Replies

1. 
   YesMaam27577 | Jan 16, 2009 10:52pm | #1

   Depends on whether you want end grain up, or long grain up. But in either case the procedure is pretty much the same.

   Cut all of the pieces to the size they need to be.

   Joint all of the edges so that glue-up will leave absolutely no gaps.

   Glue it all up, using a glue that is food-safe when cured.

   (Now here comes the really hard part, and the reason that the pre-made ones are expensive.)

   Now all you have to do is flatten the top, and give it a coat of food-grade mineral oil.

   Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.
1. 
   smslaw | Jan 17, 2009 12:01am | #2

   I used the same process to make some countertops out of cherry, but made it in sections that when glued up would fit through my 13 inch planer. I then glued the sections together and beltsanded the top. It's flat.

   Pretty much.

   More or less.

   Flatness is overrated.

   I used Waterlox as a finish.

   Edited 1/16/2009 4:01 pm ET by smslaw

1. 
   smslaw | Jan 20, 2009 06:00pm | #14

   I ran 4/4 rough cherry through the thickness planer and then ripped pieces 1 3/8 wide and glued it up in sections about 8-10 pieces wide. I planned the sections to the final size, 1 1/4 inch thick, and glued the sections together.

   My wife uses it to roll out dough on and seems happy with it.

    

   Edited 1/20/2009 10:01 am ET by smslaw

   Edited 1/20/2009 10:02 am ET by smslaw

   
1. 
   davcefai | Jan 20, 2009 08:55pm | #15

   Biscuits expand when wet so your initial sloppy fit will tighten up. Whether the wood will be drawn level is another matter.The other day I forgot some biscuits out of the watertight storage box and it was a damp night. The next day they were sufficiently swollen that thay had to be forced into the slots and would not have moved when I put the boards together.

2. 
   ASK | Jan 17, 2009 12:20am | #3

   I did a smaller butchblock top some years ago. By the time I got to gluing and clamping none of the pieces were flat any more. I had to buy what's called "Planer belts" for the belt sander. 40 grit. 60 grit.

   Flattened it and it is still pretty flat, but there had some separation in a couple of places over the years.

   I did buy a 36" dril bit and tried to run a hole through and put a steel rod through to keep the pieces together but that didn't work. Should have drilled the holes before I glued it up.

   Next time

   ASK

1. 
   HowardAcheson | Jan 22, 2009 05:53pm | #22

   >> I did buy a 36" dril bit and tried to run a hole through and put a steel rod through to keep the pieces together but that didn't work. Should have drilled the holes before I glued it up.Generally, threaded rod is not used as hardwoods have quite a bit of movement when it's moisture content changes. Threaded rod would restrict this movement and either deform the block or pull the nut/washers into the wood when it expanded leaving the rod performing no function when the wood later shrinks. Proper gluing will keep the block together.Howie.........

1. 
   Tinkerer3 | Jan 23, 2009 09:23am | #24

   I can see where threaded rod does wonders if put at one end to align the pieces up.  Tighten it up a little and it acts like a clamp.  But when  the glue has set, I would take the rod back out.  End of story.

   Edited 1/23/2009 1:24 am ET by Tinkerer3

2. 
   furbish_lousewort | Jan 24, 2009 10:16pm | #28

   I have noticed that on large commercial end grain butcher blocks (like Boos Blocks) there are always a couple of wooden plugs in the edges. Do you know if the plugs are covering up a threaded rod, or some other sort of stabilizer?

3. 
   flairwoodworks | Jan 17, 2009 07:06am | #4

   When assembling, it is well worth the time to groove each piece and mill some splines to fit in the grooves to keep each piece level with its neighbor.

   Chris @ www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
   (soon to be www.flairwoodworks.com)

    - Success is not the key to happines.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

4. 
   MikeHennessy | Jan 17, 2009 11:45pm | #5

   "When assembling, it is well worth the time to groove each piece and mill some splines to fit in the grooves to keep each piece level with its neighbor."

   Yep. Biscuits work too, and maybe even a bit faster depending on what tools you have on hand. Either buscuits or splines eliminate worries about any bending in the wood you may get when you rip it. (I like to make these out of 1-1/2" X 1-1/2" square sections. In your case, you should be able to get away without any butt joints since you should be able to get 8' 2-by maple easy enough.) 

   Also, the poster who said glue it up in about 12" sections, run them through the planer, then join the sections together and level the joints with a belt sander (or card scraper) gets my vote too. Note that you really need to move fast to spread that much glue and get the thing clamped before you run out of time. I usually end up only gluing 2 or 3 pieces at a time and assembling the 12" sections from these sub-sub-assemblies. Otherwise, I end up with everything covered with glue since I'm in such a hurry. I use a poly glue for these, but TBII should work as well.

   I finish my wooden tops, peels, etc., with mineral oil. Food safe and looks good. Easy to renew about once a year.

   Also, remeber that this is a work top -- you shouldn't worry if it looks, and is treated, as one.

