Hi everyone,
I’m new to this forum (at least as a member) and look forward to participating in your discussions. Just thought I’d throw out an idea to get some reactions.
I used to be a sawyer and at the mill we had a fair sized dry kiln operation. (4 kilns which together handled about 150,000 b.f.) The operators were fastidious about kiln heat/moisture conditions almost to the point (we thought) of being ridiculous. Looking back, I can say that one saw twisting and warping of lumber on the very top rows, but not elsewhere.
I mention this in reaction to what we’re being sold for select and better lumber. Here, in the Upper Michigan/NE Wisconsin area we’re fortunate to have a lot of mills nearby so we get good prices, but I can’t say the quality of their product is what it should be.
Wood that is twisted, cupped, warped, cracked, is NOT select grade lumber – it’s #1 at best. I think we have to insist the mills and dealers start handling their materials correctly, and give us the product we are paying for.
Replies
jeff, I agree, but with the prices you are getting up there you're still better off than most.
I grew up in the northern lower mi. I was considering filling up a u-haul trailer and driving some lumber back out to ca. (where i now live) Can you recomend a good source near you and give me an idea of what stuff is going for up there. (walnut, hard maple, and cherry)
Thanks,
Jeremiah
Being from Michigan have you heard about the recent harvests in Lake Superior? Hugh old White Pine, Oak and Maple that sank in the lake during the loggin boom years ago is now being raised in excellent condition. I haven't seen any of it but I have read about what's being done. One story I read was about a guy I believe in Green Bay who had some 5/4 by 24" wide white pine boards milled for himself. That stuff is just not available any other way any more. Instrument makers are having bidding wars over the birds eye maple.
Don
Don,
I only know what I've read about and don't actually know of anybody that's selling the stuff. I'd be more than a little hesitant about actually using lumber salvaged out of the water.
During WWII lumber was nearly impossible to come by, so a lot of the small mill owners used to snag deadheads (logs which had broken away from the others on the "raft" and sunk in the river) and saw them into building lumber. After 30 or 40 years many of the folks whose homes had been made from this deadhead lumber found their houses falling apart due to dry rot.
Some years ago (late 1960's) they raised a schooner out of Green Bay and had it set up as a museum. It too eventually began to fall apart. Perhaps hardwoods react differently, but I'd sure stay away from the pine.
Jeff
Edited 8/25/2002 5:37:07 PM ET by Jeff
Jeff,
That's good to know. Everytime I read about this wood, or hear rumors of it, I think about tracking some down. I have read though that one of the novelties of this wood is in the conditions of Lake Superior. It is so cold and deep that the waters effects on the wood are different then shallow, warmer waters.
Thanks, Don
Don,
You're right about Lake Superior, it's cold waters prevent the growth of many micro-organisms that would enter the wood in warmer waters. I'm just not sure how much salvaged wood actually comes from there. My impression was that most of it is being taken out of Lake Michigan and Green Bay, which would make sense since most of the lumber to rebuild Chicago was sawn then shipped out of Menominee which is on the bay of Green Bay.
I imagine logs and lumber were transported across the other Lakes as well, but not in such a great abundance.
(Aside: My Grandfather's scrapbook has a picture and story about a White Pine floated out of Ontanogan - on Lake Superior - down to Menominee where it was sawn and yielded just over 12,000 bf!!! I can't even begin to imagine what those logs must have looked like.)
Jeff
Jeff,
While at Michigan Tech, I spent a semester at the Ford Froestry Center. It's Henry Ford's old saw mill and land from when cars had a lot wood in them. The walls of the Center are covered with pictures that are unbelievable.
There are a few virgin white pine still around. There not as tall as the big tress out west, but some have a dbh that's just as competitive. If you ever make it to Copper Harbor, look for the Estivant Pines.
Don
Don,
I've hiked back to the Estivant pines - just gorgeous. The Nature Conservancy has bought most of that land to preserve them from cutting.
Was up in the Porcupine Mountains a few weeks ago and that area is filled with virgin timber: a lot of hard maple and pine, but what really stands out is a large area of hemlock and yellow birch. They claim that at 300-400 years old, this is the oldest stand of those species in the U.S.
Standing among those giants sure makes one realize what small short-lived creatures we really are!
Jeff
Jeff,
Next time you head up that way, take 41 through Baraga and Lanse and stop at the center and take a look at the photo museum. It's always open except for the dormitorys when their in use. I remember one series of photos of railroad ties from they hey day of building the railroads. Stacks of ties, at least 2 stories high and 100 yards long. I can only guess at at least 100 of these stacks.
I've heard they have also restored the old water powered mill at the center and it's open for tours.
Don
The way I heard it was that wood salvaged from water can contain dormant fungii and when it brought up and starts to dryout an is exposed to air it blossoms and wrecks the wood. They've had this problem with salvaging historical ship wrecks but have learned various processes to preserve the wood.
An exception is Southern Yellow Pine that has a very high pitch content. These old logs are highly prized for flooring and furniture and command premium prices because the wood ages so nicely.
White oak, hickory, ash may be others as these contain rot preventing toxins, but certainly not rot-prone maple, birch, beech and many other native hardwoodsWhen the going gets tough . . . it's tough going!
I'll get back tomorrow with some names and addresses.
Jeff
California Walnut Designs in Grass Valley, CA is a great source for figured Claro Walnut. Michael usually has an add in the FFW magazine classified section. I'd highly recommend him.
Dale
Found this on the company salvaging timber from Lake Superior.
http://www.oldlogs.com/company/enviro.html
Don
It is a rather simple process to eliminate/greatly minimize degrade (warp) on those top layers of the stacks during air/kiln drying. It is recommended that they be top weighted with slabs of re-inforced concrete slabs 4-6" thick and set up such that a fork lift truck can put them on top of the piles.
While the operations that do so reduce the volume of lumber going into the kiln because of the thickness of the slabs, it is a beneficial process because the degrade you mention is more or less eliminated.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled