this tiny detail, for me and me alone, to admire. I am not worthy to even touch the hem of his table's skirt."
As far as period workmanship is concerned, while American stuff holds its own in terms of design, and excellence of execution where the work is visible, I have to say that the Brits are head and shoulders above the rest when it comes to clean interior surfaces. Doubtless our attitude of "Git 'er done," finds, or did find, expression (for good or ill) in other activities than just woodworking. It might be argued that such care and attention is a waste of time where it does not show, or improve utility, still it is a pleasant surprise to find the bottom side of a drawer or the inside of a case's back finished to the same level of finish as its front.
As far as nat'ral superiority, the finest British craftsmanship that I've seen, by far, was a library-bookcase, accompanied by a label that said something along the lines of, "Gillow and Co, cabinetmaker to Her Majesty", no mongrel had a hand in purchasing that, I'd venture. Sadly, the commissioning of the finest work will always depend upon the beneficence of the upper crust, and not the hoi polloi, no matter whether the society is sequestered behind ancestral castle walls or in a secluded Colorado mountain hollow ;-)
Ray, conservator of a Hepplewhite tall-clock this week, and maker of an apple-butter paddle last week
HAY WATCH OUT!
I just LOVE Salvador Dali paintings. I cannot afford them but my oldest grand daughter paints replicas for me. I for one thing that melting clock thing Salvador Dali painted while watching a woodworker doing a long glue-up!
Hah! Will,
I've had a glue up clock melt-down myself, on more than one occasion.
Ray
Sombody understands!
Ray,
Well. I confess to taking, of late, the American attitood concerning the finishing of internal parts. Just this afternoon I have been final-planing and oiling-up parts for a walnut hall table, leaving the internals merely flattish (not smooth) and plane-tracked then slopped with the oil. The externals are as smooth as the seat of a well-used Indian motorbike and as shiney as its well-polished tank.
I knew I shouldn't have hung around here all this time. I now have bad habits. Cuh!
As to Gillow, he took up with Waring of Lancaster many moons ago and they were long a high clarss maker of furniture, just 5 miles north of Galgate in the centre of Lancaster. In fact, my neighbour Mr Forester worked for them 40-odd year as a french polisher, with a 5 year break in the middle during WWII. He spent some tedious times in the factory but also many happy times travelling around the world to finish or repair their items in situ, within large manses and on ocean liners amongst other venues.
Mr F did teach the ladywife and I to polish in the French mode but I rarely use this as a finish, it being rather delicate for today's rough-living folk with their scratchy-metal implements and soggy-bottomed grog-pots.
The W&G business slowed and stopped some decades ago but the University of Lancaster (my Alma Mater) bought the factory and used it as temporary grove of academe until their new building was begun just over the road from where I now live. The lower part of the W&G factory building is now a large furniture shop selling (the ignomy) mass-produced pine and oak stuff of the crudest scandi-modern kind.
http://www.lancs.ac.uk/unihistory/growth/waringandgillowlink.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waring_&_Gillow
Its a small world.
Lataxe
Lataxe,
You will be truly free when you can allow yourself the leaving of the odd axe-mark, pitsaw scarf, and/ or fore-plane gully on those furniture innards. Or better yet, superfluously adding them after the fact to your machine-surfaced stock, for that je ne sais quoi of authenticity (or ought that be the sine qua non?). Mind you, if confronted, I'll deny ever having done that myself, ahem, but I've-- I've...read, yes(!) , read about it being done;-)
Hope you and yours are continuing to stay high and dry.
Ray
First I had was a Hirsch S-type and it was awkward to register flat. I sold it with a bunch of other tools with similar issues to how I work.
I picked up a true cranked neck vintage Buck that works just as it is supposed to, as far as registering flat for paring work. Also the steel hones very nicely and keeps its edge well.
David,
I have seen the Crown crank neck chisels at Woodcraft. The crank in this is back near the handle and then there is a long straight section. You can see them at:
http://www.hartvilletool.com/product/12066
I have never used them and have no experience with Crown.
Japan Woodworker has some interesting Japanese crank necks at
http://www.japanwoodworker.com/dept.asp?dept_id=12779&s=JapanWoodworker
I haven't used crank neck chisels either. I use my router planes. What are some applications for Crank Necks that a router plane won't solve?
I went to Google, and did a search on "crank neck chisels", and got 1,300,000 hits. There is some information out there for you to review.
Have fun,
Mel
Measure your output in smiles per board foot.
FWIW, I bought a set of cranks from Japan Woodworker about 30 years ago. I love 'em, even though they aren't from one of the "known" makers.
Been experimenting with all kinds of stringing and about a month ago thought that maybe a crank handled chisel may make my surface trimming easier. Picked up a 3/4" and have found it to be an excellent decision.
You are able to get your ring finger up against the cranked handle. The control gained in execution made my purchase worth it.
My video blog......... recent episode on Silas Kopf and Wdworking in America
http://furnitology.blogspot.com/index.html]
Edited 11/23/2009 10:33 am ET by a Furnitologist
Thanks all for ther input. The general consensus seems to be that a proper cranked handle on a chisel with a flat back will be a better user than a snakey rascal from Germany.
Now I just have to decide on a brand and size.
Lataxe
I thought the consensus was that you don't need one of these tools and you should be just fine with a router plane and a modicum of skill...:)
Pedro,
Skill? What is that?
I did use my special test rig (imagination) to see how a router plane would clean out the corners of a drawer or even those of a small box carcass. The experiment failed to discover the method but perhaps you have a topological secret concerning these tools? If so, publish it now but forget all thoughts of reward other than the glow of an altruistic act.
Also, you seem to have forgotten Rule 38f of The Woodworkers Kreed - all tool collections must be complete with every tool there is, as who knows when one of them will be needed. I calculate that I have only 1739 tools left to purchase (not counting spare cutters and such). The only reasons for the delay are that I cannot arrive at the correct buying sequence and I lack the dosh.
Lataxe, wondering if there is a market for cranked plane blades.
Lataxe,
Indeed, I never make a drawer deeper than a half inch for just that reason. Problem solved!Actually, I have used chisels bevel down when trying to get into tight quarters like the ones you mentioned. It doesn't work great, but it's good enough. It'd be interesting to see a poll on how many folks have or use one of these cranked chisels. How about a chisel plane?
---Pedro
Well,
I used an unjustifiable award of some dosh from Nanny (to keep out the cold from ole pensioner bodies like moi) as cranked-chisel buying capital. Pushing them through wood, in the shed, will keep me warm after all. I bought three Crown crankers (1/4", 1/2" & 3/4") as these were what the only local tool shop left had in stock; and they seemed little different from others made by the various Sheffield men.
View Image
You may or may not be interested to know that the quality of the steel and the design of the blades/handles is up to a decent standard - unlike the forging of the blades, with all three being bananas "out of the box". The blade-backs of all three had concavity varying from 1/16" - 1/32" of an inch. Nor were the chisels sharp, having only a rough-ground bevel.
So, I had to carefully flatten the backs (with a giant belt sander then diamond "stones" - a risky procedure with that belter) then sharpen/hone them all; just over an hour's work. Not too much effort, you say. But what if I'd had no big belt sander nor the experience to use it without bluing the steel, dubbing the cutting end and so forth? And what a good job the blades have sufficient thickness to allow the safe removal of so much metal.
Happily the steel does take a very good edge; and a half-hour "abuse-test" on various offcuts of hardwood proves the steel to also have good edge-retension. However, Mr Crown should, I think, be ashamed of his lackadaisical attitude to out-of-the-door quality control. Why couldn't he have his lads do this back-flattening and edge-making, especially as the chisels average 25 quid (about $40) a piece?
Still, they have already been busy perfecting the drawer runners and other internals of a small walnut hall table I'm on with at the moment.
Lataxe
Edited 12/7/2009 7:12 am ET by Lataxe
David,
Those Crown crank necks that you bought are exactly the ones that I recommended to you earlier in this thread. Glad I was able to help you find what you thought you needed, regardless of what Ray has to say.
MelMeasure your output in smiles per board foot.
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