I’ve been looking at replacing my front door. To replace it with an identical door would run between $500 and $700. It’s a fiberglass six-panel door with a stainable wood grain texture. It has two 14″ full length lites on either side of it (replacement of the lites not included in the price). From reviews I’ve read, they aren’t making them like they used to.
I’ve been considering building a door instead of buying one. I’d keep the sidelites as they are. At the very minimum I’d like to build a six-panel solid door. It would be nice to do something a little fancier though.
I’ve never made a full size door. I’ve made dozens of cabinet doors though but I realize it’s not the same.
I think I should have all the tools necessary to do the job. Besides a table saw, I have a thickness planer, drum sander, spindle sander, mortiser, door making router bits and LN chisels and planes. I don’t have a jointer. The largest plane I have is a LN 62 jack plane.
I have some very straight grained African Mahogany in my shop right now that I’ve had for over a year. One piece is 96″x12-1/2″x2-1/2″ and the other is 48″x6″x1-3/4″. That could be a start on the rails and stiles. The door would have to be 1-3/4″ to fit the existing frame. I’m just not sure how the AM would hold up to the weather. I live in the Chicago area but the door will be behind a good quality storm door. There is a porch with a roof over it that shields the door from almost all direct sunlight, wind, rain, etc.
Outside of pressure treated lumber, I’ve never built anything with any other lumber that will be exposed to the elements. I see solid wood doors that are made out of oak (white, I’m presuming), mahogany, alder and douglas fir. If the AM I have would be a good wood choice I might use that since I already have it and I think it would work well with the trim color on my house.
Another question I have is with the panels. I know the panels have to float but would the dimension the panel is recessed into the rails and stiles be deeper than a cabinet door? I was thinking of a deeper recess and inserting foam spacers in the grooves to keep the panels from rattling when they shrink and add a little insulation too.
I’ve Googled for plans, instructions, videos for building an exterior door and have only found how to do it with router bits and that information left a lot of questions. Any help with these questions or where I could find the answers would be greatly appreciated. Then I can decide if I will tackle the project or just buy a door.
BTW, I can buy this door (no frame or hardware) for about $600. It’s solid Brazilian Mahogany. Would that be the better choice for someone who has never built an entry door?
Replies
Door
Fine Home building had some threads regarding exterior door construction. If you like the style of the one pictured I guess the easy way is to buy it but I think you will build something. Can router bits do what you need where the rails meet. Finishes need something every 5 years or less unless it's the fiberglass - you'll get a little more - they are a glazed finishes.
SA
I know the panels have to float
FWW Magazine did a piece on exterior doors a long time ago that had the panels in the door back to back doubles. That is, each panel was made of an interior panel and an exterior panel and they were back to back and floating. The panel facing the outdoors could then expand and contract independent of the panel facing the inside of the house. I can’t remember if they said this was necessary or just some overkill idea of an OCD woodworker.
Foam spacers sound like a good idea.
I fiund this on Knots
(post #73382, reply #22 of 45)
by Barrie2777 in reply to Anonymous [original] on Sat, 02/11/2006 - 02:23
Cypress is a wood I have never worked but I am sure that like most woods it will make fine entrance door if worked properly. Rip your slab into rail and stile parts. Select the straightest grained pieces for the stiles and go from there. I use a double panel sandwich on exterior door I make. This lets each panel move independantly depending on thier environment ( outside -40 or inside +72 ).
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SA, you're right, I am leaning more towards making it than buying it. Making a door like the one in the picture might be difficult though without some pretty detailed step-by-step instructions. FWW 227 has an article about making curved moldings on the router table that I could apply to the curves in the door. That would be really cool to learn something like that. Of course making the door would be far more gratifying than buying one.
I wrote the website with that door. The door comes unfinished and they charge $201 for shipping. That adds another negative to buying one. I will make one out of construction lumber first to get some practice and see if I can do it. That will be when it's either too hot to work outside or too cold. I still have a lot of things to do around here before the fall hits.
Swenson, the idea of back to back panels makes a lot of sense. My mind went to "can you sandwich any sort of insulation in between them?" Then I started wondering if it would make any sense trying to figure out a way to create the rails and stiles in such a way as to be able to add insulation.
The photo you posted motivates me to give soemthing like this a try. Did you use a machine for the tenons or was that done by hand with a router and guide?
I'm getting the impression making a door requires machine percision or highly skilled hand tool specialists.
No
I have never done this. I just remembered an article in FFW about the double panels and when I searched for it the old Knots post came up, but that was not my post or my picture. I have never made an entrance door but I think that would be fun. We just spent a small fortune last year on new windows, skylights and doors during a big stink bug attack that hit Northern Virginia so I will not get a chance to try my hand at doors for quite some time.
I just tried to search again and found an article in FineWoodworking #226 called How to Build Your Own Front Door by Josh Finn. You can look at a PDF of the whole article if you are a member of FWW. Looks like a very complete how to but it doesn't use the sandwich panel method. It does get into windows though.
I have that issue and I read the article. For some reason it didn't motivate me. I think it was too plain and something you might see on a farmhouse from the 50's. But the basic how-to information was there.
Freud and CMT both have entry door router bit sets. I have the CMT sash bit set I bought a long time ago but never had the occasion to use it. I've read the instructions for both the Freud entry doot set and the CMT sash bit set. They both seem uncomplicated but time consuming. I just keep reading things about how the door has to be perfect and the wood very straight and stable. One thing I do know is an all wood door cannot compete with a manufactured composite door when it comes to insulation and holding up to the elements.
Last night, I thoroughly read the article "Curved Moldings On The Router Table" by Mickey Callahan (FWW 227). It seems pretty straightforward. He showed how to make a version of a pin router to create the moldings. He used 2" PVC as the pivot point. The photo on p. 77 shows him working on a large router table. LOTS of chips and dust! I think I would retrofit the 2" PVC for dust collection. A 2" hose on top and a modified 4" to 2" PVC reducer on the bottom.
But that method would be great for making curved moldings on the door, like the one in the photo in my first post. I would get a great sense of accomplishment doing something like that.
After years of making things out of mainly 1x wood, I'm getting the itch to work with timber sized lumber. To me that's anything larger then 1x. The only problem is the weight. I think a 1-3/4" solid wood door would be pushing my limits so anything bigger I'd have to get some help. Too bad my big strong son is all thumbs. My daughter was the one who got my skill genes but she's so busy now building a business I see her maybe once a month. Oh well, gotta forge ahead!
My daughter got my skill genes...
Strange how that can happen. My grandfather worked on high steel but my dad couldn't figure out how to use an electric knife on a turkey. He was brilliant in the world of books and publishing, but anything mechanical was a mystery. My mom could build anything so I guess I got the genes from her. Have fun with the door.
I "blame" it on my dad!
My dad was a perfectionist and accepted nothing less from his children. Straight A's or you heard from him! But he was all thumbs and clueless about how to fix things. One day he said he wished a phone in the TV room could be moved to his bedroom. This was back when everything was screw terminals. That cover on the box was enough to stop him dead cold in his tracks.
While he was at work I found one of his screwdrivers. I think I was about 8 or 9 at the time. I removed the cover on the box and found the wires were color coded. I knew there was another box in his bedroom behind the night stand. I relocated the phone, made sure it worked and said nothing after he got home. Later he came downstairs and asked who moved the phone. I said I did. He raved about that for months. Years later he was still telling the story.
I found fixing things for him was the easiest way to get praise from him. He wanted me to be a lawyer, I ended up an electrician. When I told him the story he sat there with such a look on his face I knew he was thinking, "I screwed up!" But he always bragged about my skills until the day he died.
was about 8 or 9
I am so thoroughly impressed ! I was an idiot about electricity until I was about thirty years old. I figured a person had to be born knowing it and that I had missed that blessing entirely. To pursue my career I saw that I had to learn it. I finally made myself sit down ( for months on and off ) and learn once and for all, the basics of electricity and electronics. . I started with a 1940's physics book and some books from Radio Shack (hey don't knock it for good basics and cartoon characters to boot). Just what I needed. From the easily detached extra electrons of good conductors moving through magnetic fields to the uses for AC verses DC.
I found that if I scrunched up my face just so and pounded the words in with a mallet that I could just about understand them. I sure learned a lot.
Sounds like you were first in line.
I would have been scared that the phone lines were high enough voltage I would have turned into a human light bulb. I mean when one is that young how do you know ?
