Replies

1. 
   BG | Sep 16, 2003 03:41pm | #1

   Doc D

   In your design, how much is ply and how much is solid wood?  I priced out cherry for a corner cupboard and it was about $500 for the wood...darn expensive.  I'm thinking birch is a good substitute but not that cheap either..except maybe in the plywood..hense the initial question.  You might be able to det away with soft maple...but there again, not that much cheaper.  I'll be curious to what the experts have to say to your question. 

2. 
   PlaneWood | Sep 16, 2003 05:59pm | #2

   I've found that Old Masters Penetrating Cherry stain matches old cherry quite well.  Minimal problems with the blotchies too.  It's a non sealing oil based stain so multiple coats can be used if desired.  I usually brush it on then use a wide dry brush to feather it till the surface is dry to the touch.  I never wipe it down with a rag until after it has set for 24 hrs.

   Oh yeah, it looks quite good on Popular, too.

   PlaneWood by Mike_in_Katy (maker of fine sawdust!)
   PlaneWood

   
   

   ---

   Edited 9/16/2003 11:00:49 AM ET by PlaneWood

3. 
   Robin33 | Sep 16, 2003 06:12pm | #3

   It is rather difficult to match finishes by simply applying a ground-pigment based stain such as Minwax sells.  Aniline dye will work better, though you may have to experiment with mixing colors.  By far your best bet, if you have access to spray finishing, is to build up a match with tinted lacquer over a a light wood like maple or birch.  The lacquer can be tinted with any oil base stain, reduced with lacquer thinner and strained.  I imagine FW has run an article or two on the process, but it can be tricky to do well, so plan on practicing on a lot of scraps.  Hope that helps. 

   Robin

4. 
   Kevin | Sep 16, 2003 08:16pm | #4

   If you're wanting to stain a substitute wood, I would suggest Alder. It is used widely in furniture factories as a Cherry Substitute. I've stained tons of it to look like Cherry.

   Regards,

   Kevin

1. 
   DocsUnlimit | Sep 17, 2003 07:15am | #6

   To all,

   I plan on using solid wood, seems more traditional or something to me.  Popular is easily accessable and had thought about that.  Also looking at the aspin wood,  thinking it just looks to me that it would take stain well? What do you think.

   I'll also have to find some Adler, I am not familuar with it so I don't know how it looks. The fine wood store is closed when I have the time to go and check it out.

   Good Idea on the stain.   I know that using a good stain is vital, sounds like Old Masters Penetrating Cherry may be the way to go. Big question is where do I find it? One thing I have not thought about, but in the past I have used some stain with sealer - could not apply a second coat with any success.  I'll remember the tips.  

   As far as adding tint to the lacquer I have seen that work well, me being only half lazy, just want the quick fix.  I'll keep the maple and birch in mind as well.

   Thanks for the kind support,  I have so much to learn. 

   Great WW and Peace to all!

1. 
   Kevin | Sep 17, 2003 08:28pm | #7

   Good luck on the project and I hope you'll post an update about what you chose and how it worked out for you.

   The primary reason that Alder is used so widely to mimick Cherry is because it's grain pattern is very much like that of Cherry. As an added benefit, Alder takes stain very readily. Much more so than Maple or Birch, and it's grain looks much more like Cherry than either Maple or Birch too. The one downside of Alder, IMO, is that it is quite a bit softer than Birch or Maple and is somewhat softer than Cherry. Of course that is precisely why it takes stain so well. But, it also dents much easier for the same reason.

   You might also check into using a dye stain rather than a pigmented stain if you're wanting to mimick aged cherry. Not having pigmented color, which can obscure the surface of the wood, dyes leave a very clean look that I should think would more closely resemble actual aged Cherry. If you go with the Birch or Maple, pigmented stain or a blend of the two might be the way to go since that will help hide the difference in species.

   Regards,

   Kevin

2. 
   trusche2 | Sep 17, 2003 09:15pm | #8

   Kevin,

     If you don't mind my asking, what stain do you use to achieve this effect?  Have you had any luck with a water-based stain?

   Thanks in advance.

   trusche2

1. 
   Sancho | Sep 17, 2003 09:27pm | #9

   Like Kevin said Alder is known as a poormans cherry. It has a simular grain pattern and color and stains about the same. 

   Darkworksite4: Subterráneo en la república de gente de Calif

2. 
   Kevin | Sep 18, 2003 01:38am | #10

   Gosh... it's been a very long time since I've worked with any Alder. That's about all I worked with for the first several years that I was finishing. But, I've been out of furniture for quite a while. As I recall... the brand of stain we used at the furniture factory was Reliance. I dunno if they are still in business or not.

   Personally, I don't put too much stock into any given brand of stain. The right color is more what I'm interested in. I think there are a number of brands out there that would give a comparable color. After all, "Cherry" has been a popular color of wood stain for many years. Actually, widening the search to include "Mahogany" stains is a good idea too since they tend to be very close to the "Cherry" stains with the added benefit of being marketed as both "brown" and regular (more red/purple) versions.

   What I do a lot of is to find an off-the-shelf wiping stain that is as close to the color that I want/need and then work out the correct color using dye stain. If, for example, you find a Cherry wiping stain that is close to what you want but is too purple. You can use a light (i.e., weak) yellow dye stain to precolor the wood. Yellow being the color that neutralizes most purples, it will get you closer to what you actually want. Or... if you just want a little less purple, you can use orange dye stain and that will bump the final color closer to red. Investing in a color wheel and working out your color on scrap wood is the way to go IMHO.

   The other thing that I do a lot of is to simply intermix two off-the-shelf stains to get the color that I want. As long as I stay within the same manufactorer and the same line of stain, there is no problem. Last year I did a bunch of museum grade interpretive display fixturing that the client (the Mormon Church) wanted a rich reddish Cherry color. The substrait was solid and veneer Cherry. I ended up intermixing M.L. Campbell's "red mahogany" and "cherry" WoodSong II wiping stains. Combined with their WSII "cherry" dye stain which I custom tinted a wee bit with Sherwin Williams dye concentrates and I nailed the color sample that had been supplied by the client. Except for the added dye colors, the whole thing was done with off-the-shelf stains that I manipulated to get the color that I needed. If you're ever in Salt Lake City, check out the South Visitor's Center. You'll see the stuff I'm talking about.

   I've only recently started to play with water-based wiping stains. They have their place. But, I don't particularly care for them. They're great for ebonizing stain because the water opens the pores up and leaves a darker color. But, even with pre-raising the wood grain... I'm not terribly impressed with water-based wiping stains. In general I don't find them worth the trouble of having to deal with the water. I like water-based dye stains more. But, even there I prefer to go with solvent-based dye in the majority of situations.

   Regards,

   Kevin

5. 
   garth | Sep 17, 2003 07:01am | #5

   I agree with Kevin Alder is a good choice as it has a grain that is not unlike cherry and can be stained to have the color of aged cherry.

   Scott T.

6. 
   robkelly1 | Sep 18, 2003 01:40am | #11

   I just finished a corner cabinet in #2 common alder (lots of knots, not very tight ones) and stained it with Minwax  Stain & Sealer, Cherry 235, 2 coats, followed by 2 coats of Minwax High Gloss PU. It sits next to a cherry table and wall cabinet finished 10 years ago with Watco natural and carnuba wax, and they look like all 3 were bought as a set.

   Why alder? Because I had to build a honduras mahogany corner cabinet out of $7.50/bf mahogany, didn't have a set of plans, and building a trial piece from $1.00/bf rough alder helped me avoid some high dollar mistakes.