Hi John, Jamie here. My Grizzly 1019Z is making a noise. Here are the details: The noise is not a howl, groan or growl, but a click, click click. It happens at the same spot every revolution. However, if I reverse the direction (all this turning by hand, mind you), the wheel goes past the “normal” spot and makes the noise about 1/6-turn further back.
If I turn the wheel kinda fast, it sounds like click-e-ty………click-e-ty. It sounds like it’s coming from the main shaft that the wheel is mounted on, not on the motor shaft. I’ve tightened the hub on the back side of the saw, and made sure the center nut isn’t loose. Also tightened up the motor belt a bit.
It does not make the noise if there is no blade. Here’s a copy of the parts diagram so you can see which shaft I’m referring to:
forestgirl — you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can’t take the forest out of the girl 😉
Replies
I suppose I should ask a question, eh?? Sorry. Is it likely that this is a bearing? Anything else jump to mind? I'm loathe to take the shaft out, assuming the bearings wont just pop out on their own. Not sure where to turn to get them taken out and checked.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi Jamie,
The description of the problem certainly suggests a bad bearing and the noise not occurring with the blade off reinforces the likelihood. The noise would disappear with the blade off because, without any pressure on the bearing, the balls would ride over the rough spot without being pulled into the damaged section of the race.
The only other possibility is a loose drive pulley that is shifting against the key. If you rotate the shaft by turning the lower wheel with one hand, with your other hand lightly against the pulley you should be able to feel the pulley shift as you pass the clicking point. Leave the drive belt on when making this test. It could also be a loose lower wheel but this is rare and I think you would have noticed it shifting slightly as you rotate over the spot where the clicking occurs.
You can try an experiment. The damaged part of the bearing is most likely on the top where the tension on the blade pulls the balls tightly against the outer race. If you remove the bolts holding the hub assembly and then rotate the hub 60 or 90 degrees and rebolt it, the bearing will probably make less noise because the damaged area won't be in the section where the load is the greatest.
From the parts diagram, it would appear that the bearings are mounted in the hub assembly which can be removed from the machine as a unit. Once it is out, any gas station could replace the bearings since the design of the hub is identical to the front wheel bearings on a car. With the hub assembly out of the machine you will probably be able to feel the roughness or sticking in the bearing as you turn the shaft.
You may have a problem removing the lower wheel from the shaft. If it is on too tightly to pull off by hand, you will have to use a gear pulling tool to get it off. You could also have the same problem with the drive pulley. If the wheel is stuck on the shaft do not hammer on it or attempt to pry it off, you'll only end up with a stuck bent wheel. You can buy a gear puller relatively cheaply from someplace like Harbor Freight.
Hope this helps. If you have additional questions, call me at the magazine, extension 3842. I'll be away on business from this evening through the weekend, but you could reach me today.
John
Thanks you, John. Having a couple of tests to do helps me feel somewhat competent! My step-son is a Grade A super-mechanic, and I'm sure he can pull the wheel for me if I can't figure it out. I'll try Shuck's auto supply for a gear puller and try it myself first, carefully.
I hope I can find a socket that will get the nut off of the bottom wheel. The nut is in a recess in the center of the wheel, and there's not much room between the outside of the nut and the inside wall of that recess. Is there a specific type of socket I should ask for? Is there such a thing as a "thin-walled" socket?? BTW, this nut got a little loose once -- could that have put stress on the bearing?? using it for awhile when it wasn't tight?
View Imageforestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Jamie,
They do make thin walled sockets but they are a specialty item. Typically they are hard to come by and more expensive. I would just buy a cheap regular socket and grind away the outside to fit, but you probably won't have to.
Running with a loose nut wouldn't strain the bearing, but it might have allowed the hub of the aluminum wheel to move around on the shaft with every revolution, causing the aluminum hub, and possibly also the steel shaft, to wear away over time. If this happened, the wheel would now be a loose fit on the shaft and the wheel might move around a bit and create the clicking noise you have been hearing. I originally suggested this was a rare possibility, but with this new information it seems a bit more likely. A failing bearing is still the more likely cause, and is much cheaper and simpler to fix, so hopefully that is the problem.
I wouldn't go out and buy a wheel puller until you have gotten the nut off and tried to pull the wheel off by hand. If the wheel comes off very easily because it is a loose sloppy fit on the shaft, then the hub and/or the shaft are worn because of the loose nut incident.
John W.
Thanks John. I'll hope for a bearing. I did take the wheel and try to rock it, like you would a car wheel, and it seems real solid.
Won't be able to work on it until tomorrow probably. Will report when I do! <g>forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Report! Hi John. I tried the "rotate the hub" test, no difference. No noise or movement in the drive pulley. So, pulled the wheel (easy -- stepson had the perfect socket). One thing I noticed is that the key is quite a bit shorter than the slot it fits in -- the slot is 4.5mm long and the key is 3.5mm. The key was pushed all the way to the back of the slot.
I don't feel anything really significant in the bearings, but will need a mechanic to get them out of there I think. Was pondering just replacing them since I've got them out. But was also thinking maybe I should get a key that's closer to the length of the slot. The way it was set in there. the back speed pulley was fully engaged with the key, but the wheel itself didn't have more than half (probably). Whaddya think?
When that nut came loose last year, I think I caught it pretty quick. The movement of the bottom wheel was making the blade mis-track and that got my attention really quick.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Hi Forestgirl,
Another quick question: There should be no play between the drive shaft and the hub of the lower wheel, in fact the fit is often tight enough that the wheel is hard to remove and needs a gear puller to get the wheel off. How tight was the fit of your saw's lower wheel on the shaft and is there any play at the wheels rim if you try to push it back and forth at the rim? Try the play at the rim with the nut holding the wheel off. Also is the key a tight fit in the slots of both the wheel hub and the shaft?
John
Hi John. Wellllllll, it isn't rock-solid. The lower wheel was pretty easy to pull off, and if I try and rock it at the rim with the nut off, it does move a bit. The key is not as snug to the wheel as it is to the slot in the shaft.
I have re-installed everything, but I slid the key closer to the front of the slot, and was able to tighten the nut well using the socket Braden loaned me. A test with a 3/8" blade, turning by hand, yielded no noise. Am going to put the 3/4" blade back on and try that one.
There were some mild wear marks on the mating surfaces of the pulley and the wheel, and also a wear mark on the nut side of the wheel hub, that I'm guessing are from when the nut was loose. These aren't much though.
Assuming everything goes well with the 3/4" blade, I'm most curious about what you think re: the short key. Would you try and find a key that's closer to the full link of the slot (and by def, the total slot length of the wheel and pulley)????forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Forest Girl,
The wheel should have had a full sized key so it certainly won't do any harm to fit one in now. You may find that you have to file the keystock down a bit to get it to fit in the slots, but this will insure a snug fit.
From your patient answers to all of my questions, I suspect that the clicking you are hearing is the movement of the wheel on the shaft. The wheel may not have been machined for a tight enough fit when the machine was new, a common problem with cheaper imports, and there was certainly some additional wear when the nut came loose. Once the wheel starts to rock, the bore and the shaft will continue to wear with each revolution of the wheel.
Loctite and GE both make what are called retaining compounds that you can put on the shaft and wheel bore to eliminate the play when you reinstall the wheel on the shaft. It wouldn't hurt to use a retaining compound since, if the wheel continues to rock even slightly, the wear will continue and the rocking will get worse with time until the wheel and shaft will need to be replaced. The compounds aren't cheap, $12.00 for a tiny tube but it would be a good investment.
If you want to try a cheaper solution, that will probably work just as well, coat the bore and the shaft with a thin film of metal repair epoxy before you put them together. Once reassembled, rotate the wheel and nudge it into a position where the rim runs true and then let the epoxy or retaining compound cure for 24 hours before running the machine.
Hope this helps, John
"The compounds aren't cheap, $12.00 for a tiny tube but it would be a good investment." Hah! Seems cheap to me, to prevent anything bad from happening. The wheel is real solid with the nut on. If I run it for a little bit and don't hear any noise, do you think it's still good idea to put the retaining compound on? I'm sure glad I didn't let it run long with the loose nut! Was using a very small blade at the time too, probably helped.
Once the retaining compound is on there, what's the procedure to take the wheel off if/when I need to (e.g., something goes wrong with a bearing)??
Thanks so much John, your well-described suggestions have been a great help!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Forest Girl,
If you mount the wheel with retaining compound or epoxy, you will probably need to use a wheel puller to remove the wheel in the future, but this isn't a big deal. If the wheel had been properly fitted to the shaft originally and/or not worn it would probably have required a puller to remove it anyway. If you are going to maintain your own machinery, having a wheel puller set is a basic part of the tools you will eventually need for some jobs.
Using epoxy or retaining compound is a good idea because any further wear may not be noticeable until more damage has been done.
John
Thanks, John, I'll put the wheel/gear puller on my shopping list. Hubby can pick one up at Harbor Freight the next time he's in Eastern WA.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Ooop, I found them! Noo response needed. Thanks. One last question: The key I have is like a square key, but rounded ends. Looking at McMaster-Carr, I'm dizzified by the number of keys. What type of key am I looking for?
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Edited 8/22/2006 12:44 pm by forestgirl
Forest Girl,
Buying a key by mail order is an expensive way to get such a small inexpensive item. Try a local hardware store if you have a real one. They may have keys already cut to length in various sizes or they will have 12" long lengths of key stock that you will have to cut to length. The size is anything that will fit, or the next nearest size that is a bit too large which you would then file down to a perfect fit. A dial caliper will make it easy to get the right size.
If the keyways in the shaft and the wheel are slightly different in width, because of sloppy machining or wear, you can even file the two sides of the key to two different widths to fit both slots properly.
The ends don't have to be rounded but they should have a slight bevel on them to prevent their gouging into the sides of the slot in the aluminum wheel.
John
Edited 8/22/2006 5:50 pm ET by JohnWW
Thanks, John. I tried Ace Hardware the other day, am going to check with the Jet/Delta/etc. dealer in the next town and see if he has any suggestions. I'll get something close. forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
FWIW, I've purchased keystock at the Borg...both HD and Lowes.
Thanks, Jim. I was at HD tonight, but got all enchanted in the Lighting aisle and didn't think about the keystock. This is a new store, and I hate to think the look I'll get when I ask for it. The learning curve seems to be a bit steep, LOL!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
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