Replies

1. 
   jackplane | Jul 12, 2004 07:34pm | #1

   Is this a trick question?

   Crap tools = crap performance. That goes for routers and bits.

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Jul 12, 2004 07:50pm | #2

   OK,

     Can you recommend a formidable router and suggested horsepower to purchase and a specific brand of router bit that will last? Regards,

   Buzzsaw

1. 
   DB | Jul 12, 2004 09:11pm | #3

   Buzzsaw, I'm admittedly a novice here but I've been using my router set heavily and have not had the troubles you have mentioned.  I'm using "Hickory" brand bits w/ 1/4" shanks from a starter set I purchased (at least they are carbide tipped).  Will be getting a core set of commonly-used 1/2" shank bits soon but it hasn't been an issue.  After researching heavily, I settled upon the Porter Cable 693VK kit, which is 1 3/4 HP, variable speed fixed and plunge base.  Got it on sale for $180.  Shortly thereafter, PC came out with the 800 series and I would buy those instead for probably only $40 or 50 more (especially since they have above-the-table adjustment capability).  If funds were more limited, I've seen the DeWalt 621 plunge router on sale quite a bit lately and it is a very highly regarded router.  I also found the website http://www.patwarner.com and Pat himself very helpful. 

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Jul 12, 2004 10:00pm | #5

   Thanks for the info.  I think I have to invest in a 'real' router.  With this "intro" router at least I learned how it works and how to use it.  Now it makes sense to spend the money for a good one.  What did you do about a router table?  Did you make one or buy one?Regards,

   Buzzsaw

1. 
   DB | Jul 12, 2004 11:56pm | #8

   Buzzsaw - I use the accessory table on my table saw (BT3100).  It works OK - not as good as a dedicated router table but I have been able to produce some good work with it.  Eventually I'll get something better but it does the job fine right now - so many tools to buy with limited funds. 

   You might check out Bladesnbits.com.  I've heard very good things about their bits for the $.  If I were to do it over again, I never would have bought the kit I got at HD but hindsight is always 20/20.  However, the "big box" bits that I own so far have actually done a very nice job - I just don't expect them to last very long.

2. 
   jackplane | Jul 12, 2004 09:41pm | #4

   Porter Cable 1 1/2 hp D-handle is my all around fave. Hitachi, Makita are also very good. For bits, use carbide tipped. CMT, Amana,Freud are very good. MLCS can be a bargain if you know what you want.

     Stay away from Sears,Ryobi and all other "bargains".

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Jul 12, 2004 10:02pm | #6

   Jackplane,

    Can you elaborate on what MLCS is? I know it as Major League Championship Series... Thanks. Regards,

   Buzzsaw

1. 
   jackplane | Jul 12, 2004 10:23pm | #7

   They are a manufacturer of router bits and accessories. I see you're already aiming a little on the thrifty side. Try any woodworking catalog; steer clear of the big box stores if you want to do quality woodwork.

   Edited 7/12/2004 4:24 pm ET by JACKPLANE

2. 
   MatthewSchenker | Jul 13, 2004 12:03am | #9

   Buzzsaw,

   Your post really contains two questions: (1) which router to buy, and (2) which router bit. You also allude to a third question -- which router table to buy, but let's stick with the first two for now.

   THE ROUTER:

   Your Ryobi router probably is not harming the bits, but the Ryobi routers are limited in power, longevity, and their accuracy. Because of this, any bit you use in that router may appear worse than it is. If, on top of this, you are using crappy bits, you really don't stand a chance!

   In the last five years, I have gone through all the stages of routers, starting off with a cheap one from Sears, then on to some other brands before I started hitting the good ones.

   One thing you should consider is getting one router to mount in the router table, and another router to use freehand. For your table-mounted router, you will want a fixed-base model. For freehand work, you will probably want a plunge router. (Also, while we're on the subject, don't even bother with those cheap router tables you see at Home Depot. But like I said, this is another subject, which we can get into later on if you want).

   I have found that Bosch, Makita, and DeWalt all make good routers. But right now I have a 3.25-HP Porter+Cable router in my table that is absolutely wonderful. It is powerful and accurate. I also have a Festool router to use for freehand work, but a Bosch or DeWalt would also be great for this purpose.

