Replies

1. 
   Frank Vucolo | Oct 12, 2009 04:47pm | #1

   Lyptus,

   I think that falls outside the range of what I would consider using a pin nailer for. I just don't think they will provide enough pull to bring the face fram tight to the plywood across the length while the glue dries.

   Options: Creative use of cauls with the clamps you already have? How about pocket screws?

   Frank

2. 
   SLOSapo | Oct 12, 2009 06:06pm | #2

   Seems like a perfect application for pocket screws.

1. 
   Lyptus | Oct 12, 2009 07:15pm | #3

   Thanks. I thought about pocket screws and have used them to join the face frame together. However, it seems that every other pocket screw doesn't lock tight- rather- it get's flush with the entry hole and then spins in place. This experience has lessened my confidence in the joint holding strength of pocket screws. Am I doing something wrong? - Lyptus

1. 
   poplarguy | Oct 12, 2009 08:41pm | #5

   It sound like you and I are working on the same project.  I was planning on using pocket screws.  Have the pocket screws failed holding solid wood or just the plywood carcass? I've had a few fail to grab, but only with very soft pine or cheap home center plywood.  And that's usually when I forget to set the clutch on the drill.  Are you using coarse or fine thread screws?

   I'm also curious about 2" pin nails.  I'll use 5/8 pins when I'm gluing up rail and stile doors to hold the stub tenons in place without clamps, but I can't see using 2" pins on anything for the reason you mentioned. 

   Simon

1. 
   Lyptus | Oct 12, 2009 10:48pm | #6

   I'm using fine threat 1" pocket screws for the walnut face frame and coarse threat 1 1/4" pocket screws for the plywood base. It seems that when screwing the face frame together, the first screw of a pair in the stile or rail holds but the second screw tends not to, spinning in place. Maybe the second screw of a pair should be driven by hand?- Lyptus

1. 
   stevemorris | Oct 13, 2009 12:26am | #7

   how about just some weight? stand the assembly up, glue as required, add weight

   bricks, buckets of water or sand, not high tech, but its worked for a couple of times

2. 
   gofigure57 | Oct 13, 2009 01:05am | #8

   Lyptus,

   One inch screws sound to short for face frames, I  use 1-1/2 for f-frames and 1-1/4 for plywood / f-frames depending on the width of the f-frame stock.

   Tom.

3. 
   Frank Vucolo | Oct 13, 2009 05:00am | #9

   Lyptus,

   I'd go with the 1-1/4 fine screws when screwing into walnut. Here's a link to Kreg's recommendations for screw size and type. http://www.kregtool.com/information_center/faqs.php?FAQ_CAT_ID=3#33

   The reason the second screw is spinning is because you are driving too aggressively. If there is a torque setting on your drill/driver, set it very low, then finish driving by hand until you get the right knack/setting to use just the drill/driver.

   What's happening is that the wide pan head of the screw is bottoming out on the flat surface created by the step bit, as it should. No longer able to drive, the spinning threads strip out the walnut.

   The reason this doesn't happen on the first screw is that there is some 'give' as you pull the two boards together. You feel this, let off the trigger and the screw sets. Now you go for the second screw and all the 'give' has been used up by the first screw so the second screw strips.

   Kinda hard to explain. Hope that was clear??  

   Frank

4. 
   Lyptus | Oct 13, 2009 03:52pm | #10

   Wow, that's a great explanation. I think you're right. I'll try backing off on the torque even more for the second screw and probably try a hand square-bit driver too. I'm using 1" fine thread screws for the walnut face frame because the stock is only 5/8" thick. Kreg recommends using a 1" screw for stock under 3/4". I'm also using glue (for what it's worth on a butt joint). Thanks,
   Lyptus

5. 
   Dave45 | Oct 13, 2009 04:26pm | #11

   Frank's explanation is dead-on. I dial my drill clutch back to around 10-12 when driving pocket screws, and try to release the trigger on the first "click".If you hear a faint "snap" when you drive the screws, you've probably snapped off the head. That can be a PITA to fix. - lol

2. 
   mike4244 | Oct 15, 2009 02:42am | #12

   You may be using the wrong type of screw thread. If the wood is soft,try the coarse screws,hard wood try the fineer threaded screws. If one type does not work then try the other.Make sure the depth of the hole is correct .I do not recall having a pocket screw spin in the hole, are you using Kreg screws?

   mike

1. 
   polarsea1 | Oct 15, 2009 07:02am | #13

   Another tip on driving pocket screws is to just do it in short bursts rather than driving them right in.

3. 
   ring | Oct 12, 2009 07:41pm | #4

   Pins will not draw the joint closed. Don't go that way.

   It's no big deal to improvise clamps. If you've got shorter pipe clamps you can just hook their tails together. Alternatively, you can use twisted rope, tie-downs for pickup trucks, or even long planks with wedges driven in between stop blocks.

   David Ring

   http://www.touchwood.co.il/?lang=e&id=1