Great story !
thanks
PS: I just kind of snuck in to this thread from the "Recent Replies" button so I have not been following along. Yet. NICE PROJECT ! I didn't realize what I was missing.
Tinkering with "timbers"
FWIW, Juli, I, too, have contemplated making a solid wood entry door from time to time. I suspect that what has stopped me up to this point are the same things that are giving you pause. It seems to me that 8/4 S2S stock, commonly available from good sources, is barely sufficient, and the big entry-door router bit sets deserve a lot of "respect" (in terms of safety). I now have a PC 7518 3 1/4hp router in my router table, though, so I'm a little closer. (But, I still wonder if a large shaper might still be the better tool for the job.)
Many of the weight issues can be worked around by performing tasks on the parts, prior to assembly, rather than working on the assembled door.
For me, the biggest challenge is having a large enough assembly table that is perfectly flat. I just don't have enough room.
Good luck if you decide to tackle the project.
My biggest concern is wood movement
I was at Sawmill Creek. One of the members there linked me to what he called the "Shrinkolator". I knew wood movement would be an issue but I didn't realize how much variance there is in the different species for shrinking and swelling. My door would be behind a good quality storm door with double pane glass. That would reduce the effect of the elements, possibly a lot. But when it's 0 and 10% humidity outside and 70 and 25% humidity inside, there will be a lot of forces at work on the rails and stiles. I just don't know how much.
The panels I'm not so concerned about. I'm thinking of putting 1/4" insulation between them. I've done the math and I think that will work. It leaves me 3/16" on the edges of the panels. My panel bits can cut up to 5/8" deep. I'd take all but 1/16" of that. I need to see the profile on a piece of 3/4" thick stock before I know it will work.
I did some drawings using the photo of the door as my guide. Everything is not exact but it's pretty close. I know I can make it but how will it hold up to the elements?
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The shrinkage calculator is, indeed, an eye opener in terms of the differences between species. How the stock is cut also makes a big difference, with quarter-sawn being the most stable, of course.
Design-wise, I like to think in terms of "becoming the joint" with respect to the forces that will affect longevity. The rail tenons, for example, carry the weight of the door, and transfer those forces to the hinged stile. Longer tenons often provide greater strength. But, the shoulders also play a big role. In the design you are considering, multiple rail elements distribute the weight over multiple joints - a "good thing".
For an exterior door, expansion/contraction can be a combination of atmospheric moisture and water sitting on the sill that can be "wicked" into the end grain of the stiles. Your storm door should provide some protection against the latter, but won't eliminate it entirely. A good seal on the bottom edge is important. (I put up a store-bought door on the back porch of my previous house, but forgot to seal the bottom edge. The door lasted about a year.)
I'm not sure about the insulation between interior and exterior panels. You might discuss that idea with folks who make doors for a living.
HOW CAN I GET PAST SPAM FILTER????!!!
I just spent an hour with a detailed response and can't post it!
I am so done with this place - why do you sheep put up with this crap. Even with a change in leadership, Taunton can't put up a decent forum.
I'm outta here for good
Dave Sochar
Acorn Woodworks
Dave
The last time I had a long post stopped by spam filter I cut it in half and tried to post each part alone. One worked and one didn't. I took out a name in the one that didn't and then it got past the filter.
I feel your pain. (Now that BC is no longer president I can say that without cringing.) I have left for weeks at a time because of problems with Knots. I still find Knots the easiest to post pictures on when it works.
Sorry to see you go, I may be right behind you, Julimor can turn out the lights.
"Julimor can turn out the lights"
You guys always leave that stuff to us electricians! Next thing you'll be asking me to turn off the breakers too!
Chuckle
the "filter"
I fully understand your frustration, Dave. As I've mentioned in other posts about the issue, getting on the filter bypass list is the best work-around. Contact Gina Eide (user name geide) to get on the list. To do this, click on "Members" in the left-column menu, search for her name, then bring up her profile. That will allow you to send her a message with your request.
Sneaking Past The Filter?
Ralph - Thnaks for your sincere help. Quickly (since my previous, longer reply was rejected) - I will just write the all-powerful GEIDE to let her know I am outta here. I have no need for her special list.
One must vote with their feet if nothing else works.
julimoor - search the Knowledge base at Woodweb. Lurk all you want. Write me if you have specifics.
Dave Sochar
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