   ROUTER BITS:

   As far as router bits are concerned, I went through a learning curve on this as well. I started off buying bits from Sears, then from some other places like Lowe's, etc. I soon learned that the best bits are Freud, Amana, and Whiteside. Home Depot actually sells a good brand of router bit called Oldham Viper. They are yellow. I tell you this because most of what you see at Home Depot is garbage, but this is one exception.

   But for the money and quality, and for best selection, I like MLCS the best. All of their bits are mail-order, but they have free shipping.

   As far as quality goes, I would rank the bits this way:

   1. Whiteside

   2. MLCS / Oldham Viper

   3. Freud / Amana

   Here is MLCS Web site:

   http://www.mlcswoodworking.com/

3. 
   hammer1 | Jul 13, 2004 04:44am | #10

   Buzzsaw, I have a collection of router bits that goes back 30 yrs. They include many different manufacturers. The only bits that were basically useless were non-carbide and some of the really cheep Sears sets in 1/4" shank from the 70's. Taking a full depth one pass cut will challenge the best of bits and routers. Mutiple passes on all but the shallowest cuts will greatly improve the end result. I do recommend 1/2" shank bits over 1/4". A little forethought on the grain direction so you can cut with, not against the grain also helps when possible. Tearout is usually a sign of either going too deep or against the grain. Burning and or burnishing are more indicators of dullness.

4. 
   nikkiwood | Jul 13, 2004 05:17am | #11

   Asking for recommendations on the "best" router (and router bits) around here is a little like asking what type of person should I pick for my life-long mate.

   Everybody has their own favorites.

   So here's my take. PC and Bosch are at the top of the heap. You can safely pick any model from either line -- depending on the features you like.

   There are a gazillion people turning out router bits these days: those with the best reps include Amana, Whiteside, Bosch, CMT............... But beware, there are always people in these forums pushing bits as the "best" that none of the rest of us have ever heard of.

   Before I gave up on that poor old Ryobi, I would first try a quality bit. Even a cheap bit, however, should not produce tear-out the 2nd time you use it -- unless you ran 10000 linear feet through the bit the first time.

5. 
   SawdustSteve | Jul 13, 2004 05:21am | #12

   Lets see... I'm using a 30 year old Stanley router (unknown hp) and a 25 year old PC (3/4 hp) router with a home-made router table and a strange assortment of cheap and expensive carbide bits (both 1/4 and 1/2" shank diam's). Before cursing your tools, please check your technique. You imply that your bits are all new. Are you trying to take off too much wood in one pass?? Are you feeding the wood too fast into the router bit?? Are you working with pine, oak, ipe, ebony, or some really curly wood?? I'm not on my home computer so I don't have a list of sites that deal with routers. Can someone list a few for Buzzsaw to browse through?

   SawdustSteve

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Jul 13, 2004 02:37pm | #13

   Thanks for all of the information. My technique probably leaves a lot to be desired as I am probably trying to remove too much wood with one pass.  I am actually attending a router workshop this weekend at a local woodworking school and I'm sure the instructor will emphasize this point.  Hey, I'm a novice I admit it and experience is the best teacher.  Thanks again... Regards,

   Buzzsaw

6. 
   CajunDan | Jul 13, 2004 07:52pm | #14

   Buzzsaw,

   You didn't say whether your bits are carbide or steel. Taking too deep a cut can cause steel bits to overheat and ruin the temper very quickly (as in seconds).

   A good carbide bit will eliminate most of the problem, but you still want to limit the depth of cut to about 1/8 or less.

   Except for longevity, I have had good luck with Ryobi routers.

   Regards,

   Dan

1. 
   Buzzsaw | Jul 13, 2004 09:16pm | #15

   Thanks Dan,

     I'm sure it is my technique but I still want to purchase a plunge router for mortising, etc.  I appreciate your input.Regards,

   Buzzsaw

7. 
   SawdustSteve | Jul 14, 2004 05:48am | #16

   Buzzsaw..... I found the reference for you.

   Go to http://www.patwarner.com and start some serious reading.

   I guess the 'usual gang of fine splintermakers' are off for vacation (stealing lumber from each other) and are too busy to reply. There are other sites, but Pat's is, in my oppinion, the best of them all.

   SawdustSteve