Hello all,
I’ve just finished a display case with backing of sycamore. I flattened it with a card scraper, but never really got the scraper dialed in. Occasionally, i’d get a glimpse of the realm, but mostly I was pushing dust. Resorted some to the ROS, but that was mostly depressing, so I keep resorting to pushing on…
I’ve watched several videos on sharpening and burnishing on this site and others. I’m reasonably confident that I’m getting the scraper prepped well, and have the feeling the issue is the burnisher, in part because re-burnishing has never gone well. Have tried light pressure, moderate pressure, etc. The burnisher I have is a 2 cherries oval one that doesn’t instill confidence since it looks hard, but isn’t well polished.
I’m looking for advice on either technique and/or recommendations on a failsafe burnisher (has anyone had success with a 2 cherries one?). I of course like the thought that this is simply a matter of equipment failure (as opposed to the alternative: operator error…).
Thanks in advance!
Chris C.
Replies
Whatever you use, has to be very hard and very polished. Make sure you have a square edge filed, then stone smooth. When burnishing, you don't need high pressure. It's been said to apply pressure similar to buttering bread.
Eventually it will work.
I too had middling luck getting a card scraper to work. Then when I followed the advise of laying the card flat, burnishing the edge out parallel to the surface before placing the card vertically in a vice and turning the edge, I said wow. It really works.
I think we can get way too fussy with card scrapers and edges. A simple flat file to remove the edge when it gets work hardened seems fine. I use an old screw driver as a burnisher. I know many will say how crude, but it works. So I think your burnisher is probably just fine.
Peter
Scrapers aren't easy. Takes an angel on your shoulder
This burnisher is so expensive it takes my breath away but it works. It is hard, smooth and I don't mind paying for polish and pretty so I am happy with it.
http://www.highlandwoodworking.com/cliftonhssscraperburnisher.aspx
I tried all the options. Screw drivers and what not never came close; too lumpy and not hard enough. The best thing that was just lying around, like a screw driver, was one of the carbide end mill metal cutting bits I have. Slices up my fingers to use it though.
I am thinking the reason a screw driver might work for some and not for me is the scrapers I have chosen are on the hard end of the scale and need a hard burnisher. I don't know.
There is lots more info on scrapers here if you search.
Also
Part of the reason I wound up with hard scrapers is I was looking for scrapers that were properly prepared by the makers. The cheep scrapers were distorted ( bent over where they were sheared off the sheet ) and wavy and so the edges were difficult to square up and flatten on the stones.
Good flat scraper, hard smooth burnisher, light pressure after proper squaring up on the file and stones . . . viola curly stuff rather than dust. (assuming that angel is there to guide one)
Idaho,
It is good to have a hard burnisher. I prefer carbide over steel. I recommend the Lie Nielsen carbide burnisher, which is only $45, which is just a bit higher than the one Roc recommends.
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=1-CBurn
HOWEVER, I am not sure that is your problem. Folks have gotten great results with steel burnishers for a long time. My guess is that there is something you are doing wrong. Best way to figure things out is to get with someone who knows how to fettle a scraper, and spend an hour with them.
I belong to a woodworkers guild. Whenever a similar question comes up, it is easy to find someone who has the needed skill and is willing to teach you. So if you live near a woodworkers group, join it. If not, look for a good woodworker in the yellow pages and give him a call. Maybe he'll take the time to show you and watch to see what you are doing wrong.
Do you live near a Woodcraft or a Rockler or any other woodworking store? If so, go on down and someone there should give you a lesson.
Why not find someone on Knots who lives near you who is willing to give you a lesson? Just ask!
Even if you have a lousy burnisher, about the worst than can happen is that you are scratching up the edge and it is not perfect, but you will still be able to raise shavings. That tells me that it is probably something you are doing wrong rather than your burnisher. Besides, you can always polish up your burnisher. Why not start by doing that. Can't hurt much.
IF no one can or will stop over to give you a lesson, then try more alternatives. Try changing the angle you are burnishing at. Make sure to file your edge, and then hone the flat sides well to get rid of the previous hooks. Then try holding the scraper at different angles and scraping.
IF all else fails, fix up your scraper the best you can, and mail it to me. I'll try it and see what happens. Then I'll put an edge on it and send it back. If I can do it, then you can do it. Heck, you are smarter than I am.
Let me know if I can help, but I'd recommend finding someone locally. Scraping is very easy, once you get the hang of it.
Have fun.
Mel
I'm no expert on scrapers but when I had problems getting one to work right I found that I was trying too hard to make too big of a hook. At one time I spent hours turning a huge hook that just made sawdust. Then I found that a hook that I could hardly feel at all was making shavings. Also I used to see a step in prep that I think was called consolidation. I can't remember seeing that step shown anymore and it made a difference for me. I have a triangular burnisher that I don't use anymore that I think was a 2 Cherries. I have a jig I bought from Woodsmith Shop that holds a file at 90 degrees and has a built in burnisher too. That seems to work for me now using a light touch.
