Bosch 4410 Arrives – Questions
Hi Everyone,
Well, after waiting for a while, my Bosch 4410 SCMS finally arrived from Amazon. The box was badly beaten up. The tape holding the box together was basically gone and the box was just flapping almost open when I picked it up from the UPS facility. I’m surprised the contents remained in the box! Also, the foam inside was all broken up. The saw itself seems like it’s in good condition, but it was not wrapped as nicely as they usually are. It was just kind of sitting inside loose plastic wrap. Even more strange — there is absolutely no paperwork with the tool. No manual, no product information, no warranty card, nothing.
I just put the saw on the workbench, and I haven’t been able to use it yet. But something seems odd here. Has anyone else had this experience?
Replies
Matthew, boy I hate to say this but.......you should not have accepted the package.
So, what do you do now? Well, I doubt seriously you'd get any satisfaction if you went to UPS, so I'd suggest you call (not e-mail) Bosch directly. Explain exactly what you received and ask if they could please, kindly, send you the missing items. Be sure they understand that you realize this was UPS's fault, and not Bosch, but that you're hoping they can help since you've already accepted the package.
My Bosch CMS came with only a large owner's manual, so paperwork-wise that's probably what you're missing. I don't recall there being a warranty card (those are just marketing surveys anyway). I'd be more concerned that all the little parts were received. You can go to the following page to get an on-line parts manual:
http://www.boschtools.com/Service/Parts+Diagram/Parts+Diagram.htm
Or owner's manual (probably a big file):
http://www.boschtools.com/Service/Owners+Manual/Owners+Manual.htm
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Forestgirl,
I have all the luck! You're probably right that I should not have accepted the package. I guess what I was thinking is that Bosch packs things really well and it should be OK.
Like I said, the saw itself looks fine. But I guess I'm suspicious that the package was opened or something during transit, or worse, that this is not a new tool. I know it sounds weird, but that's the feeling I get about this.
As far as downloading a product manual, the Bosch site seems to crash my Acrobat reader every time I try to get the file. I've tried it on two different computers now, with the same result, or lack of results. I get a message that says, "Adobe Reader 6.0 has encountered a problem and needs to close. We are sorry for the inconvenience."
Everything has to turn into a project!!
Sorry you're having problems with the download. Only thing I can think of to try is to Right Click and select Save Target As, see if it works that way.
You gonna call Bosch? I can look for the phone# when I get home if you'd like.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
The condition of the packaging and the lack of paperwork argues that the saw was purchased and then returned. However, if this was the case the saw should have been sent back to Bosch, inspected etc. and repackaged as "reconditioned" (and sold as such). Any and all returns -- for whatever reason -- are supposed to be handled this way.
If there is the least little thing wrong with the saw, I would argue for returning it to Amazon -- hassle though it may be. Or, they might be amenable to selling the saw for the reconditioned price.
good luck ............
I had a similar problem with Acrobat recently. Turned out that my document was created with a later version of Acrobat, and a (free online) update of my Acrobat reader resolved the problem.
I think 6.0 is the most current version. Maybe his copy is corrupt?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Guess he should uninstall and download again?
Well, I guess my Acrobat problem is moot now! I sent the saw back to Amazon.
The Bosch manual crashed my computer at home and at work, if I used the download function. But if I used the right-mouse-click method, with "save as," I could get the file.
I have had mixed results from Amazon Tool Service. Of the 3-4 things I have purchased from them only one was actually shipped without error.
One had the wrong part; one was knocked around and stuff was missing, like this poster; and another was just defective.
I think Tool Crib just "drop ships" their tools, e.g., you order from Amazon, but the stock comes from Tool Crib.
I would order from them again, but certainly nothing bid, and nothing I was in a hurry to get, because its likely to be returned.
Regards,
Boris
"Sir, I may be drunk, but you're crazy, and I'll be sober tomorrow" -- WC Fields, "Its a Gift" 1934
Boris,
Yes, I've come to the same conclusion.
In the past, I have ordered books and music from Amazon with great success (I'm a classical music fan, and Amazon has some recordings that are extremely difficult to find). I've also bought smaller items, like saw blades and accessories. But this was my first major tool purchase, and it was not good.
I'm glad I didn't order a Unisaw from them!! Imagine having to ship that monster back?
Hmmmm, weird. What are the specs on your home computer (RAM, video mem, etc.)?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Send Amazon an email, they should be able to replace it. I went through 4 Dewalt DW735's in January from them, each arriving in worse condition than the previous. I ended up buying locally. Fortunately Amazon was understanding about the situation. I don't know what was going on with UPS around that time, but almost every package I received had been pretty well beaten up. They even destroyed a Festool multi-function table that was double packaged.
The first thing you want to do is call Amazon and let them know about the problem. They need to know that there is a problem somewhere so they can correct it. The fact about refusing to accept it is long past now but something you'll remember in the future I'm sure. Amazon is the shipper and you are the reciever so if there is a problem it is Amazons responsibility to make things right. They should have insurance to cover shipping problems such as this. In any case it is not Bosch's fault so if they seem reluctant to help, which would be rare, you couldn't really blame them.
In any case, unless you are personnally engaged in the shipping business, as a consumer, you are not responsible for knowing your rights to refusal of damaged goods. To make my point, my neighbor often signs for things I recieve when I'm not home. Neither of us are responsible to ensure that the package was inspected prior to signing and the UPS driver sure as heck didn't stop anybody and ask if we knew our rights when we signed.
So, if for some reason you decide you've been had, pack it up as best as you can, stop payment on the check or credit account and send it back to Amazon. Do not release the hold on payment until Amazon ships and you are satisfied with the replacement.
Sincerely;
The Tool Guy
Let me say -- once again -- it sure is great having a knowledge tool seller around here.
Tool Guy,
Thanks for your input. I appreciate it. Actually, in looking over the tool, I'm finding some other evidence of problems. I just have a bad feeling about this whole thing, and I think I need to have Amazon take it back and try again!
Thanks so much for your help.
In retrospect, and given that you're finding some other problems, I fully agree with ToolGuy. From what I've heard about Amazon, you're sure to get satisfaction from them. Let us know how it turns out!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I already put in a request to return the tool. Amazon is pretty easy about this. I just filled out an online form describing the problem and I received a UPS mailing label for its return, at Amazon's expense. It will be a job securing the box again for its return!
Ahhhhhhh, you're talkin' to a gal who's had lots of packing experience. I'll share one of my secrets: Appliance stores have really heavy-duty corner reinforcers that come in their boxes. I have found them invaluable when shipping tools.
Shhhhhhh, don't tell anyone. Ha Ha.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Funny thing, when I brought it to the UPS Store, the clerk kind of walked around the box looking worried, like he didn't think it was good enough to ship. Then he said the box "looks pretty raggedy" and that he would have to do some work to fix it up.
I laughed.
Well, now it's UPS's problem getting it back to Amazon.
I now see greater value in buying my tools hands-on, even if it costs a little more to do it.
In a situation such as this is Amazon willing to pay the return shipping costs?
Nikkiwood,
Amazon pays the shipping because of the way the saw was packaged and the shape of the saw when I opened it up, and the fact that it did not have a manual with it. They said that, because of all these things, it was their responsibility, so they will pay for shipping.
What we call "irony" right? ROFL!
I like to buy "hands on" when I can, but if the best machine is on-line (the Bosch) or catalog-only (e.g., Grizzly), or the price difference is exceptional (the Bosch again), I'll go for it. So far so good.
So.....is Amazon sending you another saw, or will you do something different? I forget :-)forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Yes, this is an ironic situation. I can laugh now that I have the thing shipped back off to them. But let me tell you, it is no fun unpacking an item like this, then having to pack it all back up and lug it back to UPS.
I'd like to get the Bosch again, but I think I'm going to hold off right now.
Matthew, any lessons learned from all this?Sincerely;
The Tool Guy
Tool Guy,
Well, yes, I did learn a thing or two. The first thing is, I will really try to avoid buying large tools through mail order in the future.
The problem is, often times the tool I want is hard to find. Take the Bosch 4410, for example. Only one tool seller near me had it in stock (Coastal Tools), and they told me it would be a couple of weeks to get it. Of course, after my order was confirmed, Amazon told me it would be two weeks for them as well! But when I placed the order, Amazon had it posted that it "usually ships in 24-48 hours." I didn't make a big deal about this, but I wasn't too happy.
The other problem is, Amazon's price is often so much better. No tax, no shipping, and a lower price to start with.
But in the future I will try as much as possible to buy my tools "live" in a brick-and-mortar store.
Matthew, I fully understand the money crunch aspect and the fact that sometimes things are hard to get. I have yet to find a deal so good that I would feel more comfortable buying it off the internet than locally. One thing that might interest you is that Distributors often borrow from their customers. If Amazon has a surplus of widgets and local retailer has none but needs 20 then the distributor might just borrow 20 from Amazon to keep his local guy in business. If the local little guy and the giant Amazon are both out then the only choice is to wait which is something that your local guy can tell you with one simple phone call. Amazon will tell you the same thing if you go to the hassle of questioning their ability to produce products. Your local guy will just tell you straight up.
You should know that I have bought off the internet twice, didn't feel comfortable about it and got burned. Both items, a Bosch 12" CMS and a Bostich Compressor/nailer kit were later found to have been factory refurbs and worked well for a while but failed soon after the warranties expired. I paid less than top dollar for both but more than I should have for a refurb. So yes, I learned my lesson the hard way too.
Have a great week
Sincerely;
The Tool Guy
Edited 7/27/2004 11:16 pm ET by Tool Guy
Tool Guy,
I agree. When I went to Coastal Tools, they had a Bosch SCMS on display, which is nice. I could check out all the features. I would have bought it that day, except they said it will take two weeks to get one. But you are right -- they were up front with me about it.
At Amazon, I was told it would be delivered in 24-48 hours. But then, after I purchased the item, I was told it would be two weeks!
The difference in price between Amazon and Coastal Tools was about $50. Amazon definitely had the better price. But now, of course, I can definitely say that saving those $50 was not worth it!
In the past, when I have bought tools from Coastal, they have all been great. Also, I can inspect the packaging and the tool itself before I take it home. And if there is a problem, I can take it back there and get an exchange right away, instead of dealing with UPS and a lag time.
Just some more details of my lesson learned!
Tool Guy,
Well, I guess I just found one exception to my new rule!
I needed a new drill press, and I have always wanted to give Grizzly a try. So yesterday, I ordered Grizzly's G7943 drill press. There is no other way for me, in Massachusetts, to get a Grizzly except mail order.
But from now on, any tools that can be purchased at brick-and-mortar stores will not be bought online.
Edited 7/30/2004 10:17 am ET by Matthew Schenker
Matthew, I for one appreciate your loyalty to local merchants. I was just drooling over the grizzly catalog I got in the mail the other day. I don't blame you in this case, it's the only way to get them. In this case though, the situation is different. You are buying direct from the manufacturer and there is no local availability so nobody got hurt and you have the highest possible chance of success.
BTW I have my eye on one of their giant metal lathes. Metal working intrigues the heck out of me and I'm just iching to try my hand at it. I already weld gas, stick, mig and tig and can fancy up some pretty neat stuff. The thought of turning a 100lb block of steel into a #8 wood screw just seems like something I could do quite easily. LOL
Sincerely;
The Tool Guy
"The thought of turning a 100lb block of steel into a #8 wood screw. . . " Tooooooo funny!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Tool Guy,
Well, the Grizzly drill press is scheduled to arrive this morning, and I am really looking forward to using it!
I'll file a little report when I know more about it.
Thanks again for yor input.
Hi
What I find very effective is to take digital pictures of the package and e-mail them to sender. That is unless you have rejected the shipment in the first place. Consolidaters are using large conainers and loading them to the hilt, usually the heavy stuff on top of course.
Cheers
Mac
Keep it stupid simple!
I hope you don't hold it against Bosch for these problems! Really sorry you had such a nightmare on your hands, and can understand about the pain of repacking. I've sold a few pieces of cast iron over the years, and packing them was definitely not a picnic!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Forestgirl,
I have bought a few Bosch tools, and I always like them. I have owned Bosch sanders, a jigsaw, and a 10" SCMS that I used for about five years. In fact, the reason I was buying the 4410 is because I had such a great experience with the earlier 10" slider from Bosch.
So, no, I don't hold it against Bosch.
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