First post guys, I’ll try to be brief. After reading Doug Stowe’s article on designing boxes I had some questions and can’t ask him without paying I guess. So here goes.
I have made over 100 boxes and I seem to keep running into the same problems and no fixes. I have good equipment so that isn’t the problem. I think I am missing some techniques.
1. I cut the mortises by hand for the hinges and if they are not exact, too deep, or not exactly square, the lid is off alignment or sits high etc. Any tricks you guys know? Other than cutting with a router and template?
2. I have used raised panel tops and also just used 1/4″ thick lid sitting a groove. sometimes i think the top warps some because the lid will sit up off the carcass a little on one corner. Is it the top or the hinge alignment? typical box size is shoe box size or less, solid wood top.
3. So I glue up the box and then cut off the lid. I have cut them off with the bandsaw and also table saw. Bandsaw–I try to smooth the saw marks with a block plane but at the corners, the corners tear out or the corner sits lower? Tablesaw-cutting off the top, I do two sides, put in shims, cut the other two sides, but again corners don’t look good, it seems like the blade wobble a little and at the corners the lid and carcass are not flush and tight? I have decided it is easier to make larger projects or boxes without hinges? any help would be appreciated. Dave
Replies
Hi Dave ,
The hinge question may be more than one issue , the little tops can be twisted or racked , the box can be racked . The smallest amount of discrepancies will show . Some cheap hinges have play built in .
Sliding lids in a groove work well , the solid top can be whatever thickness you want and stays flat in the groove .
When I slice a top off a box like you made I cut an end then lay it down and cut a long side rotating it on each pass minimizes the kerf you see in the corners , also keep the TS blade just barely higher then the stock is when slicing tops.
Sometimes you may take a light pass off each to clean them up .
hope this helps a bit dusty
Here's one way around some of your issues:
View Image
Dunno if this type of top appeals to you, but it works well and pretty easy to fit. The tiger maple piece is actually thicker than the groove, with only the edges rabbetted to the groove thickness.
Edited 5/1/2008 5:14 pm ET by Samson
I have made several boxes with the different techniques. I too have found problems when mortising hinges and with the lids not fitting well. often I try to adjust the hinges in the mortise as well as I can. meaning in order to correct some of the lid misalignment I might redrill a hinge screw or two and this often helps. I plug the first hole with a toothpick and a dab of glue. I have also found it is important to allow ample space as to prevent hinge binding.
As another poster mentioned some hinges can be 'sprung' a little to allow a little more play. In the past I have also clamped the lid in position on the box and then drilled for hinges hoping it would help keep the lid in good alignment.
I don't know if it helps but on future boxes I plan to mortise the hinges into the lid and the box leaving only the knuckle or barrel exposed. I think this may help a little provided the peices are aligned well. Also a little more historically correct and I think a little more refined.
Webby
Welcome to Knots, woodchuckwood. How much wood could a woodchuck chuck.....?
I'm not familiar with the article you mentioned. I have built a few boxes. It's not unusual for a cut off top to spring or twist. When it happens badly you go to plan B. It's important that you keep the box tight to the fence throughout the finish of the cut. You need to position your clamps and fillers so that no pressure is exerted on the blade as the cut is made. I only raise the blade so it just cuts through the material thickness. On the last cut, you can lower the blade so it almost cuts through, just enough to make the final separation with a knife.
If you cut hinge gains with a chisel, you make a series of angled cuts close, 1/8"+-, to each other along the length of the mortice. You normally hold the chisel with the back up and cut in on the angle of the blade bevel. Each cut establishes the depth or very close. With practice, you will be able to drive the chisel to the required depth with a single tap. After that, the slashed cuts just break out and you pare to the finished depth.This can be done as a crosscut, not along with the grain. Come in from both sides by pushing in on your marked depth line.
A small router, like a laminate trimmer is helpful if you don't mind using power tools. You can cut the ends of the gain with a chisel and use the router to remove the bulk of the waste. I keep back from the final edge of the cut and just do it by hand and eye, no jig. I made a larger base plate on the trim router so it won't tip in on the cut. A 1/4" straight bit is easy to control, just don't leave a chunk in the middle as you rout. It can break off and jam, jerking the router out of your control.
You can also use a hand router plane to come to the final depth. It's best if the cut is already very close. When you cut with the grain, with a chisel, it often wants to dive in or ride up. That's why I only pare in from the side. If you go too deep, you can put a shim under the hinge leaf. This is also a trick to use so you can tweak a top or door that isn't lining up quite right.
Drilling for the screws is as challenging as anything. Even with tools like a vix bit and center punch, it's easy to be off just a whisker. I'll mark the center with an awl and drill slow, so the grain doesn't push the drill bit. There are times when you need to fill the hole with a "hens tooth" and start over.
One trick to use when testing out hinge alignment is to use some double sided tape on the hinge leaves. This way, you can check the fit without committing to screws.
Plan B would be to hide any problem. There are a number of ways. One might be to add a thin strip around the perimeter, bead it and have it stand proud or keep it in for a reveal, have it lip over, etc.. Use your imagination. It also helps if there is small raised liner that the lid slips over, typical in cigar boxes. In all cases, it helps to cut the hinges in on one piece, place the lid on and transfer the marks to the other piece. Box or lid first.
Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
For mortising in hinges I like use a layout/scoring knife and a mini router plane, powered by me, no electricity, no motor. That guy comes in handy for many tasks. "Butt" my next plane is going to be a small butt mortise plane by Lie-Nielsen. The extended bed fore and aft will make life even easier.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Thanks guys, sound like I have tried most of your tricks, I have tried the toothpick trick, vix bits, blade only as high as the thickness of the box and even less than that and trimmed the remaining. I use Brusso hinges instead of cheap hinges, and I have used plan B.
Sampson nice design. my shims might be the cause, they might not be the exact thickness of the kerf which might lead to my corners being a little off.
thinking back I might have only made 30-40 boxes but it sure seems like more with the hassle I have had. I will try to attach some pics. I have made some boxes with inserts in the end, those work but it requires two hands to open it. Have you guys used the slot hinges rockler and some others sell? Do you like them, do you have alignment problems with them?
I will check into the Lie Nielsen plane, so far I have only been able to afford the catalog.
I attached some pics, it's late so I didn't resize them, sorry if they cause issues since they are big files
Edited 5/1/2008 11:06 pm ET by woodchuckwood
here are the pics, i resized
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