Replies

1. 
   BArnold | Sep 01, 2004 12:47am | #1

   Assuming this is an air outlet and not a return, why not incorporate it into the design?  You didn't say how tall the bookcase will be but let's assume 8' if you have 8' ceilings.  I've done a lot of work on cabinetry for boats and it's very common to incorporate both vents and returns into the design by using a series of narrow cutouts along the top of a cabinet.  This is usually in the form of a header panel that can be as little as, say, 3" high with cutouts 2" long by 1/2" wide.  This could extend along the width of your bookcases for as long as is necessary to achieve the same outlet area as the original vent.  An inset panel at the rear of the bookcase would then channel air to the top and across to the new openings.  If the actual 'new' vent holes only need to be along the top of one section of the bookcase, you could continue the 'look' by milling identical panels for the other sections and back them with a panel painted flat black.

   Bill Arnold

   Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.

   
   

   ---

   Edited 9/1/2004 11:53 am ET by BArnold

2. 
   nikkiwood | Sep 01, 2004 03:08am | #2

   Sounds as though incorporating the vent into your design is the best/easiest solution.

   But have you given any thought at all to moving the vent?

   Chances are the ducting runs straight up the wall (from the floor level). Since the new book case will cover up the wall, you could break through to cover up the old vent, and reinstall a new duct/vent that could run through the toe kick of your book case.

3. 
   notDusty | Sep 01, 2004 05:02am | #3

                            Bill ,

             I have used solid wood register covers , the type that get used in hardwood floors . You can cut them up , or glue them up and re size them to suit your needs. You could cut a lip and set it over a cabinet back .

                              Good Luck                         dusty

    

4. 
   Dave45 | Sep 01, 2004 06:52am | #4

   Could that be a cold air return?  If it is, you don't want t to obstruct the flow.

1. 
   BArnold | Sep 01, 2004 02:21pm | #5

   Sounds like a vent rether than a return with a size of 8" by 10".  Regardless, if you transfer the overall area from one point to another, air flow won't be restricted.  Example: 8x10 = 80 square inches (available area is something less if you count the louvers); 2" by 1/2" slots = 1 square inch each, so it would take 80 slots (or less) to equal the area of the vent.

   Bill Arnold

   Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.

1. 
   Dave45 | Sep 01, 2004 05:58pm | #6

   You're right about the size suggesting a vent - although that's a big bigger than most of the vents I typically see here in CA.

   The only other potential problem I see is that bookcases always have 'stuff' on the shelves and enough 'stuff' can cause a reduction in air flow from (or into) the vent.  Ideally, the vents should be relocated but that seldom happens so I would try to keep the shelf nearest the vent as clear as possible (i.e. pictures and knick-knacks instead of a 'wall' of books) - lol

1. 
   BArnold | Sep 01, 2004 07:15pm | #9

   "The only other potential problem I see is that bookcases always have 'stuff' on the shelves and enough 'stuff' can cause a reduction in air flow from (or into) the vent."

   I was concerned that my description might not be as clear as it could be.  The attached drawing should help.

   Bill Arnold

   Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.

   
2. 
   CharlieP | Sep 01, 2004 07:01pm | #7

   Bill, I like your solution, but there is some fluid dynamics involved (I am an electrical engineer, so don't know the formulas for this fluid stuff).  What I do remember, though, is that the flow is less efficient along the edge, so if you have lots of smaller openings, rather than a big one, you need to allow more space.  80 square inches of small openings will probably work, but not as efficiently as a single large 80 square inch opening.  Intuitiviely I might go for 120 square inches of 1 inch wide openings or 100 square inches of 2 inch wide openings, unless the flow were very streamlined to minimize turbulence, like the traditional metal duct cover. ________________________Charlie Plesums  Austin, Texashttp://www.plesums.com/wood

1. 
   BArnold | Sep 01, 2004 07:26pm | #10

   Charlie,

   I agree.  I greatly over-simplified my description.  The dimensions of the actual air delivery portion of the vent is the starting point.  For instance, most of the vents in our house are "8x10" with the open area being more like 6x8.5.  Assuming the vent cannot be relocated higher on the wall, an offset in the back of the cabinet is one solution.  The slotted header could extend the entire length of the bookcase rather than closing off any of the slots.  If the velocity of the air exiting the slots is not as high as desired, one could then close off some to achieve a higher velocity.  Another thing to remember to do is roundover the edges of all components across which the air will flow.