   FWIW, I like wooden counters for working dough better than stone -- good choice.

   Mike Hennessy
   Pittsburgh, PA

1. 
   flairwoodworks | Jan 19, 2009 05:27am | #6

   Mike,How snug are your biscuits in their slots? Mine are a bit sloppy and require no force or wiggling to put in the slots when dry. They just drop in. Are my biscuits undersized perhaps? Or my cutter oversized?Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)

    - Success is not the key to happines.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

1. 
   MikeHennessy | Jan 19, 2009 03:39pm | #7

   It varies. Some are tight enough to require some force, but most are just tight enought that they won't fall out if you turn them upside down. I find that my slots get a bit sloppy if I'm not paying attention or am in a hurry and don't hold the tool perfectly still while making them. Still, not so sloppy that they don't do the trick.

   I can't think of a time I used biscuits as a structuraly element tho'. (Not saying they can't be used for that -- just that I don't. YMMV.) I only use them for alignment of any joints where things might move around a bit at glue-up time. The butcher block is a good example of that. Having to glue up five or more 10' 2X2s, none of which are particularly straight, and you almost have to either spline or biscuit.

   Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

1. 
   YesMaam27577 | Jan 20, 2009 02:23am | #8

   I tend to agree with Flair.....Every biscuit that I've ever used was just about worthless for purposes of surface alignment. There's just WAY too much slop in the slots.While I'll agree that they add strength tot he finished joint, my experience is that they don't help with alignment.Whenever I'm gluing up a larger panel, I spread the glue, and clamp the panel "softly". I then use my fingers to find areas lf the joints that are not in alignment, and a mallet to beat those areas into submission. When I'm satisfied (or is it just my masochism that has been satisfied?), I crank the clamps tight, and add cross-ways cauls and clamps.

   Politics is the antithesis of problem solving.

1. 
   MikeHennessy | Jan 20, 2009 03:00am | #9

   Well, dunno why, but my experience is that biscuits are, let's say, "fair" for surface alignment. Not perfect, but good enough that a touch with a plane or belt sander is all you need to true the surface. Useful in the right circumstances. I doubt they add any significant strength to the glue-up, since most edge-grain joints are more than strong enough for their intended use. When gluing up, say, a table top, I use the same method as you describe, sans mallet. (With my luck, I'd just dent the piece miserably.) ;-)

   In this case, the top goes through the planer one more time after joining up the five or so sticks, to clean up any minor maladjustments. I can't imagine doing this without biscuits or splines since the top is made up of five long sections (8 or 10 feet long usually) -- that would be a LOT of manual adjustment, while the glue is setting up trying to frustrate your adjustment attempts. Maybe some sort of  industrial glue spreader would help, but it takes me a LONG time to spread glue over this much surface so, bu the time the glue is spread, your clock is just about run out. IME, when working a piece this big, there just isn't enough open time for much fussing with cauls, adjustments, etc.

   Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

2. 
   flairwoodworks | Jan 20, 2009 04:22am | #11

   Mike,I would NEVER EVER rely on or expect biscuits to provide strength, only alignment. That's why I bought my PC biscuit joiner. I used it once and had to do way too much work after the glue-up leveling the joint. So I haven't used it since. I suppose that new fangled Festool would do the trick...Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)

    - Success is not the key to happines.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

1. 
   MikeHennessy | Jan 20, 2009 03:17pm | #13

   "I suppose that new fangled Festool would do the trick..."

   I'm sure it would -- the extra weight of all that surplus cash in your wallet can have a definite counterbalancing effect, rendering virtually all nearby surfaces out of level. The only solution is to either buy a Domino -- or, better yet, send your extra cash to me. I'd prefer the latter and the sooner the better. ;-)

   Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

2. 
   flairwoodworks | Jan 21, 2009 05:31am | #16

   But my Canadian currency isn't any good to you!Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)

    - Success is not the key to happines.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

3. 
   MikeHennessy | Jan 21, 2009 03:01pm | #17

   LOL. These days, any currency would be good -- even if it does have a picture of a duck on it. ;-)

   Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

4. 
   Tinkerer3 | Jan 23, 2009 09:14am | #23

   When I lived in Ithaca NY, a good percentage of the coins circulating were Canadian.  I still had some of those coins when I moved to Morgantown, WV and tried to spend them at a fast food place.  They wouldn't accept them.  Couldn't believe it.

2. 
   Bigbear333 | Jan 20, 2009 03:23am | #10

   Thankyou very mucch i believe I will be taking that plan of attack and will keep everyone posted with pics when done.

3. 
   Jammersix | Jan 22, 2009 08:35am | #20

   Now, this I don't get-- I never have any problems with glue ups, other than my patience.I get the glue spread, the pieces clamped together, then I stand there and dance from foot to foot thinking "Is it dry yet? Is it dry yet?"Of course, every time I check, it isn't, and I have to start over.When I saw that there were glues that had MORE open time, I thought to myself "what? Are these people crazy? Glue that takes LONGER to set? I want glue that sets up FASTER!"So I don't get why you want MORE time, when glues like Titebond have like an eighteen hour set time...[scratching head with a puzzled look on face]

1. 
   MikeHennessy | Jan 22, 2009 04:01pm | #21

   "So I don't get why you want MORE time, when glues like Titebond have like an eighteen hour set time..."

   While they have a *set* time of one hour at normal temps and humidity, and an overnight *curing/dry* time, they only have about 10 or 15 minutes of *working* time (i.e., get the parts glued, assembled and clamped during that window, or your joints will be weakened). Trying to get some assemblies glued, put together, straightened/squared and then clamped, all within 10 minutes, can sometimes be a bit of a challenge. Especially when at least 5 of those minutes are taken up just spreading the glue! Add to that the challenges imparted when the glue is a poly and foaming all over everything, woodworker included, and you have the makings of a woodworking comedy skit! ;-)

   Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

1. 
   Jammersix | Jan 23, 2009 09:25am | #25

   Ah. I see.Thank you.Now, how much "weakening" are we talking about?Seems to me that going from "way bad stronger than the wood" to "a little bit stronger than the wood" doesn't mean much.Are we talking about joint failure, or merely bullet proof to smaller bullets?

1. 
   MikeHennessy | Jan 23, 2009 03:09pm | #26

   Significantly weaker. See this thread: http://forums.taunton.com/fw-knots/messages?msg=45104.8

   The wood surrounding a properly glued & clamped joint will usually break before the joint will. In an improperly glued joint, the joint is often significantly weaker than the surrounding wood.

   I'm a strong proponent of the theory of "strong enough" vs. "strong as possible", but improperly glued joints are often not strong enough, and will pull apart pretty easily, especially if the joint style has little inherent mechanical strength. (E.g, I wouldn't worry too much about a nicely fit M&T joint, where I would worry more about an edge joint like in a table top.)

   Mike HennessyPittsburgh, PA

2. 
   Jammersix | Jan 23, 2009 11:11pm | #27

   Thanks, Mike! I'm off to read about glue joints. :)

5. 
   Buster2000 | Jan 20, 2009 09:23am | #12

   I made a heavy end grain cutting block a few years back... I swore I wouldn't do it again. 10"x16"x3"... The guy I built it for was a good friend, and a semi professional cook.

   First I was surprised by the amount of wood that went into it. There is a surprising amount of wastage. Second flattening the top was a nightmare. I didn't use the planer as I was afraid of tear out (being end grain), as well I've heard of these guys catching and being torn apart (so make very lite cuts if you try). So I used a belt sander... The results were fine, but it was much more work than I expected. Considering the size of a counter I'd really look into buying.

   But good luck.

1. 
   BCFred | Jan 21, 2009 10:13pm | #18

   I wonder if flattening the surface of the block might not be better done with a router?   It sounds like a lot of work goes into the project and there are jigs that can be built for flattening fairly large surfaces using a router.  It might be worth the work of making one.  I liked the idea of using the planer too and could be tempted to try.  If I did it I might try to eliminate chipping of the sides by gluing extensions to them and removing them after planing.  Not sure about ducks on money yet, but since reading the end of the posts here I am checking...Fred 

6. 
   ScottZ | Jan 22, 2009 05:54am | #19

   Assemble your counter top, pre drill for threaded rod every two to three feet for longevity never mind how rough it looks after glue up, take it to a cabinet shop that has a sufficiently large commercial drum sander and it will look like it came form a factory.

   scott

7. 
   bones | Jan 25, 2009 01:11am | #29

   Did you look at this site? Their prices seemed resonable.  I found them back when I was looking to do a workbench. 

   http://www.perfectplank.com/maple_wide_lam_butcher_block_tops.html

   Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases:
   If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it.
   And if it stops moving, subsidize it.
   
1. 
   Bigbear333 | Jan 26, 2009 03:59am | #30

   Thankyou very much I will be able to use this site for other factions of my business and my partner with the cnc will also be able to use the site for sign blanks. Thank you again.

    

    

1. 
   bones | Jan 26, 2009 04:28am | #31

   No problem.  It's one of those links I put in my browser favorites and hung on to.  Glad to pass it along.  Like I said I never did business with them, but they looked interesting.  If you do business with them let me know how it turns out. I'm considereing changing my countertops and thought it would look neet. 

    Government's view of the economy could be summed up in a few short phrases: If it moves, tax it. If it keeps moving, regulate it. And if it stops moving, subsidize it.

1. 
   Bigbear333 | Jan 26, 2009 09:36pm | #32

   No Problem letting you know. First I have to weigh through the red tape of getting it to Canada. I only live like a driver 3wood and pitching iron across the Detroit River to Detroit but need to go through customs money exchange etc. and oh yea have a place to have it delivered to. So don't hold your breath waiting for an answer. But I will when I know.

   Thanks again for the tip and safe woodworking to you