I have been trying to edge joint some 6/4 Cherry stock so I can glue them up for a desk top. However every time I joint them no matter how much I concentrate on what I’m doing I keep ending up with a middle that touches before the ends can come together.
What is that that I’m doing wrong?
Thanks in advance, John.
Replies
are you putting weight downward toward the table or are you putting the pressure against the fence?
it might take a couple of passes but you should be able to get that belly out of there by concentrating the pressure against the fence.
I have been trying to keep preaseure both against the fence and onto the outfeed table once the peice has passed the cutter head. Is this not the correct way to edge joint?
John.
Stephenson. make sure you have the concave side down against the table not the convex. Jointing the convex side will remain in "belly mode" all the way to the end of the board.
If you are doing the right side of the board and getting the board to convex then your jointer need its tables realigned. There are lots of printed spec sheets on this and maybe you are ready to learn this new skill. You will become a "jointer" once you have this down. Good luck in your new job skill. aloha, mike
It's probably being caused by a slight misalignment in the infeed and outfeed tables in relation to each other and/or the cutter. If you're new at this, get a hold of some book or article that explains it thoroughly. I'm afraid it's too much for me to write here. The basic idea is that the 2 tables be absolutely parallel with each other, and the outfeed is at exactly the height of the cutter, while the infeed is somewhat lower. Any slight inexactitude is immediately translated into less-than-perfect jointing. Once it is perfectly set up, there is also this question of how you put your weight on the board as it goes over the cutter. There is a point where you need to shift the pressure from infeed to outfeed side.
DR
John,
1) It could be that your outfeed table is just a tad too high. That will give you a tapered cut, translating to a belly in the middle of long stock. This will happen every time you joint a longer piece if the table is too high.
2) Are all of the edges you joint coming out this way, or just some? If the board's edge has a belly to begin with, it is easy to follow that curve on the jointer, esp if you concentrate the pressure on the outfeed table as you feed. I like to keep pressure over the middle of the board as it passes over the tables, transferring from infeed to outfeed as the middle of the board crosses the cutterhead.
You may want to finesse the joints by lowering the front end of the board onto the outfeed table, turning on the machine, then passing the stock across. This will joint out the belly by starting with a nothing cut that runs to the full depth of cut a couple feet in from the end of the board. Keeping pressure on the outfeed table from that point on should yield you a straight edge. I generally use about 1/16" depth of cut when jointing edges.
Good luck,
Ray Pine
I agree with Ring.
I had the same problem and it turned out the outfeed table was not "exactly" in line with the cutter at top dead center. (Actually, If you put a board on the outfeed table and rotate the cutter by hand (Unplug first!) the board should move about 1/2" or so.
Jerry
This is what I would suggest. Put the electric jointer to the side for the time being. Buy a handplane and learn to sharpen it, and then turn that board on its edge and joint it with the plane. You will be amazed at how fast this can be done.
Once you've done that, go back and use the electric jointer. I'll bet that what you learn by using the plane will go a long way to curing your problem with the machine.
What's happening is that instead of learning to work with wood, you're spending your time and energy learning about the machine. They are two very different things.
In addition to the advice above.......be sure and let the jointer do the work. I still have my frustrations with the jointer (mostly when face-jointing though) and have traced most of it back to the fact that I put too much force on the stock, overworking it as it were. Just something to keep in the back of your mind.
Oh, and be careful. Thanks.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Do unto others as you tell them they should do unto you....
Not sure, but maybe your jointer bed is too short and you can't get a straight cut on it. That's the problem I have when I want to joint a five foot long board on my dinky little 3 foot jointer. I end up with a gap in the middle of the board...Frustrating!!!
I lowered the outfeed bed just to the point that if I put a straight peice of wood on it and rotate the blades they will move it approx. 1/2". I tried it like this and still I have a high point in the center of my boards. Also this is happening on all the boards I have tried. Anything from my 7' sticks of 6/4 to some petite peices of 32" 1/4.
As far as putting the jointer away and using my hand planes thats a fine idea, but not the help I was looking for.
I don't think its the length of my jointer, combined the beds measure nearly 83".
Edited 2/2/2006 3:00 pm ET by Stephenson
"As far as putting the jointer away and using my hand planes thats a fine idea, but not the help I was looking for."
Well, that's interesting. Is your goal to learn to use the machine or to joint pieces of wood?
If you've already been successful jointing boards by hand and are now moving up to the machine approach, ignore all this. From the caption of your post I assumed this is not the case but forgive me if I'm wrong.
I'm advocating starting with the handplane not because it's "purer" or "better" in some aesthetic way, but because it teaches you information about the jointing process that you will not learn otherwise. This information then will translate into more successful use of the machines, if you ultimately choose that approach.
Here's a dumb analogy. Someone could theoretically never learn to add numbers by hand, but instead use a calculator from day one. I have a strong suspicion that such a person would lose something in his use of the calculator by not learning what we learn when adding by hand.
Given the frustration that is apparent from your posts, I don't think you'd lose anything by approaching the problem from a different direction. Again, your electric jointer or your jointer technique might be totally botched and in need of fixing, but I think it would still help to learn how to do the process by hand. It is extremely easy, much easier than using a machine, judging by the number of "jointer problem" posts in Knots.
The jointer is my least favorite tool in the shop because of the difficult set up involved. After 25 years of hand joining lumber I got the Grizzly 500 to help me make a 10 foot teak dining table.The factory set up worked well,I still needed to touch up the 10 foot boards with my plane though. Half way through the job the knifes were dulled by the teak and I had to install new ones. I was not able to get the jointer to work as good as before but luckily I knew how to use a jointer plane or I would not been able to finish the job.I believe in the future all jointers will have the insertable knife system so wood workers will not have to be part machinist to set up a jointer. Not being able to sharpen or use hand planes will hold you back in wood working and get very fustrating to the novice.
"Not being able to sharpen or use hand planes will hold you back in wood working and get very fustrating to the novice."
I have felt this way about other woodworking operations as well. I have struggled and struggled with jigs to cut tenons by machines and then realized on a later project "Hey, you can cut these things by hand!" I have stood there for half an hour with a random orbit sander evening out a gap between the carcass of a bookcase and the face frame, breathing in dust and losing feeling in my hands, then realized the same job can be accomplished in 90 seconds with a sharp plane.
When you step back and think about it, you realize that machines were invented for one purpose: the rapid construction of furniture in a production environment.
Most of us don't do our woodworking in that environment, yet we automatically focus on the machines anyway because we believe that if it's electric it must be more "modern" and therefore "better" or something like that. It'a real eye-opener for most amateur woodworkers (I am definitely amateur) to "discover" hand tools, as if they had disappeared from the earth.
People starting out assume that those of us who advocate hand tools for amateurs do so because we think its "purer" or more "honest" or some such nonsense. They start out with the tablesaw and the jointer and four routers and jig after jig. Then at some point, either from curiousity or necessity, they pick up a sharp plane and a big light comes on. "Oh! These darn things actually work!" That was certainly my trajectory.
How many of these threads do we see where people are pulling their hair out over jointers? There must be some industry plot to make woodworkers miserable with these things.
You're getting a lot of advice here, some good, some not so good. I agree with the posters who suggest that machine setup may be the culprit. You need a more accurate way to set the outfeed table. I'm going to guess for the moment that you're running a relatively new machine and the tables are ok relative to each other. If this is an oldie or has been disassembled, that's doable but more complicated.You need a straightedge. A real mechanics one is great, but for the current purpose, the ground edge of a quality square or ruler will do. You want to lay it flat on the outfeed table so no light shows through, overhanging the cutterhead. At the right height, the knives should just barely tick the straightedge when you spin the cutterhead. Check all knives and at several locations across the width of the table. This is low tech but good to .001 or so with a good straightedge. This will also tell you if the knives are even with each other and parallel to the table. If not, you'll need to adjust them.Once your knives are dead on, take light cuts and practice for a while. My jointer works great with the knives dead even, while some people find that having the knives a hair higher is better.Pete
Edited 2/2/2006 11:52 pm ET by PeteBradley
hhhhmmmm....is it possible your jointer knives are set too high??...they cut fine but once they get to the middle of the board they take off too much material...????
Lots of good ideas here. My last thoughts are:(a) Are you jointing with the concave side down? With the hump down it is easy to rock the board.(b) Perhaps you are running into the problem FG mentions; too much pressure. I watch a professional shop pass work over their 24" jointer. NO down pressure. Just "pass" the wood over the knives.Goodbye for 2 weeks.Jerry
I think your outfeed table is a bit high ,but also think along the lines of using a planer like a hand plane ,you wouldn,t start planing from the ends if the belly was in the middle. we have been able to shoot edges on 8 to 10 foot boards with a 20" jointer (hand plane)so you should be able to get a straight edge off a 3 foot table. Practice on some scrap wood and try altering the in and outfeed tables and seeing how it alters the straightness .Only make ONE...... adjustment before testing or you will never find the right answer. Go make shavings and practice .
Regards Teabag.
Not using a hand jointer!
Sorry, I couldn't resist,
dlb
.
Take a short, straight piece of wood, 1x4x16" +- and make a cut only about 3" or 4" into the piece. Shut off the jointer, turn the cutterhead so no knives show, pull back the guard and see if the cut portion of the board fits tightly to the outfeed table while the uncut portion remains tight to the infeed. You shouldn't be able to get the thinnest paper under the cut portion. You will likely have to adjust your outfeed table up.
Once the outfeed is in line with the cut the blades are making, check the blades to see if they are all the same height in relation to the outfeed table. An easy way to set them is with the blade from a combination square. Remove the blade from the square and place it balancing on edge with the number 8 even with the edge of the outfeed. Rotate the jointer head gently by hand. The jointer knife should just catch the blade and move it ahead 1/8". Check all blades, front, center and back. This will set the outfeed table just slightly lower than the TDC of the knives, which is what you want for a cut that comes out even with the table.
If you still have problems, you'll have to look at the tables being parallel. It sounds like your technique is correct. I think your outfeed is a little too low.
Thanks for al the good suggestions. I'll try the setup with the shorter board and make sure my peice is flush to the table. I seem to be getting differing ideas on the setup of the outfeed table. When I check it with a peice of wood or the rule from a combination square how far should it move? 1/8" or a 1/2"?
As far as checking that the beds are parallel do I just need a long straight edge and make sure no light shows through when placed on the beds? The jointer is the Powermatic PJ882, so its a paralelogram setup. This means no shimming right? There are adjustment bolts?
Thanks alot, I'll report back after todays tests.
When I check it with a peice of wood or the rule from a combination square how far should it move? 1/8" or a 1/2"?
I'm no seasoned jointer expert, but I did have a conversation similiar to yours here on Knots a few weeks back and learned a lot along the way. The main thing I learned is that while jointer manuals and other advice talks about making the blade tips EXACTLY level with the outfeed table, you often get better performance if the blades are slightly proud of the table top - hence the 1/8th inch and 1/2" movement advice. The amount of movement is not what I would focus on however becuase you need to set your particular jointer appropriately and learn what works best on yours. You want the outfeed table a little low, but how low will come from trial and error testing on your machine. Too low and snipe will be pronounced. Too high, and you will not get the nice straight level cuts you're looking for. Hope this helps - from one beginning jointer to another.
Anything based on the distance a pice of wood moves is likely to be inexact. Get it dead level, then *if needed* use the outfeed adjustment to vary the height in very small increments.You don't have to be half machinist to set knives. You really can get an accurate set with nothing more than a straightedge.If simple adjustments don't work, it would be good to describe the jointer in more detail, like what it is, how old, has it worked before, etc.Pete
After adjusting the outfeed table a little bit today I had better results. but was still not completley satisfied. So I pulled out my six foot level (I know I shouldn't trust this as a straight edge, but its the best I have on hand) and layed it across both beds with the infeed at zero. There was a slight gap in the outfeed table just after the cutters. Does this tell me anything? Also its a brand new machine to answer that question.
Sounds like you're getting closer! Given that this is a new machine and you didn't find the knives out of parallel, I'd continue experimenting with minor adjustments before changing anything else.The gap *may* indicate a problem. Rather than laying the straightedge across the tables, think of the straightedge being supported by one table and being compared against the other. Your level is a suspect too. You did flip it over and try this with both sides, right?There's a fairly complete article on jointer tuning at:http://www.owwm.com/FAQ/JointerTune.aspbut I recommend that you don't change anything else until you're absolutely certain there's another problem.Pete
With the blade from a combination square, it should move 1/8" and, it will do so to the whisker. With a piece of wood there are more variables. The piece has to be straight or flat, what size? and where do you put it? I put a couple of small pieces on my jointer and they moved about the same as the blade. I think 1/2" would set the table too low and that is, likely, your current problemTo check your table alignment, you can use a straight edge and a feeler gauge of some kind. The straight edge has to be long enough to have some good bearing on the outfeed table and extend the length of the infeed table. You can move the infeed table up or down to match the feeler gauge size and lock the table. Then it's just a matter of feeling under the straight edge, in different places, on the infeed table. It's not often that tables are out of line unless the machine has been tipped over or banged around. It only takes a few minutes to check them. If they need adjusting, refer to the manual and go easy.Beat it to fit / Paint it to match
John,
I think this may have been hinted at above, but if your outfeed is set to the right height at the cutter head as suggested (and it sounds from your test as if it is) I'm guessing either one, or both, of your tables are slightly higher at the far end than they are in the middle.
Picture what would happen if you raised both ends a couple inches, but left them just right at the cutterhead; you'd shave a big hunk off each end of the board as it entered and then left the cutterhead, but the middle would be untouched (same effect if just one table is higher at the far end). Sounds like you might need to shim the tables to make them coplanar.
There's a good book out on how to do this, maybe by Jim Tolpin, but I can't name it right now, I'm sure someone else here can.
Matt
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