   Bill Arnold

   Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.

1. 
   wpenny | Sep 01, 2004 11:51pm | #11

   I'll reply here to several of the posts. A lot of good ideas here and I think I will check the size of the vent to be more sure.  I'm building floor to ceiling bookcases and hadn't really thought of building that into the design. It's just the one vent that I have to deal with so it would  seem to be overkill  to make some series of vents.  I was thinking of using a wood register cover for it, but was wondering about  other options.

      I too am very concerned about clutter in front of the vent since I do tend to let things pile up everywhere (ask my wife).  I need to make sure that fixing the vent problem doesn't become a bigger project than building the bookcases. It's already gone on longer than my wife has patience for (a longer story for another time).

      I hadn't thought about trying to place the vent elsewhere, I just assumed that it came up through the studs with metal duct work that would be hard to move. I'll take another look tonight to confirm that.    Our walls are 9' in this room and the vent is close to the ceiling so perhaps it really is an air return.  There are additional ones on the other walls, but I certainly don't want to restrict it.

5. 
   migraine | Sep 01, 2004 07:13pm | #8

   Ther's a good chance that the ductwork is over head and it is quite easy to move a duct and mount it in the ceiling in front of the cabinet..  if the duct is coming up the wall, remove a piece of drywayy and extend the duct up through the top plate. Be carefull about bearing walls/exterior walls.  Since the cabinet is covering the wall, your drywall patch doen't need to be perfect, unless you plan on taking the cabinet with you when you move.  either way,  it's not too expensive to pay someone to do the patching for you.

   I had a similar problem in our old house and we extended the duct through the cabinet at an upward 45 degree angle and up through the ceiling and then out through the ceiling in front of the cabinet.  Where the ductwork was, the cabinet was only about 3" deep, because of the false panel, but it did not break up the visual flow of the cabinetry.  Then, the wife put a few nick-nacks on the shelf and it practically disappeared.  No drywall repair work on this method. and it was an exterior wall. 

   None of these suggestions are difficult, more that it takes alot of time thinking about it.  Time wouln't be more than 2-4 hours, once you have the material your need.  I think I spent more time at Home depot than doing the job.

6. 
   johnhardy | Sep 03, 2004 05:39am | #12

   For the vent, I'd incorporate it into the design ... I'd make a rectangular box a tad larger than the vent opening and make a wooden vent cover that goes on the outside of the bookcase. This way nothing would obstruct the vent, and with the cover the same wood as the rest of the bookcase it'd blend right in.

   You also mention covering up some outlets. That's a very bad thing to do. No electrical box should be covered up and hidden. The code prohibits it. If there's a problem it can't be fixed. I guarantee you that there are electrical connections in the box which, theoretically, could fail over time. You need to figure out some way to make these accessible for future work.

   John

7. 
   Dave45 | Sep 03, 2004 05:29pm | #13

   When I first read your post I missed the part about covering the outlets.......DON"T DO THAT.

   Electrical codes are very specific about not closing off electrical splices and connections.  It's a serious safety issue.  When I do bookcases, I extend the outlets through the back of the cabinet and sometimes use a wood receptecal cover.  At the very least, they're accessable and sometimes they come in handy.

1. 
   wpenny | Sep 07, 2004 07:15pm | #14

   Thanks for the advice on the outlets. I was planning on moving them but not aware of the code to keep them available. I got some help and moved the outlets and left nothing covered! This turned out to be easier than expected since I have a basement underneath where the wires were run rather than through the studs. We even put an extra outlet in for possible lights in the future. 

      Thanks for the advice on this. I'm moving along but it takes time doing this just on the weekends. This week is patching some sheetrock from moving the outlets and then on to the moulding for the bookcases.

         For now, I'm planning on creating a grill for the vent through the back of the bookcase and keeping it clear. My wife wants to stick some pottery pieces on the shelves anyway to break up the books so this should be okay. It's far from optimal but should work out.   There's one other air return in the room also.

   Thanks again for the help.

1. 
   Dave45 | Sep 07, 2004 09:09pm | #15

   Some pottery should be fine - it won't really obstruct the air flow very much.  A row of books would be another problem - lol