Replies

1. 
   CharlieP | Mar 13, 2004 03:12am | #1

   Take a look at the thread 14826.1 and the 50 or so responses. 

   ________________________
   Charlie Plesums  Austin, Texas
   http://www.plesums.com/wood

2. 
   Jeannie3 | Dec 05, 2006 08:40am | #2

   I would like like to buy my husband a software program for designing furniture but I don't know how to go about choosing a program that has the capability of chaning the shape of the legs, height of a table, depth of an apron, etc and at the same time is easy enough for a man with no CAD background.  I have watched contractors use programs for adding addition on to a house and click and change the style of the roof or the size of a window.  The same is true in the cabinet business at stores like Lowe's where with the click of the mouse they will show you what the finished cabinets will  look like with a raised panel or craftsman style or white compared to green. 

   Fine Woodworking reviewed CAD programs in Oct '04 (issue #172) but the software recommended is no longer available and the updated version didn't get rave reviews on the Amazon site.

   Thank you all for any advise you can share with me.

    

    

1. 
   DonaldCBrown | Dec 05, 2006 04:19pm | #3

   There is a program, Design Intuition, that has some of the features--such as selection from pre-designed elements--of the cabinet design programs you mention. It includes the drawing-alteration features that you mention For instance, you can change the proportions of a table top simply by entering new values without having to erase and redraw the lines.http://www.gizmolab.com/index.htmlThere is a free trial available, I believe.

1. 
   Jeannie3 | Dec 06, 2006 07:26am | #7

    

   Donald:

   Thank you for your very prompt reply.  I will take a look at this program.  I suspect I will be leaving a "card" under the tree rather than software.  I will pass on all the helpful suggestions I'v recieved to my husband and let him make the decission.  My gift will be the footwork!

   Thanks, again.

   Jeannie

2. 
   RickL | Dec 05, 2006 04:32pm | #4

   http://www.sketchup.com is free and available in windows or mac.The free version does pretty much all the pay version for the most part, especially for a novice.

1. 
   Jeannie3 | Dec 06, 2006 07:28am | #8

   Rick:

   Thank you for your prompt reply.  I think I will be leaving a "card" under the tree this Christmas rather than software.  My gift to my husband will be the footwork.  He can make the decission.

   I appreciate your taking the time to help me out.

   Jeannie

3. 
   mudman | Dec 06, 2006 12:57am | #5

   Jeannie,

   You are finding the problem that many woodworkers come to. The "best", "easiest", "most affordable" are not inclusive. The software that you saw at Lowes (Cabinet ware) and that you contractor used (Chief Architect) are very industry specific. they are great for what they are designed for, but they are very costly ($3,000 and up) and are limited in scope.

   Furniture design must be too broad to nail down into one simple, versitile package with a simple, trade oriented user interface. The programs that are out there are very limited. Complex 3D shapes are not possible, and some simple operations are not availible either. Right now the best software on the market seems to be Sketchup from Google. It is versitile and most importaintly it is easy to use. The free version is pretty usable, and I have seen people on this forum create pretty complex projects using it. As bad as I wanted it to work for me I was unable to get it to do what I need. I use Inventor by AutoDesk, it is expensive and hard to learn. People go to college to learn it. But I have never been limited by the software and can pretty easily get perfect 3D renderings and all the 2D shop drawings needed. Before this I used AutoCad. It is not 3D but I was not limited by that either.

   I assume that this is a gift, but the best option for your husband can only be figured out after he uses it. All the programs out there have free trial versions, most are full function. You might consider ordering 3 or 4 of them and letting him decide which is best. Be warned he will lock himself in the computer room for weeks trying them all!Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.

1. 
   Jeannie3 | Dec 06, 2006 07:19am | #6

   Mike:

   Thank you very much for the detailed reply.  I will look into all your suggestions and I suspect I will have to put a "card" under the tree rather than software.  It appears this will be more difficult than I anticipated.  DesignCAD 3D MAX V14 was the choice of Gregory Paolini when he reviewed the software in the Oct. 04 issure of Fine Woodworking.

   I'll let you know how it goes.  Thanks, again, for replying so promptly.

