have been woodworking for about 6 years. Never turned. Someone just gave me a lathe, so I figure I will mess around with it. Can someone tell me what kind of chisels and or gouges are good to start off with.
Thank you in advance for any information
Michael Burton
Replies
Michael, try the 6 piece set that Sears sells. They are high speed steel and good beginners tools. You can spend a fortune on turning tools. The Sears set is enough to see if you want to pursue turning without breaking the bank.
Also, consider visiting one of the local chapters of the AAW. You can find a list on their web site.
http://www.woodturner.org/
Steve
I second the sears set. I purchased mine when I started turning and they have held up well and are great to learn with. If your interest continues you will add to this set.
Amen on the Sears tools. That's what I started with and they worked fine. I now have a wide range of tools, some I picked up for around $2 a tool and replaced the handels. Some dealers pick up used equipment and sometimes you can find some great buys on used hand tools. Takes some time bringing them back into shape, but thats part of the fun.
Take a look at Penn States tools, decent but not pricey. You also need to think about what size things you want to turn since you can get tools in "regular, small, and mini" so to speak. If you are thinking about makes pens and pencils then you need smaller tools, as an example
I don't know about MIchael, but I think I'm in the same boat, i.e. have never turned either. I've got an old Dunlap lathe without a motor that I'd like to get going and give it a go. I don't even know where the best place to start is, I'm assuming small to medium in terms of pieces.
First off, I'd like to turn some handles for a bunch of files/rasps/chisels that I've accumulated; maybe some knobs for some old planes that I've acquired as well. Can you explain a little more about sizes of chisels with respect to the kinds of pieces that you want to make.
Also, should I mill my starter pieces into octagons to make it easier to start, or are square rectangular pieces OK? I'm thinking the KISS principal (Keep It Simple Stupid).
Best Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
Kidderville, NH
Use whatever tool needed to Git 'r Done!
Standard size turning tools will do the knobs and handles you want to make. I used to ease the edges with a plane before I mounted them on a lathe, but no longer. It is not worth the time it takes. A sharp roughing gouge will get a square round fast. Check out your library and see if they ahve any turning books. It will help you understand what tool is used for what and several safety considerations - eye protection for one
Many of the tools needed, can be made from old files. The shapes of the points determine the result obtained :
A triangular file (3 corner)
When some of the teeth are removed and the V shaped point sharpened and under-cut, will produce V shaped details. The same file sharpened to a half round, will produce uniform radiused grooves. A reverse U shape will create 'beading' (Good for gripping handles)
A gouge is the most versatile lathe tool. (It pares not scrapes) With it, rapid smooth wood removal is obtained ' A parting tool is used to slice off the two ends after the body of the turning is finished and sanded.
It can be ground from a flat file that has sides that taper across the flats (knife file)can make a parting tool) Make the handles from old shovel handles at least 7 to 8" long.
A Skew cutter can be shaped from a flat file, but. (like the gouge,) 'tis wiser to buy it. You'll need a driving or 'spur' headstock center and a tailstock center (A 'Live' tailstock center (Ballbearing) cost's more. but is well worth the price. As you get the "hang of it," Buy the tools you want to be "keepers"Look at a 'store bought' set to copy down the shape of the cutting edges A square shaped blank can be turned, but 'tis easier if roughly chamfered on four sides first
Use reasonable speed when turning fat stuff as it reduces in diameter, up the speed . Rasps and rat tail files can be used as is. sanding strips and sandpaper is used for final smoothing.Good luck, Steinmetz.Edited 12/26/2006 11:13 pm ET by Steinmetz
Edited 12/26/2006 11:16 pm ET by Steinmetz
Steinmetz,
While files can make adequate scrapers, I'd be leery of recommending them to a novice turner. File steel is very brittle (unless retempered), and stands a chance of shattering if used as a cutting tool, and a grab or catch, occurs. I wouldn't use file steel to make a gouge, or a skew chisel. A planer or jointer knife would be a far better choice, in my opinion.
As long as you are scraping, with the tip of the tool angled down, there's very little likelihood of a catch. That's why many novice turners scrape, and never learn to cut... It is a revelation to watch a good turner at work, with the air filled with shavings around his head and shoulders.
Ray Pine
Ray, I only suggested file material for use at slower speed appropriate for torning small handles. After he feels more skillful, and reads up on safety rules, (And takes your advice,) I'm sure he'll follow up buying first class tools. Steinmetz.
mtburton and Bob ,
The brand you use will not be as important as the type you use , by that I mean imo scraper type tools as opposed to gouges and such will be more forgiving and do a great job for beginners as well as experienced turners.
you can easily make your own tools from tool steel or even lathe machine cutters from a machine shop a few basic shapes will do most profiles , make wooden handles and use them .
happy turning dusty
Edited 12/22/2006 11:46 pm ET by oldusty
Thanks Dusty that is kind of what I meant. Is there a particular type (not brand) of scraper, or scrapers I should look for? I will initially be doing things like spindles and pens. Nothing major.
mtburton,
The shape of the scrapers is what is important . A basic round nose , a chisel or square shape in several sizes is handy as well as one that may be pointed on one end then curving off . I re - ground what's called a parting tool with slight curves on each side to aid in making bead and ball shapes and such .