Mel, it's good to see you back on line. I went to the last Guild meeting got a lot out of it. Nice folks. No trouble finding it.
Surprise ending...
Peter and Tony, thanks for the tips, I have been following most, but have been probably using too much pressure.
Roc and Mel, I too am a sucker for shiny bright things... a new burnisher may be in the works-think I can get the Hock rod for ~$15 through a local dealer.
Mel, Thanks always for you kind words and encouragement. Your offer to fettle my card up is particularly generous (an I doubt i'm smarter than you!). I live in Moscow which has a surprising number of woodworkers, but no guild that I'm aware of. Am connecting with several in the community, but haven't yet hooked up with a hand tool nut. Have a new friend that moved to town recently, though he's building a house and his shop is still in storage.. Perhaps this winter.
I took a look at my burnisher with a magnifier this AM and the rod is visibly pitted throughout (its an oval 2 cherries I got new, though long enough ago that a return is out of the question). So it may be hard, but its not polished and the pitting looks like it would be impossible to get out or at least way more work than it would be worth.
And now for the surprise. I picked up the scraper that I had been using to push dust on sycamore a couple weeks ago while working late nights to finish the display case on deadline (we were traveling to TN to see my parents; the case was a gift for my dad). Put it to some red oak this morning and Roc's angels sang. All curls. Tried it on the sycamore and mostly dust. So guess I had it right, but on the wrong wood (presumably the sycamore's just to soft to push curls all the time.) Still think i'll get a new burnisher and will keep playing with the pressure (especially aiming for lighter pressure and smaller burs).
Here's some shots of the case-- its for balsa bass lures built by a good friend of his.
Cheers,
Chris C.
wrong wood
You know . . .you have got me reconsidering now . . . some of my failed attempts may have been on pine 2x4s (what ever was close to hand) and perhaps if I had used the same scraper on harder wood . . . who knows . . .
>hoing<
I think you may have misread Rob's instructions I would guess he doesn't go hoing. Much. Well probably not at all. Well that is . . ., what I ment to say was. . . I don't mean to say . . . uh oh . . . time to bail out here.
You know Roc, I don't think I've ever had a scraper work correctly on pine! Even some of the "softer" hardwoods can be a tiny bit problematic. If I find sometime that won't work, I'm not opposed to grabbing some sandpaper.
For an inexperienced scraper user, such as the original poster, I would suggest some practice on some walnut or cherry, with the OP using a variety of methods to set up the scraper (ranging from filing and then turning a burr to a full tilt filing, stoning and buttering lightly). Sooner or later, the OP will find with keeping his tongue help out of his mouth a certain way, when balancing on his right leg with the left bent upwards at the knee, while squinting with his left eye, while tilting his head to the right, that shavings mysteriously come off the scraper easier than a plane (while burning the hell out of your fingers!).
To the OP, try varying your methods, including a lighter burr and varying the tilt of the scraper. You'll get it.
Pressure and progression are the key
Chris,
I use a broken carbide end mill shoved into a file handle as a burnisher. An old solid carbide router bit would work too.
The key to a good edge is the right pressure and progressing from a square edge to a hook, in stages. The following link has some information on sharpening a card scraper.
http://rlmillard.typepad.com/my_weblog/2008/03/index.html
You may have to cut and paste the link.
Rob Millard
http://www.americanfederalperiod.com
Thanks Rob-- I like the simplicity of your filing and hoing approach!
That's excellent advice Mel !
>Best way to figure things out is to get with someone who knows how to fettle a scraper, and spend an hour with them< That's excellent advice. Sure does help to see some one do it and get feed back from them. (I was thinking Mel; if I mail all MY scrapers to you would you sharpen them up and mail them back to me?)
A thread on burnishing burnishers
Roc,
maybe what we need is a thread on burnishing burnishers.
However, the Uber-burnisher, which is used to burnish the burnisher also has to be well burnished.
Mel
PS I don't think I want to go into the business of sharpening scrapers. I am enjoying being retired.
The Scraper Shaper-Upper
Some of us retired folks are just scraping by, so to speak, so there would be some irony in such an enterprise. Unless, of course, we get "burnished" to the hinterlands for bad jokes. Oh wait, I'm already in the hinterlands. ;-)
Ralph,
The Samurai lived by the code of Bushido!
The Woodworker lives by the code of Burnishido!
Live by the burnisher. Die by the burnisher. THE CODE OF THE WOODWORKER!
Mel Toranaga
the code
Toranaga-san,
Burnishido. I like that.
Didn't Clint Eastwood do a film in a similar hand-tool vein? "The Auger Sanction," or something likie that? ;-)
Burnishido
Barker-sensei,
I will never again try to play one-upsmanship with you again. You are too good. "The Auger Sanction" just blew me over. We need a thread by that name.
Now let's get down to business.