    

   Jeannie

1. 
   mudman | Dec 06, 2006 09:32pm | #9

   Jeanie,

   I hope I didn't scare you away. This type of software is very powerfull. It has truly revolutionised my work. I can now accurately design complex designs that would have been impossible with pen and paper. Some would challenge that statement, but I know it is true for certian.

   Another importaint note, almost as importaint as which software you choose, is getting training. The more popular software packages will have classes in your area. THey are typically 3 to 5 days and some are expensive. THere are online and DVD versions as well. There are usually no how to books written for the product other than the developers, and software developers do not write very friendly manuals.

   I am attatching pictures of a recient job. The 1/2" steel bars are bent very percisely, and the holes where they enter the table top are very difficult to figure out. The underside of the table is curved and so are the leg parts, so I had to drill the holes at two crazy angles tangent to the curved legs and and tangent to the curved table top. The cold rolled steel bar is very hard to bend and if the holes werent within a couple degrees of correct the parts would not have met to form the foot. Also the legs are perfectly symetrical in both directions. And if you look from the front or side all the legs line up. This efect also would have been lost without the correct measurements. The paper you see in the photos was printed full scale from the Cad program, it locates the holes describes the angles and the depth of the hole. I used simular print outs to serve as a guide for bending the legs. Without the CAD software  this kind of symetry and design could only have been done after lots of tedious full scale mockups in the shop.

   So your gift idea is a great one. It is particularly good for the guy who has all the tools he needs (or more).

   Merry XmassPardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.

   
1. 
   Jeannie3 | Dec 07, 2006 07:02am | #10

   Hi Mike:

   Thanks, again, for the helpful info and pictures.  That does look like a very difficult, precise project.

   Also, nice work room.

   When you suggest taking classes in your area, do you mean these are given by the software company or another source?  How do you find out about the classes?  We life in Boise, ID and the local woodworking store doesn't have such advance classes as far as I know.

    

   Jeannie

    

2. 
   user-196729 | Dec 07, 2006 08:59pm | #11

   Do you have a Technical College in your area?  They are an alternative to going to a regular college and the fees are reasonable.  I'm From Wisconsin and live within a few blocks of one.  They have various programs, taught by very well trained individuals that can give a person one on one help if needed.  A CAD program will usually be broken down into various skill levels and different periods.  That is: a basic course would be 6 weeks, a more advanced one would be 36 weeks.  Hope this helps!

3. 
   mudman | Dec 07, 2006 09:31pm | #12

   Both. A lot of it depends mostly on the populairity of the software. I use Inventor which is made by the largest CAD developer in the world. I also like in the Dallas Ft Worth area. As such there are lots of classes offered at local colleges (comunity colleges don't usually have classes on specific 3D software), seminars offered by the developer (expensive), seminars offered by approved instructors (sometimes less technical, and less expensive), and private tutors (usually offered by the sales rep that offers the software). More obscure software may not have any classes at all. For example I am not aware of anything for SketchUp. I have seen DVD based tutorials that are very well done. They are generally recorded during a real class so you get a lot of common questions answered by the class attendees. The easiest way to find classes is to go to the developers website and look under training. They will only list approved courses, so you might be able to find more but searching the web.

   A program that I have heard a lot of good things about the Alibre Design. There is a free version that is very functional. The pay version is $1,000. I havent used it, but I know others who swear by it. It suposed to be easy to learn. Finding classes for it should not be hard either.

   I haven't seen the FWW review you referenced. I generally put a lot of stock in their opinions. As far as my opinions, keep in mind that I am not just using the software to help design. I also have to be able to generate nearly perfect renderings of the job to present to the architect. I need to accurately represent the project in order to sell it. So I have to include a lot of detail that would normaly be omited for my own design purposes. I also make use of CNC technology when possible. These needs definately influence my idea of what is adequit. Most hobiest and some of the pros I know use CAD to develop the design and then revert to pencil and paper for the details of assembly and joinery.Pardon my spelling,

   Mike

   Make sure that your next project is beyond your skill and requires tools you don't have. You won't regret it.