I’m still months away from closing in my timber frame but I’m already starting to worry about the finish..
First you need to get the size of the project into perspective. 30,000 bd.ft will go into my timber frame. mostly white oak and black walnut but there is 916 bd.ft. of burl that will need special attention plus several thousand bd.ft. of white hard maple and about 500 feet of cherry.
Please don’t offer me any $20 a pint stuff, or suggest something that needs 40 hours of hand rubbing per foot.
The way my budget is going, I can about afford 30 gallons of swamp water , two eye of knewt and a quart of used motor oil…..
But perhaps you have some more experiance with something that’s a little better and not as smelly?
With that burl I know I’ll need to do a little “repair” which I’d planned on using sawdust and shelac. (not really in favor of using wood putty) and there will probably be a few other spots that need attention……
My skill level on finishes is nil. I come from the glop it on and smear it around untill you’re bored school of painting. It’s best to wear clothes that you need to throw away when I paint because I always allow 30% for spillage , (including on myself)
I am almost acceptable with a spray gun but the timbers at the top will be 28 feet above the floor and it’s pretty hard to hold a wet edge when you’re balanced on a ladder that high (not to mention climbing down and moving the beast)
It’s gotta be a clear finish since I really spent a lot of effort getting all of the interesting bits in the right spot.
Whatever you come up with would you break it into cost per gallon and how many feet the gallon should cost? Guessstimates are close enough.
Replies
I have no suggestions for the finish, but would love to see a few pix.
Edited 8/8/2002 8:28:48 PM ET by s4s
pics ain't possible.
I'm photographiclly iliterite. I break/ lose/ destroy more cameras than I can afford. As for figuring out the mysteries of posting pictures, well I once bought a high buck scanner, after following all the instructions, calling on the dealer and wearing out the phone asking the mfg. questions. I gave up and traded it for nothing......
Frenchy, I'm glad you're back and thinking about finishing - I'm not scared to make a suggestion - you want an oil - raw linseed is availible in 55 gal drums for around $300 - I'm guessing you'll need 2-3 drums - - you can spray it (HVLP), brush it, roll in it and paint like F Fawcett - no rubbing necessary - renewable as necessary, blends so that it's reasonable to redo just parts - - it is possible to apply too much (via multible coats), in which case you will provide a substrate for growing a black organism (mold?) - (saw it happen to a friend whose philosophy is 'more is better') - tung oil is availible also, but it's so thick you would about have to thin it in some manner to uses it - use it inside on the floor -
on a related note- quote DOUD - "there is no brown in nature" - look around at wood in nature - all shades of gray - hoping to keep weather exposed walnut brown is possible (maybe?) only at great repeated effort - even if you spend your fishin time massaging your frame, your kids won't - I suggest it's better to accept the inevitable and let the outside age gracefully, rather than trying to forstall oxidation - keep it brown inside, don't try too hard outside -
I agree with you that an oil is definitely the way to go but I'm not so sure that it ought to be raw linseed as it takes a very long time to dry and will leave a sticky surface.Even the penetrative oil I use for floors requires a certain amount of buffing to remove the excess.I'd be looking more at the type of oil used for cedar cladding
Edited 8/9/2002 8:18:16 AM ET by IanDG
Ian, I'd agree with you if you'd said 'boiled linseed oil' - I will agree on 'long time to dry' as raw basically doesn't dry - my experience is a coat of raw slopped generously on unfinished wood will soak in, the surface becoming somewhat less oily each day until it's adsorbed within the surface layer of the wood, leaving no visible film - in warm weather, no more than a day or two for the free oil to adsorb
I would be interested to know more about the oil you mention for the cedar -
I developed a penetrative oil (after much testing) for finishing hardwood floors that I laid over heated slabs. The final mixture contained tung oil, boiled linseed and pure turpentine but on the way I tried raw linseed alone and with turpentine.The raw linseed, both full and diluted, left a gummy deposit on the surface which was extremely difficult to remove, even with power buffing.The material I would use is Penetrol but I don't know if it is available here.I used it for floors over heated slabs in Australia before I developed my own treatment and it is excellent but pricey.It is thin enough to be easily spray applied.
Edited 8/9/2002 12:02:26 PM ET by IanDG
David,
great idea and I like the price....
I especially like the fact that you know Ms. Fawcett and offered to have her rub the linseed oil in for me. Thanks man...
As for leaving the black walnut timbers to gently turn a wonderful soft grey, well that will probably happen. Time will win and I don't expect to last as long as the timbers, so sooner or later Ma nature will win, she always does.........
Frenchy,
How about white latex paint?
Frank
Frenchy,
Sorry, I couldn't resist the joke.
Seriously, they recently built a huge Shakespeare theater here- all white oak. They brushed boiled linseed oil on it. It turned out very nicely. I think the flooring though aught to get urethane.
If you wanted some gloss you could use shellac in non-wear/ tear/ moisture areas.
There is a product called Armada which is a clear oilbased finish which is meant for exterior finishes like exotic wood decks. It has to be renewed every two years.
Frank
Edited 8/9/2002 9:25:57 PM ET by BISCARDI
Frank,
Do they sell shellac cheap enough to do all of the timbers in this barn? I'd like a high gloss finish but all I'm ever seen has been little packages of it or small little bottles that cost the death and cover just about enough for a grandfather clock.
If I use shellack for "repairs" and then sand them, will the linseed oil shine differant?
Frenchy,
I think very good Shellac is about $17 a pound. It would take about 3 pounds to make 1 gal of a brushable mix. You'd need a gallon of denatured alcohol. So the shellac mix comes out to about $50 a gallon. I bet you could buy cheaper stuff pre-mixed, but you need to watch out for expiration dates. I recently needed about three pints to do five or so coats on a piece made with about 20 bf of lumber; this is very good, but not cheap.
Still you might consider it if you have some really spectacular bit you want to showcase.
I really can't think of much you could use (Watco, Linseed Oil, Urethane, even Thompson's) that would be all that cheap in the quantities you will be needing. Could you buy a barrel of say linseed oil directly from a manafacturer?
Frank
Doing a little calculation it would cost about $2,750 for a 55 gallon drum of it at those prices. You said that it took five pints to do a 20 bd ft. piece. that would mean I'd need something like 1500 pints or 187.5 gallons which translates into $9375.00
Ouch!
AAAAAuuughhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!
Penetrol is available here, this is the site.
Edited 8/9/2002 7:48:58 PM ET by IanDG
Frenchy, you forgot to include the usual third part of that equation, i.e., cheap, good,----- and fast, ha, ha.
Is creosote available in the US? That's quick and good, but it is a bit smelly for a few weeks. Slainte, RJ.
Sgian,
Fast part is assumed. That's why I wind up with fully a third of it on me.. I never have made any claim as to my ability to to a good paint job, but I do fully understand fast!!
Nah! creosote has been traced to cancer in lab mice so us humans aren't allowed to have it, I guess they are afraid mice are smarter than us somehow...... well maybe, after all the mice do work in labratories. Does that make them scientific mice? I must be real dumb since I've never met a mouse with a PHD....
Being mindful that I'm absolutely the newest kid on the block, might I suggest that you consider water-based sanding sealer? Until recently I would have turned up my nose at any kind of water-based finish, but after applying a satin lacquer finish coat in a not-quite-well-enough-ventilated area (and having to stop work to watch blue the elephants march across the ceiling) I sold on W-BSS--and can't tell the difference on stained red oak between it and satin varnish except that W-BSS: (1) dries to the touch in about fifteen minutes; (2) has little or no odor; (3) unlike some oil-based finishes, it will not affect any stain you might have applied; and (4) it cleans up with soap and water. The first coat (applied with a medium-nap roller) will raise the grain, so I come back with a light sanding pass before applying the second coat. Application with a roller will leave bubbles, which are easily removed with a quick, light pass with a damp sponge or wide paintbrush. When dry, W-BSS shows no lap or brush marks. Both the local ACE Hardware and Lowe's carry the product (under their own brand name).
interesting,
Could you give me the price per 55 gallon drum and about how many thousand board feet a drum will cover? As I mentioned earlier I have about 30,000 bd.ft. of wood to cover!
According to my local ACE Hardware, their water-based sanding sealer (Item #16062) does not come in quantities larger than one gallon (shelf price: $19.95); according to the label, coverage is 400 sqft/gallon. I would expect that you could get a quantity discount, although you might have to go to their web site to get connected to the right person (and it would still come in one-gallon cans). Good luck!
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled