Replies

1. 
   Napie | Jun 23, 2003 05:54pm | #1

   Based on what Roger Holmes wrote very early in FWW, I suggest No. 7 jointer, it really will do it all. I followed that advice and it has served well.   I have used mine to shoot edges, fit drawers and doors, anything a plane can be called on to do.  Add a good block plane, (which you have), and you are ready to go.

1. 
   stubert | Jun 23, 2003 06:05pm | #2

   Thanks Napie. Do you recall an article title or issue number for the Roger Holmes artcile your referring to?Stuhttp://www.stubert.funtigo.com

1. 
   ToolDoc | Jun 26, 2003 07:32pm | #9

   Stubert: I checked out your web site.. Nice Shop..

                               ToolDoc

2. 
   KyleZ | Jun 23, 2003 06:28pm | #3

   Stubert,

     I have not used the Veritas 4.5, but most anecedotal evidence that I have read suggests that this plane performs in the same league as the Lie Nielsen.  It is significantly less expensive, so it is a great value.  Aesthetically, I think the L-N 4.5 is much nicer, and that is not insignificant especially if money is not a factor.

   I have the L-N 62 Low Angle Jack Plane, which is essentially the same plane that you are asking about, albeit a bit longer.  I love mine, and I use it all the time.  They are great for a new plane user because, mechanically, they are very simple.  The blade is bevel up, there is no cap iron, or lateral adjuster.  Essentially, they are a big block plane.  They plane very well.  They are good on end grain, around knots and bird's eyes, and on tame long grain.  Because of the low angle, it can cause significant tear out on some long grain situations. 

   Since you expressed a certain lack of confidence due to inexperience, I would recommend the Low Angle Smoother as a first bench plane.  Eventually, you will want a high angle plane for smoothing difficult grain.  (Once you get the hang of planing, you will suddenly want many different planes.) For a dedicated smoother I would recommend the L-N 4.5 with the optional high angle frog.  If budget comes into play, you would be fine with the Veritas.

   I like wooden planes, so I would be remiss to not mention them.  The ECE Primus smoother is an excellent plane.  The depth adjustment has minimal backlash, which is nice if you are used to old Bailey's.  It takes a while to get used to some of their idiosyncrasies, so I would not recommend it for a new user.  I have couple Steve Knight planes which I like a lot.  http://www.Knight-Toolworks.com They have a nice thick blade which is easy to sharpen.  They are a wedge set plane, so they are adjusted by tapping with a hammer.  I don't think that is difficult, but some people are afraid to try it.  A Knight plane would be a very good choice for one of your subsequent plane purchases.  Larry Williams of Clark and Williams http://www.planemaker.com often contributes here, and he is very knowlegeable.  They make very traditional wooden planes of very high quality.  Like Knight planes they have a single blade (no chipbreaker) held in place with a wedge.  Their price point for a smoother is similar to a Lie Nielsen.  They are very high on my wish list.

   The idea of a corrugated sole is that there is less metal touching the wood so there is less friction when planing.  Many people like to wax the soles of their planes so the corrugation is not really significant.

   Cheers,

   Kyle

1. 
   desertrat | Jun 23, 2003 09:25pm | #4

   I just recently purchased a little chinese made smoother from Woodcraft ($45) and I love it.  Works like a dream, sharpens up well, and takes a whisper thin shaving.

   This was my first eastern type plane (read hammer adustable).  Took me a few trys to get used to it, but now is almost second nature.

   I also have an ECE Jointer (22") and use it a lot.  Easy to adust and sharpens up well.

   Also purchased a Stanley #93 and spent the better part of two days tuning it up.  Lousy machine work.  Now, it works great, but.... You can have to oats before it goes through the horse or afterwards.

   You get what you pay for.

3. 
   ian | Jun 25, 2003 01:10am | #5

   Stu

   If you haven't already done so have a look at Garrett Hack's The Handplane Book [Taunton].  On page 250 Garrett lists the planes he considers most useful. 
   Others on this forum have done the same.
   One consensus seems to be that a jack (#5) or foreplane (#6) is very useful as it can be used for most tasks, even smoothing. 

   my suggestion would be to practice planing with your block plane on both long and end grain.  It's small and easy to control and can be used one-handed.  You should readily get a feel as to how a plane cuts, the differences between agressive and very light cuts, the advantages of skewing the cut, how square you are keeping the edge, and so on.  Once you're comfortable with using the block progress to a jack and using both hands on the plane.  I'd put off purchasing a #4 1/2 untill you are comfortable and feel confident using a narower plane.

   Ian

1. 
   Biscardi | Jun 25, 2003 07:41am | #6

   I was carping the other day to an 87 year old former woodworker ( he worked for  company called Biggs that made  reproductions for Williamsburg) about my cheap $20  Stanley #4 plane . I'd tuned it up fairly carefully, or so I thought, but was still dissatisfied.

   He looked it over and sniffed. He pulled the blade out and flattened the back of the blade. He put it back together and it worked %100 better.

   He said to me, "There is no such thing as a lousy plane. You just have to learn how to fix them up."

   So my advice to you is to buy some old Stanley -Baileys, get Hack's book and have someone look over your shoulder. There is no reason to spend $300 on a plane.

   frank

1. 
   fdampier5 | Jun 26, 2003 04:17am | #7

   You just disproved your own point.

          87 year old with a mistik way of identifying the problem and the skills needed to correct the problem..

     while you, with all of your experiance couldn't correct it..

         Why shouldn't a plane work well right out of the box?  

         Frankly if it takes a $300 dollar plane to work properly and that is the buy in price to the joy of woodworking then I'll gladly spend the money..

      (actually you can buy an inexpensive power plane and achieve much of what you seek, but that doesn't have the same image) 

1. 
   Biscardi | Jun 26, 2003 04:43am | #8

   Err ...

   You lost me.

   I think alot of folks have problems with hnd planes because there is nothing intuitive about them. If you don't have someone around to teach you ,it is easy to get frustrated with them because you don't know what your doing. Heck, for the first two years I was woodworking, I had the bevels upsidedown in my hand planes. I think that is why people get frustrated and give up and spend the big bucks for an already tuned up plane.

1. 
   fdampier5 | Jun 27, 2003 12:11am | #10

   Well, if you buy a new tool it should work correctly out of the box..  Now maybe you use the wrong technique or wrong plane whatever, but you should be able to pick up a tool and make it perform properly    ( within your own limits of course) The tool itself shouldn't be the source of poor work..

           I will admit that evan a hammer can require technique to work to it's full potential  but what if the hammer head were coated with bubblegum that needed to be removed first? 

    Those who buy used tools should expect to do tune-ups first or repair or whatever it takes to make a tool work properly.  What I can't understand is why Stanley or others would ever sell a tool that is not properly tuned and ready to use..   Further why would you tolerate buying such a tool?

2. 
   BG | Jun 27, 2003 02:59am | #11

   Biscardi,

   Almost the exact same thing happened to me while buying a Hock blade for my E-bay $12 #4....the old blade had a big chip.  John took it and spent 5 minutes at the wheel.  I haven't used the hock balde yet...it doesn't come close to the oldie after he sharpened it...the tool is an incredible joy..

1. 
   stubert | Jul 07, 2003 08:02pm | #12

   Thanks to all for the helpful advice. I apologize for taking a little while to get back to you. My PC went down, and needs replacing. So I only have limited internet access for another week or so. Anyway, it gave me time to read Garrett's book and the Planecraft book. For my initial plane I went with a LN Low angle smoothing plane. I went with the "works great right out of the box" options for a couple of reasons.

   1. I don't have any mentors that could look over my shoulder, and slap me when I do something wrong--I'm reading and teaching myself here.

   2. Figured I'd be better off learning one thing at a time (i.e: Plane operations vs plane maintenance)

   Anyway. I'm doing better at reading grain then I thought I would. Course I've adjusted the plane for the smallest cut possible, and I'm sure that helps. But my primary interest in planes is to remove mill marks. Been practicing on scrap wood. But am getting ready to try planing a table top this week.

   Stuhttp://www.stubert.funtigo.com