With just a few basic shapes most any turning can be accomplished
dusty
I would start my turning experience by reading one of the "basic" books by E. Conover,R. Raffin or M. Darlow. Understanding the basics and the principles of lathe safety are of utmost importance. Things happen very quickly on a lathe and those mishaps could "turn" you off to turning. If you start out right by being informed of what to expect you'll take it in stride and continue turning as you'll realize what you did wrong, Mistakes can hurt but also teach.. READ READ READ. As to scrapers, they have their place ! I'am not a big fan of scrapers. I would start with a roughing gouge and learn to ride the bevel once the blank is round. Start with some "Green" 6" Dia. logs 18"-24" long and make lots of shavings. Then graduate to other chisels.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
Edited 12/24/2006 9:24 pm ET by BruceS
I had a set similar to the Crown 5 Piece Full Size Turning Set that Rockler sells. I was able to do just about everything that I wanted to do with them. I must add that I didnn't try bowls.
hello .DON'T BUY any scrapers until you get into turning the inside of boxes or bowls,when you start you will be turning between centres (spindles,toolhandles etc)and all of the timber will be side (across) grain so if you scrape it the timber will tear out. Basic gouges , parting tool and a skew chisel are all you need for the time being. Make shavings !!!! enjoy !!! dont bother with making the timber octaganal its much easier on the lathe, and as the edges reduce so the note rythem changes and you can hear when the timber is a cylinder (no click click ) I know lots of people who work wood but don,t enjoy woodturning, so give it a go before spending lots of moneyon gadgets etc.
regards Teabag
Hi teabags,
I will take a wild guess that you either do not own or have never used any scraper type tools for lathe work .
Just for clarification why do you say a scraper will tear out but a gouge won't ?
The reason I started to favor scrapers was because of the tear out from gouges .
dusty
If you know how to sharpen gouges and understand how to rub the bevel, you’ll put those scrapers back on the tool rack. I use them to work endgrain on boxes and maybe once in awhile on a platter or bowl with gnarly grain, but never on a spindle.
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As too tools to buy, stay away from a set, just like carving tools, only buy what you need when you need it.
Hi Napie ,
I guess what works best for one may be different than another .
So far in the last 35 years that I have used wood lathes I have found I can do the same tasks with scrapers as with gouges . In my own experience the gouges tend to be more aggressive and dig in and tear out more easily then a scraper . As you said you use scrapers in certain types of grain and such . Why not use a gouge on that difficult grain ? I have had a few gouges fly through the air but have never lost a scraping tool so safety may be an influential reason for me to use scrapers .
Do you suppose gouge type cutters are used on duplicating spindle machines ? I would think they use the most efficient tool for the job .
regards dusty
The cutting geometry of a gouge is such that it will work for part of end grain work, depending on the bevel grind. I rough out boxes with a spindle gouge, (a la Richard Raffan), and then finish the flat surface off with a very heavy scraper. I find that the gouge leaves a surface that requires little sanding.
As to what a duplicator uses, that’s apples to oranges. Anything from a duplicator requires a lot of sanding and does not allow very crisp details. Large duplicate turning operations use a back knife lathe, that is more of a cutting operation versus scraping. As to efficiencies, pretty much every production hand turner I know of uses gouges and more often, that truly difficult to master tool, the skew far more than scrapers.
hello. yes I do own scrapers ,and use them .My advise was not to use them if he was 'turning between centre.' (as most people do when they start out turning) Its the same as planing across the grain with a hand plane,it tears out rather than cuts. Learning to cut using a spindle gouge correctly will stand him in good stead for the future. Most starter lathe kits come with head and tail centres not always with faceplates or chucks. regards Teabag.
some of your respondents have advised using scrapers. If you want to make tool handles, then you should learn cutting techniques. It's much more fun, although scarey in the beginning. Practice on scrap material, wear a face mask and expect to catch a few crabs.
I make tool handles mostly from old ball-bats, which are made of very high quality ash or hickory. They can be bought at yard sales for a dollar or 50 cents. You'd have to pay $8 or 10 for a rough bat blank. Ferrules (?) can be made from short pieces of copper pipe.