Konbanwa, Barker-sensei. Nanika atta? Dou shiteru? Kawatta koto aru? Ittekimasu. =
Good evening, Teacher Barker, What's up? How's everything? What's new? Gotta go.
Have fun.
Mel
ralph,
Don't forget "The
ralph,
Don't forget "The Miracle (Wood)worker", starring Pa(tty)douk Aspen.
Ray
Hey Mel,
I thought you lived by the code of the bruschetta.
Ray
Ray,
I have a double standard.
I live by the code of Burnishido when I am scraping, but by the code of Bruschetta when using hand planes. I have found that the best way to grease the sole of a plane is with a piece of salami.
Mel
What do you use on....
Mel,
On the Bruschetta Code; What do you use on a bevel up smoother? Cacciatora? or Sopressata? or are you more of Fegatelli greaser of planes. Surely not Saucisson sec? If nothing else your shoop must smell great.
Ciao Dan,
Sempre uso sorpressata! Sorpressata e' il migliore.
A presto,
Il tuo amico,
Melvino
What do you use on....
Mel,
On the Bruschetta Code; What do you use on a bevel up smoother? Cacciatora? or Sopressata? or are you more of Fegatelli greaser of planes. Surely not Saucisson sec? If nothing else your shop must smell great.
Just checkin'
I figured you would want me contine to get the full pleasure from my wood working and not take the fun of scraper maintenance for yourself but figured I would offer anyway.
Yep those burnisher burnishers gotta be burnished by a burnisher burnisher. All part of the natural way of things.
The burnishing of the burnishers and also overseeing of that onerous task can be automated. I need all who are interested to forward me at once $1,400,000.00 in US dollars (I will require bank account information to effect an orderly transfer of finds to my account).
In return you will each receive a burnished burnisher, along with a burnished scraper blade, etched with a "Knothead" and certificate of appreciation from SWMBO for giving her access to more funds needed to continue burnishing her shoe habit.
roc,
For a long time, the smoother plane has been THE sine qua non of tools here in Knots' Hand Tools forum. It's reign has ended.
The future KING OF TOOLS will be the SCRAPER.
In its service will be the faithful BURNISHER.
In service of the Burnisher will be the Electron Microscope, which every workshop will need.
I have heard that Holtey is coming out with an INFILL Scraper holder.
I hear that Highland Hardware is coming out with a new scraper "living quarters" which features built in positive air flow to keep dust from settling on the tool, and built in rust prevention.
Heck I hear that Harbor Freight is coming out with an electron microscope for only $8.99.
I predict the market for smoothing planes will crash as the cost of scrapers and burnishers and their accessories soars.
Have fun. Don't stop riding. Bicycles are here to stay.
.Mel
I'm the least expert on scraper on this thread
But I needed a curved scaper to finish a chair seat and could not find the one I had so a made one from a skinning knife. I took a flat mill file to the blade until I had about 1/32" flat edge then burnished it with a round screwdriver shaft held at about 80 degrees of angle to each edge using a goodly amount of pressure and several good strokes. I was pulling up nice shavings right off. This was simple, no mystery here. The skinning knife was from good steel I guess, made in Western Germany.
This was a good use for the knife because I've had it for decades and never skinned anything with it. Its a liitle strange using a scaper with a knife handle but I'm getting used to it.
Bret
Always use a little oil when burnishing, and don't make the angle much more than 5 degrees, and see what happens.
If you use a highly polished carbide burnisher, oil is not needed. For normal burnishers, just rub the burnisher alongside your nose and that will be enough to lubricate with (and if you're Sicilian like moi, you may have enough oil left on the rod to lube the squeaky rocking chair up in the living room that SWMBO constantly harps about).
There are more and more folks on knots who know about SWMBO. Third ref in a month. I love it.
SWMBO is the 800 pound gorilla that is always in the room (and I hope she isn't looking over my shoulder at this moment).
Banish the burnisher
And all other pointy objects least SWMBO should happen to read your post. I am a coward and do not dare post such things as the SWMBO of this realm is a master with a rapier and sword and the junior SWMBO a black belt. Fortunately there is a lot of heavy iron to hide behind in the shop.
BTW I glued up a sixteen staved maple cylinder this morning and was just using my skinning knife/scraper. It is an odd yet excellent tool. It pulls up nice long ribbons of maple and has not lost it's edge yet. I'll have to come up with something with a tighter radius for the inside.
Bret
You haven't been pushed around til you get it from your 4 year old GrandSWMBO.
Burnisher options
Just back from WIA (are we allowed to mention that here?), burnisher types came up. First, avoid Crown burnishers. Too soft, and not polished make them likely to gall. Marc Adams, who studied with Tage Frid, uses his option of using the side of a chisel as a burnisher. Just make sure its well polished, and from good steel. Another option that I am taking, is from a new tool maker, Czech Edge, (not working for them) who sell burnishers and (the way I am going; its cheaper), kits to add your own handle to the steel.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled