Replies

1. 
   SawdustSteve | May 17, 2005 03:21am | #1

   Sorry, No... It won't work. First, the citrus solvent won't disolve the shellac flakes. Second, the process depends on the alcohol RAPIDLY evaporating and leaving a THIN coat of dried shellac on the wood surface. SawdustSteve

2. 
   nikkiwood | May 17, 2005 05:23am | #2

   So why don't you want to thin it out with alcohol?

   ********************************************************
   "I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
   -- Bertrand Russell

1. 
   SWW | May 17, 2005 08:00pm | #3

   It's an allergy problem. I'm looking for finishes that don't put all that stuff in the air. So far, I've found a water-based spar varnish and the stuff calle "polycrylic". Both work well, but create a very harsh glossy finish. I'm making Windsor chairs, so it can be tough to rub out a gloss finish. I've also found that you can thin pure Tung oil with citrus solvent. But, it takes a good long time to build a pure Tung oil finish.

   I really like the look of shellac, and I like the way it goes on. So, I was hoping to find a non-alcohol shellac option.

   Thanks.

1. 
   polarsea1 | May 17, 2005 09:12pm | #4

   Check with Jeff Jewett at Homestead finishing. He carries Fuhr and Target coatings which are both waterborne. Target has a waterborne shellac.  There is a forum as well and you should be able to find something that will work for you.

   http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/

    

1. 
   SWW | May 17, 2005 09:35pm | #5

   Thanks for the link!

2. 
   SWW | May 17, 2005 09:40pm | #6

   Turns out that Target/Oxford is the maker of the water-based varnish that I've used. Great product. I don't know how I missed the reference to their shellac on homesteadfinishings page. Anyway, thanks again.

1. 
   SWW | May 19, 2005 08:23pm | #9

   Thought I would pass this on to the readers of this forum: The experts at Jeff Jewitt's company, homesteadfinishing.com, told me that the Target Ultraseal water-based shellac product is intended to be used as a sealer and should NOT be used as a finish. Not durable enough and too prone to water damage. Fair enough. I can definitely use it as a sealer!

2. 
   nikkiwood | May 18, 2005 12:17am | #7

   Water based products are getting better and better. I too would recommend Jewitt's company:http://www.homesteadfinishing.com/index.htmI would suggest you keep looking for other water based polys (other than the Minwax Polycrilic you mention); some that I have used have a very pleasing satin finish.********************************************************
   "I would never die for my beliefs because I might be wrong."
   -- Bertrand Russell

3. 
   AlanWS | May 21, 2005 01:21am | #10

   If you are trying to use water-based finishes for health reasons, you can probably also use shellac safely. Even if you are allergic to denatured alcohol, it's unlikely that you are actually allergic to the alcohol, probably to the denaturants. You might be OK if you buy some purer alcohol -- you'll just need to pay alcohol tax on it. Then if you get too much vapor, you might get a little bit tipsy, so the health tip would be to stay away from your power tools for a while. If you have decent ventilation, even that won't happen, and you'll need a beer after finishing to get to the same point. If the ethanol really is a problem, other alcohols also work with shellac: I'm not sure, but I think the premixed Zinsser stuff uses isopropyl alcohol (without water in it). That's the same stuff that's usually in rubbing alcohol, but don't use that since it has too much water in it. My wife is allergic to lots of stuff, and my shop is in the basement, so I also avoid most oil based finishes. But even though shellac puts alcohol in the air, it is very different from oil-based finishes in terms of allergies and toxicity. Shellac itself is considered so non-toxic that if you take a pill that is shiny on the outside, that is probably a shellac coating.

3. 
   Daggs | May 18, 2005 10:54pm | #8

   Take a look in Bob Flexner's book, Understanding Wood Finishing.  He makes a point about the chemistry involved in creating a solvent/solution.  I was a chemistry major years ago, but I don't play a chemist on TV, so take this with a grain of salt.

   Alcohol is a rather polar compound.  The molecular chemistry of it creates a relatively strong positive charge on one end of the compound and a strong negative end on the other.  One of these charges binds up with the lac molecule and allows it to go into solution.

   Organic solvents, such as MEK or MEC are non-polar compounds and won't dissolve lac, which I'm guessing is polar in nature.

   A polar compound should work.  Water is a weak polar compound, too weak to get a useable shellac cut.

   The trick is to find a different polar solvent.  Glycol (anti-freeze) would probably dissolve the lac, but I doubt that it would be a useable finish.  Have you tried wood alcohol?

   I'm not aware of any non-alcoholic polar solvents.  You could ask the Sherwin Williams guy.  Stay away from organic solvents, like toluene, naptha, etc.  I doubt they will work.