http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0517
I want to get a dedicated woodworking drill press (I have one in the garage for metalworking, but it’s always oily and covered with metal shavings). I also want a better system for cutting mortises besides a hand-held router and various jigs. I’m wondering whether this tool would work as a wood mill/drill press. The max rpm is 3,840 (which is unusually high for a metalworking mill). Is that high enough for typical router bits?
What got me thinking about this is that Grizzly does make a woodworking mill: http://www.grizzly.com/products/G9959 But it is too big and heavy (and $$$) for my little shop.
My main concern about the G0517, is that it is really cheap and flimsy for a mill. But then again, in woodworking you’re not looking for .001″ accuracy, so maybe it would be just fine.
What do you all think?
Replies
Yes, you could use it for wood, but you really don't have the large table, and clearance from the collum is a little small. If you are looking to do M&T type joinery with it, and small precision drilling jobs go for it.
If you really just need a drill press, do yourself a favor and buy a nice big big one and save some cash.
That said, if you want to do some machining on metal, and some basic drilling wood, you could probably adapt it to fit your needs. And you may find yourself buying a big DP later...
In looking the G0517 over some more, I noticed that the motor is 1/2 hp, 1,725 rpm. So if I upgraded to a 3,450 rpm motor (maybe 3/4 or 1 hp) then I could get the max spindle rpm up to 7,680. Still not as fast as a typical 20,000 rpm router, but maybe fast enough? The mill that Grizzly makes specifically for woodworking is only 5,000 rpm.
As far as the table, I would probably build a larger wood table with a fence and clamp system and bolt it to the X-Y cross table.
This is starting to intrique me. . . .
Here's another possibility: http://www.grizzly.com/products/G1005Z A bit larger and heavier, and by changing to a 3,450 rpm motor, the spindle speed would be 5,160 rpm.
As far as speed for mortising is concerned, I have a one HP Powermatic dedicated mortiser whose speed is 1725 RPM. It works fine for that purpose.
WATCH OUT! The bearings that support the load on the quill on a DP are designed to support a vertical load(pushing down), not a significant horizontal or lateral load(pushing from the side). For sure none of the imports or hobby low end DP's will survive the speed or pressure of router or milling type use for any length of time.
There will always be the clever article or magic tool co. bit for drill press use, but will the replace your bearings after you smoke them. There is no free lunch, try to use a tool within the parameters it was designed to operate . Best of luck, Pat
Yes, that is why I am looking at getting a mill, not a drill press.
If you want to cut mortises why limit yourself?
http://www.grizzly.com/products/G0540
Lets you do end-grain as well as edge, for floating tenons.
By the way, speed is not an issue - the end mills you use with this tool are happiest at 3450. I don't try to cut sideways with mine, just in & out. More accurate mortise and since I'm using tenons designed for drilled mortise anyway so it works great:
http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=44779&cat=1,250,43217
Tried making my own, real PITA to get them accurate (at least for me), with the rounded edges.
Thanks. I've looked at dedicated mortising machines, and you are right that they can do end-grain mortises, while a mill would not. But until I expand, my shop, I don't have room for any more machines (I'll be moving the jointer and planer out to the woodshed just to make room for another bench and a drill press/mill. What I like about the mill is that it is a more versatile drill press. And there are lots of other operations that it could be used for besides just mortising. With the mill, I would have to do traditional M&T jointery rather than floating tenon joints, but that's okay. I don't do production work, which is where doing floating tenons seems to make the most sense.
Floating tenons are just as good for one off pieces. Pretty much as strong as traditional tenons according to tests done in FWW years ago. Unless you are doing traditional furniture I highly recommend a horizontal slot mortiser over any other mortiser.
As far as milling machines go I would get a step used step pulley type Bridgeport which can be found for around $500 and put a VFD on it. VFD will convert it from three phase give you variable speed.
My options are based on real research and experience and not on theory.
Edited 3/13/2006 7:43 am ET by RickL
Thanks Rick, Trouble with a bridgeport is it's size and weight. My shop is too small for a full size knee mill and I'm not sure the floor could support the 1,200+ lbs. I appreciate that floating tenons are just as strong. I was only saying that I think their benefit over traditional M&T is that they are faster to produce, which may or may not be a priority.
I would like to consider other possibilities though. Maybe a regular drill press and a shop built horizontal mortiser that could be stowed under a bench would be a better option for me. The mill just seems like it would do everything that a drill press could do plus make very accurate mortises and do other operations as well. For instance, it could be used to rough out the pins on half-blind dovetails; cut slots, grooves, etc.; not to mention make very accurate tenons too.
Makes me wonder why a mill isn't a standard woodshop tool.
Anyway, I'm going to call the tech support at Grizzly today and talk it over with them -- find out what differentiates their big wood mill from their metalworking mills besides rpms. I'll let you all know what I learn.
Metalworking tools in woodworking shops.
Milling machines, Metal Lathes, and other precision metalworking tools are not made to be covered in sawdust. Wood dust gets on lead screws, bearings and gums up the works. To maintain the tight tolerances required for .001 of an inch machines must be tight. No extra room for the dust grime associated with wood dust. Many people have machines that coexist, and I'm sure you could too. You seem sold on the mill/drill. Buy it and let us know how it works, you could start the mill/drill as a must have for traditional M&T'ers.As I thought about this, does the quill/head have enough travel for a deep mortise?
Would a mill be any more susceptible to wood dust than a drill press (which is a metalworking tool)?
The stroke on the G1005Z is 3-5/8", adequate for just about any furniture mortise -- maybe a little shallow for a big heavy door.
The tech rep at Grizzly was encouraging. But the motor on the mill is non-standard -- 3/4" shaft and an unusual mounting plate. My local electric motor shop is trying to source a 3,450 rpm replacement. I could probably also just use a different pully on the motor shaft, and then be able to use any standard 3/4 hp 3,450 rpm motor with a custom adaptor plate.
If you change the motor to one that is 2x faster you will reduce the life of the machine. It wasn't designed for the higher speeds and the bearings (and especially any gearing if it has any) won't take it. I think you should look at a WoodRat to do what you have indicated you want to make. But I belive you will buy the mill because that's what you want to do. Enjoy what ever you choose.
The mill and lathe have x,y, and z axis controls, on the table and the on the cross slide. A metal lathe is not very forgiving if you booger up the lead screws. Do you agree that the sliding table and locking hand wheels have more moving parts. That said, if you don't use it as a drum sander, you should have a long life span.I also think that the top speeds listed will be plenty if you choose cutters well. Nice upspiral flute bits in the correct diameters will go a long way. Buy it and try it, then worry about motor speed. I doubt that you will be able to run the table fast enough to cause speed problems cutting. At the worst you may need a little help with compressed air to clear the buildup of chips.
Commercial slot mortisers run about 3,600 rpm so you don't have to change the motor for milling a mortise for a tenon on the Grizzly G0517. We use 2 flute endmills in our slot mortiser.
I can't imagine that putting a higher speed motor would shorten the life of the machine. That's pretty much all they did on the larger mill/drill unit.
The bearings on the wood mill are actually different than those on the G1005Z. However, the tech I spoke with was encouraging because he said that the bearings on Grizzly's shapers are no different than those on the metal mill. The G0517, it turns out, is nothing more than a drill press with a small X-Y cross table. "Very light duty" was the tech's description. He said it isn't up to the task of serious milling over the long term.
I'm definitely not going to drop $1,000+ on any machine without due consideration and research (that's why I'm posting here). I may sound pretty enthusiastic about it (and I am -- it could be a versatile, accurate, and efficient machine that takes up relatively little of my precious space), but I'm also looking at other possibilities. The two operations that I want to be able to do accurately and efficiently are drilling and mortising. If I could cut tenons too that would be a bonus, but my tenon jig for the TS works pretty well enough. If there is a better system to cut mortises that doesn't require a dedicated stationary machine and could be stowed under a bench, then I would use that and just get a regular (or radial?) DP.
A couple of you are recommending the Woodrat. I've never used or seen one. How heavy is it? Can it be stowed away, or is it usually set up permanently? I certainly wouldn't save any money buying a woodrat and a DP, but would that combination be better than a mill?
Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it.
You could clearly tell by looking at the picture that the mill drill was just an older model benchtop dp, with no table and a x y table. Maybe you should drop $100 and try the x y table griz sells.
You don't seem as sure now that you talked to the tech guy. What type of drill press do you already have?
Maybe its time to sell it and upgrade to a bigger stronger model. Put a set of quick change table jigs, one with a greasy top for coolant and metal, one with a vise, one with a adj fence for woodwork, and one for a cross slide for milling/mortising.
Try a new post asking for people who mortise with milling attachments???
So, you want to learn about the WoodRat ehhh. Here are some links to the maker, sellers, etc., that will inform you enough to see if it's the toy for you. If you still have doubts then get the instructional/demo video/DVD.http://www.woodrat.com/index.htmlhttp://www.chipsfly.com/http://www.aldel.co.uk/ http://www.leevalley.com/wood/page.aspx?c=2&p=52709&cat=1,43000
NBT,
It may be at one of the links given, but I can tell you that the rat is very portable - you create a cleat on the wall to hang it from and you can easily lift in on/off.
I have two cleats: one so I have the rat at chest height when I'm standing on the floor (this is the normal spot); another high on the shed wall, so I can stand on a platform and use the rat to mill tails, pins, mortises or tennons in the end grain of long pieces (over 6ft) that hang down from the rat's vice.
You can drill with the rat using end-cutting straight router bits but that's about it. I suppose it might be possible to mount a portable drill in a small drill stand, in place of the router......
But there's a lot to be said for a separate floor standing drill press, which actually has a very small footprint.
North, you say you like it because it is more versatile than a drill press , plus there are lots of other operations that it could be used for.
You are quite correct. If you get the one with the long column that cranks up on the side handle there is a lot of space under the chuck. It also has a slow feed reduction in addition to the usual means-good for drilling metal especially when there is adanger of the grabs.
If you use two flute metal milling cutters they also work well on wood-there are long shanks and short shanks.
A compound table is great for woodworking purposes too.
I wouldn't bother with altering spindle speeds-they are all a good compromise- that machine has evolved over 30years or more from the original British version -you cab see them in ancient Model Engineering magazines (British). It was even copied in India-by the same guys who made Mercedes Benz lookalike trucks....
I have one that looks mighty similar to the Frizzilys in the link- but it is 11/2 horse 3 phase with 5/8" chuck and #3 morse taper. They also include a surfacing mill, which you can see there.
Also there is no problem whatsoever with wood dust-bearings are well protected and the motor (on mine0 is tefc.
You can do a lot worse than that.
And furthermore you A mericans are getting that Grizzily stuff at a discount! Philip Marcou
Edited 3/15/2006 4:31 am by philip
General makes three types of hollow chisel mortisers. The 75-050t for around 375 is a great choice.
NBT,
Have you considered a woodrat with a large router strapped on board? This gives you a milling machine where both the workpiece is moved and/or the mill (the router and its bit) is moved in all directions. You can do a lot of three-dimensional things with that combination. The woodrat handbook is full of methods for making joints I'd never even heard of.
I use mine primarily to make perfect mortises and tennons. It will make super-accurate square tennons or perfect round-ended mortises for floating tennons, amongst many, many other shapes. It can cut neatly in end grain with no problem at all.
The woodrat was originally invented to make variable dovetail joints and it does that with super accuracy too. You can mill the "wrong" way (with a climb cut) very safely, as both the router and the workpiece are tied down to the 'rat. This prevents any kind of breakout of even the most spelky wood fibres - perfect for neat tennons and tails/pins.
I doubt if you could mill anything harder than aluminium though.
Lataxe.
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