I just finished up several small mission mantel clocks in oak for a customer. She would like them asap. I’ve put on one coat of an oil stain. What can the final finish be that will allow me to deliver them as soon as possible?
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shellac
I don't really like the look of shellac, especially on mission furniture.
Wipe on satin varnish--probably 4 coats to get a nice looking finish, but they will dry very quickly.Gretchen
What "look" does shellac have? What look does it have "especially on Mission furniture?"Shellac or lacquer can have your job out the door, completely dry, no further attention needed, in 24 hours if you really want to hurry the process.Lacquer was developed to replace shellac in high speed, high-volume furniture production, only because a water-proof and alcohol-resistant product was needed. Otherwise, shellac was the mainstay of the industry.Any commercial "Mission" furniture available today is finished with lacquer. Low-volume custom work may use oil, oil-varnish or varnish finishes.The only "look" a finish has is the thickness of the applied film and the final method used to prepare the surface of the topmost application.Shellac and lacquer can "look" like an oiled surface, if desired. Shellac and lacquer, are indistinguishable on visual examination. So what "look" does shellac have?Rich
How about satin polyurethane?
It's not authentic mission style, but it's fast.
A year ago or so I read a comparison article. Believe it or not, Minwax wiping varnish was the highest rated.
Have you heard of the quality triangle? Three words: good, fast cheap. You can have any two out of the three, but never all three. Too bad so many customers, (and Americans), can't understand this.
Best of luck,
F
what about just using wax?
Actually, all original Mission Style furniture was finished with shellac. The original schedule called for ammonia fuming followed by shellac.
So I don't really understand the "I hate shellac on Mission style" comment. If you want authentic Mission Style the only acceptable finish is shellac.
Some woodworkers "hate" shellac because it's application is a learned technique. Varnish, especially today's "wiping varnish" can pretty much be slathered on and forgotten.
When I first started woodworking I hated finishing. And I hated sanding. And I hated wany boards, and I hated...
Then I discovered that woodworking requires the mastering of many different skills in order to produce quality. Now I'm proud of my abilities because I spent the time and effort to master that which had stymied me.
It sounds like this project is going to have to be delivered ASAP. So, perhaps there is no opportunity to expand the skill set. But woodworking ain't rocket science. Stretch your skills everyday. You might just be surprised.
Not all. Stickley also used lacquer, specifically a "banana" lacquer, so named because of its smell.
I enjoy the visual warmth of boiled linseed oil with a topcoat of shellac. With oak I might lean towards Blonde shellac (1 lb cut), darker woods, perhaps Orange shellac. Beware heavier cuts dry very quickly. As a Mission mantle clock will be handled very little, using a quality wax is probably all that you require to complete the look.
Due to the foibles of shellac other projects,such as a table top, should have a protective coat over the shellac. If speed is of the essence, you might consider Behlen's Master Gel Clear Finish (quick re-coat time). If you have all the time in the world, use a marine varnish such as Epifanes. As with any new technique, try a few samples before committing. Remember, you should be having fun with the project(s), right.
If that oil stain hasn't thoroughly dried (about a week to be absolutely certain), I wouldn't risk a top coat of film finish, be it shellac or laquer. There's at least a possibility that out-gassing from the oil stain will bubble, craze, or interfere with the drying of a film coat. An oil/varnish blend like Watco "Danish Oil" might be the best bet in this case, though you will have to be careful not move around the stain if its applied thickly and has not yet sufficiently dried.
Since this is a clock that will not see heavy abrasion, little to nothing is needed in the way of "protection" (unlike a table surface). Should you so choose, I'd think an application of paste wax would be fine.
Go with Deft in a semi-gloss. A brush will work fine, but if you have overlays or turnings, use the spray can.
The first coat usually dries in 30 minutes. sand with 220 wipe off dust, recoat. Let dry 1/2 a day, repeat sanding and wiping, recoat. Third coat needs over night to dry hard. buff with 4-ought steel wool the next day when dry (Press finish to be sure you don't leave a finger print; meaning that it's not fully dry.) Wipe away dust... Use a spray dusting wax and you are ready for delivery....;>)
Bill
Edited 9/2/2008 9:06 pm ET by BilljustBill
That's the best advice I've heard, thanks.
I came close to those exact steps prior to delivery the other day.
Thanks for the follow up. Here's an idea that might help in the future...when you're not working against the clock...;>)
When I built my grandfather clocks from Walnut, I used Varathane's oil finish. It really gets into the wood, but oil finishes don't provide much protection. After I had applied 2 coats of the oil and let dry for about 2 weeks, I went back over with the 3-coat Deft process.