Tom
First of all, you don't need to try to make your own turning tools. There are so many great tools available you're aren't going to believe your eyes when you lay your hands on your first all-turning tool catalog. Once you have some experience, you may want to change the grind a bit, or a lot, but you sure as hell don't need to convert other tools into turning tools. As has already been pointed out, that can even be dangerous. You should be thankful for Rob's post.
I used a five-piece starter set from Marples until they were bleedin' nubs. The grind I put on each one evolved over time, but that's part of learning.
Files have two purposes ! 1. To file 2. To injure those who try to make lathe tools out of them. Unless you are very adept at annealing a file then regrinding it to a useful lathe tool and then retempering to the proper hardness Don't do it.
Work Safe, Count to 10 when your done for the day !!
Bruce S.
My inclination seems to be to get an inexpensive starter set. Not a big investment, then upgrade as need be. Are longer handles better. I watched a demonstration at a woodworking show and he suggested that longer handles allow him to leverage the tool against his body for stability.
I'm fortunate to have access to a gentleman who used turn spindles for Ethan Allen to help get me started and hopefully avoid any mishaps.
Thanks to everyone for all your suggestions, especially Michael for starting it in the first place. He actually beat me to the punch!
Regards,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
Kidderville, NH
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
Hi,
If you dont have one, buy a bench grinder. I don't think you can turn without being able to regularly sharpen your tools, and although I got along for years wothout a grinder anywhere near my planes and chisels, it was essential for the turning tools.
My tools are all HSS, so the inexpensive high speed grinder with the grey wheels works fine. You do need to keep the wheels clean and true.
dave
Hi Dave,
I have a bench grinder, actually two. I'm thinking of outfitting one with a coarse and fine grinding wheel. On the other one, I'll probably mount 2 buffing wheels for polishing, not sure yet. I do realize that I'll need these to keep things sharp. I'm progressing down the slippery hand tool road faster each day.
It's down right fun using hand tools, the quiet is theraputic and the workout is great. At 60 one must keep in shape.
I actually brought the Grundig out to the woodshop to listen to music, something I've never done in 26 years of woodworking! Maybe it's because I couldn't hear it above the roar of my power tools. Now I'm looking forward to using both.
In the way of turning chisels, would recommend a starter set or just essentials, i.e. 3/4" roughing gouge, straight/skew chisel or scraper and perhaps a parting chisel to start out with? I've read that a skew is difficult to master...........
Any thoughts here on the above?
Thanks for your help,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
Kidderville, NH
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I was taught to grind by fitters - the only tools they used for tool sharpening/shaping were high speed grey wheels with a water can next to them.
This was highly instructive, drills are sharpened with an action like pitching hay and the relief is demonsrated with a small washer placed on top of the drill. I am the wrong person to ask because I have never had access to a slow wheel except the had cranked ones. They are fine for chisels, but I need two hand for turning gouges.
I do think it is worth developing the skills for free hand grinding. If you look at some tools used by professionals (I think Raffan is an example) you will find a different bevel angle deliberately on eac side of the tool. This allows them to rotate the tool as they move across a curve and retain an opimal attack angle as they go. Pretty refined stuff.
I recived my lathe as a 40th birthday present. My partents supplemented the lathe with a set of three heavy high quality HSS gouges that filled all of my needs for about 12 months. These were a roughing gouge, a spindle gouge, and a skew. The first supplementary tool bought was a bowl gouge, and I made two scapers from HSS bought from a machine shop suppliers. These are 1/4*3/4 bars groud to a square end and an asymetric curve and set in home made handles. HSS at this size is cheap and safe for tools.
Skew chisels are like dovetails. too much mystique for me to take it all seriously so I just did it and worked past the mistakes. I have a couple of I ssues I would like to resolve still, but... Raffan has a very good book of turning projects that start simple and work up. He explains the mechanics of why things happen very well, and you finish up with some nice round things.
The key is to accept that you will probably throw out more than half of you early efforts. But, and this is important, you should be able to find or scrounge a significant portion of the wood - so throw aways are not important.
I'm not a good turner, but it is fun. Hope this helps.
Dave
That's what I have, just plain vanilla bench grinders with grey wheels. It is not slow speed. Sorry if I implied otherwise. Your post is most informative and I appreciate your help.
I'll follow in your footsteps as to sharpening with these and get the same types of chisels that you started with. That way I can always blame you when things go wrong :) :) :).
It'll be a while B4 I get to start as I've got several projects that I'm behind on, one being an entertainment cabinet for the boss! Also, I need to get a motor for the lathe, some chisels and make some jigs/rests for the grinders. Being in northern NH limits my resources somewhat.
Thanks for your help,
Bob @ Kidderville Acres
Kidderville, NH
A Woodworkers mind should be the sharpest tool in the shop!
I would recommend the 8" from woodcraft. It comes with white wheels and is a slow speed - something like 1700 rpm. This is what I have and it works great for sharpening.
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