The oil naturally darkens the wood and brings out any and all the fancy grain patterns in the wood. Sealing that oil finish with Deft added so much to the natural look and offered more protection. That was more than 30 years ago.
Well,I respectfully have to say that Bill's advice is NOT the best advice you've gotten.I do agree with his advice to use a lacquer (Deft) finish. I said to use lacquer in my first response.Do not use a brushing lacquer, unless you have had plenty of experience with it. Brushing lacquer is by no means easy to use and the implication that it is the answer for anyone who does not have spray equipment or who is not good with spray equipment is very misleading.Use lacquer in spray cans, they will serve you much better. Deft is nitrocellulose. You can use Krylon, or any of the no-name brands. Spray cans of lacquer are all just about the same.Don't use semi-gloss. Use gloss lacquer. Semi gloss has flattening (flatting) agents. You're going to be using sand paper and steel wool on the dry lacquer film to achieve a semi-gloss -matte finish. Semi-gloss lacquer will result in a dull final appearance, gloss lacquer will result in a glowing, soft matte surface.Test the stained surface before you apply the lacquer. You don't know if it is dry yet, or if the stain will re-dissolve in lacquer solvent. Test with lacquer thinner and with alcohol. If the stain comes off on your cloth, it will lift into the finish. If it doesn't come off on the cloth, you're good to go. If it lifts with lacquer thinner, but not with alcohol, use spray shellac for the job. All other instructions are the same.Apply 3 light coats the first day about an hour in-between. There is no need to scuff sand either lacquer or shellac as each coat will re-dissolve the under layer. If you use shellac, you may need to level sand the first coat due to grain raising. That won't happen with lacquer.The next day, level sand the surface with 320 grit VERY gently. Don't use 220, it's too coarse for the finish. Take down any dust nibs and try to achieve an over-all smooth surface, but don't try too hard. There's not enough film on the wood and you'll cut right through it if you try to create an over-all abraded surface as would be appropriate for a full finishing schedule of 2 more days of 3 applications each.Bring the finish to its final appearance with 4-0 steel wool.Don't use wax on the finish. There is absolutely no need to wax a lacquer finish. And certainly don't use a spray dusting wax as that will contain silicone. You're putting a very thin, very quick finish on these pieces. If the customer calls you back because she's dissatisfied with the finish (all h*ll usually breaks loose on jobs that must be delivered ASAP as you want to do) you'll curse yourself if you've applied wax, especially wax with silicone which will reject further lacquer application (fish eye).That's about it.Good luck.Rich
Edited 9/3/2008 6:47 am ET by Rich14
Rich,
To each his own, but I'd take issue with part of your opinion...
I taught middle school kids for 9 years, so if it can be messed-up or go wrong, the attention span and peer pressure of that age only adds to finishing woes... ;>)
Deft is one of the few surface finishes ANYBODY can use with great results. Like the can says, the only way you can make a mistake with it is not to load your brush enough. Unlike lacquer, Deft doesn't blush a 1/10th as much and trap moisture turning your project into streaks of white.
I built my first piece of furniture in 1969. It was a Cherry china cabinet with glass upper doors and panel doors and drawers for the lower storage section. I used your recommendation of straight lacquer, and sprayed many coats on the inside and outside while rubbing it out between coats. It was built for my folks who live in West Texas where humidity is low and the winters are cold. In a house heated with natural gas, the deep beautiful lacquer cracked like a hot marble dropped in cold water. Lacquer is a hard finish and great for hard surfaces like violins, but not forgiving to temp and humidity changes...
With Deft, it's never been a problem with cracking or anything else. Here's another project I built with the same formula of clear oil finish, well dried, and sanded smooth then layered with 4 coats Deft. That was 25 years ago as you can tell by the wear on the inlayed leather writing surface. Using gloss finishes gives a fake brassy look, like the imported junk furniture from Taiwan or China. If you rub the final coat with 4-ought steel wool and miss some places in or around carvings or detail edges, those will stick out like a sore thumb because it's hard to reach down in them. Using semi-gloss and the same steel wool fineness, the shine is taken down, the surface is smooth, and using a good paste wax or light touch of any carnuba based spray wax will bring back the a deep and full luster that's very eye appealing. If you've never tried Deft, try it on your next indoor project.
I'd say time tells me that Deft will serve one very, very well.
Bill
Edited 9/3/2008 10:59 am ET by BilljustBill
Edited 9/3/2008 11:12 am ET by BilljustBill
Edited 9/3/2008 6:18 pm ET by BilljustBill
Bill,Sorry to hear about your single experience with spray lacquer on your first piece of furniture. I have no idea how thick you applied that lacquer film or just why it failed. Wood moves and lacquer cracks. That's why guitar manufacturers refuse to ship instruments in the coldest months.But your experience in no way invalidates the use of spray lacquer as a furniture finish. Don't look now, but the industry uses run of the mill nitrocellulose for the lion's share of its finishing operations and lacquer of all types for 99.9+% of all finishing.Deft Clear Wood Finish, while not quite a garden-variety lacquer is not far from it. Brushing lacquer has more evaporation retarding agents than spray lacquer to give you a chance of putting down a film before the stuff glues your brush to the wood. Lacquer mixtures have solvents, vehicles, plasticizers, resin, flow agents and who knows what else. But they all are made to allow the resin to dry to a thin film. Lacquer should not be applied in a thick layer as is common with varnish. Varnish is much more flexible.Maybe brushing Deft has more plasticizers than the spray lacquer you used and has served you better for that reason. I don't know.I've put down a lot of spray lacquer, going back quite a bit before 1969. Unadulterated lacquer is "clear gloss." that's all I use. Lacquers labeled "semi-gloss," "satin," "matte," have dulling agents in them. I don't use such lacquer. None of my furniture has "a fake brassy look, like the imported junk furniture from Taiwan or China," whatever the heck that means.I've never had a finish crack "like a hot marble dropped in cold water." Although that WOULD be interesting to experience. And I've moved from PA to California to Hawaii, to Northern Arizona and now Florida.I really can't tell much about the finish on the pieces you have shown. It could be varnish, lacquer, whatever. The size of the images and the lighting don't allow much in the way of critical examination. If you like them, fine. They're not my cup of java. "I'd say time tells me that Deft will serve one very, very well." Sure. It's lacquer.Rich
"Using gloss finishes gives a fake brassy look, like the imported junk furniture from Taiwan or China."
Yeah, and that's incredibly unfortunate. Semi-gloss and satin finishes are just not appropriate on high-style furniture, but the antiques trade with it's "it's better if it's grimy" mantra and the elcheapo crap from east asia has unfortunately "educated" the public to think that a shiny finish is somehow ugly. It's much the same way with veneer - it's turned into a bad word, but some of the most beautiful furniture ever created was made with that technique in the early 19th century.
I do understand how "John Q. Public" thinks, and you've hit the bullseye in how you describe it!!
I guess it's because of growing up in the years in and after the 1940's and 1950's where shiny and flashy was modern thinking and the woodworking glues' for mass production caused veneers to come loose and split.
To see some of the old works, with their smooth and shiny finishes and inlay work that looks like etchings and oil paintings from the Masters under glass, it is ashamed to see how Antique shops and TV programing like "The Antique Road Show" sway public opinion more than it educates.... Unless it's a high end jewelry box or melodious long playing music box, furniture with smooth and semi-gloss or shabby sheik and rough fit today's decor.
Bill
The old works weren't finished with poly--a layer of shiny plastic sitting on top of the wood.Gretchen
You're right....a deep and smooth lacquer is much like diamonds; poly is a coating much like the skin of a military tank....
Best describing those in the cheap, quick, and fast furniture industry world wide, I like that word used by those who appreciate the finest of lacquer finishes... "Polyoneverything"
Bill
I wonder how much of this "education" of public perception has a deliberate component to it. Making a beautiful high-gloss finish is, in my opinion, something that requires a good bit of hand work. French polishing is an extreme example, but even a high-gloss laquer finish requires some hand-sanding to remove any orange peel, dust nibs, or bubbles, and that sort of thing is just not suitable for a high-speed furniture factory. I suppose expensive musical instruments are the exception - as I understand it (and my understanding is admittedly weak), most of the finishes on the $1000 and up guitars are hand leveled and built up with many coats of laquer, even by the production operations at Gibson and Fender.
Rich14
What a great and thoughtful response. I learned a "ton" about finishing and hope to use your approach in the very near future.Fine finishing is really about science, craftsmanship,art and experience. Thanks for sharing
rmantell
lacquer or shellac. Spray a couple of light coats (you can buy the lacquer spray cans), light sand, and wax. You will have a bit of protection, (don't need much) and a nice soft gloss. pmm
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