Replies

1. 
   DavidxDoud | May 04, 2005 01:26pm | #1

   If I follow accepted stacking practices can I air dry these boards outdoors without too much warping.

   well,  yes...'if'...I'd leave them wide,  with the exception of the board or two that contains the pith,  split it right down the pith - if the tree was straight grained and standing vertical (not leaning) the wood should behave well - if you want to be sure,  place a sticker every foot - - weight on the top (frenchy will say wrap a web clamp around the stack at each sticker and keep it ratcheted tight,  and this would work wonderfully,  if you want to invest in the straps) - a roof of sheet metal to shed water,  and shade cloth if the stack is in the sun -

    

   "there's enough for everyone"
1. 
   bear2 | May 05, 2005 03:44am | #5

   Thanks David

   The ash in question was tall and straight,  no knots for the first twenty feet. Since I do not work with long lenghts, I've cut the boards in eight foot lengths. I've placed ash stickers every two feet, covered the ends with a Lee Valley product, Stacked the ash in a shaded area and covered the top of the pile. I think I'll pass on the straps ans hope for the best.

   Many thanks, Joe 

1. 
   frenchy | May 05, 2005 09:57am | #8

   Joe,

    you have to have something to keep the boards from warping.. I use straps but if you don't like the idea, then use weights, a lot of them or that ash will wiggle around  and warp and in general behave like a teenager at his first dance..

1. 
   bear2 | May 12, 2005 04:49am | #14

   Thanks Frenchy, I get the drift of your note

   Joe

2. 
   bear2 | May 13, 2005 03:51am | #18

   Hi David, As you know, I've read  a lot of interesting responses and discussions as a result of my Ash Drying question. It has been very informative and I've learnt a lot  in this discussion and in other sites you and 'rootburl' have sent me. Thanks for the time and the information. By the way I've re-stacked the Ash using dry stickers. 

2. 
   KeithNewton | May 04, 2005 03:02pm | #2

   Make sure to use clean soft stickers. Ash is bad to show sticker stain if it takes too long to get the moisture out, especially during the warmer months.

1. 
   bear2 | May 05, 2005 03:53am | #6

   THanks for your reply, others have told me that the only way to prevent staining is to use 'ash'  stickers that come from the same lot.  I'm also told that pine or cedar will stain ash.

   Thanks, Joe

1. 
   KeithNewton | May 05, 2005 06:14am | #7

   Joe I hate to dissagree with the others, but I am afraid they have given you some bad advice. I am posting a link to the knowledge base at woodweb.com , Dr Gene who moderates this has written several books on the subject of drying lumber, and building and running kilns. If you are too lazy to read the archives, just post your question at this forum, it is for professionals, and see what they say. I would just hate to see you ruin your lumber. later K

1. 
   DavidxDoud | May 06, 2005 06:53am | #10

   here's the link that you spoke of rb -

   http://www.woodweb.com/cgi-bin/forums/sawdry.pl

   and here is the text of the good Doctor on 'Keeping lumber flat when drying'

   Keeping lumber flat during drying

   When drying, any weight on the top of the stack is better than none. In fact, it is the first few pounds that do the most good.

   However, to get really flat lumber -- Align stickers (and any 4x4 bolsters) perfectly (24" on center) or else go to closer sticker spacing (12"), and then wandering is OK. -- Dry as fast as possible for the species and thickness. The dry outside fibers are so strong that they will help hold the board flat. -- DO NOT EVER let partly dry lumber regain moisture, as this wets the surface fibers, making them weak and unable to hold the lumber flat. (Keep rain off the lumber, do not mix MCs in the kiln, do not be too conservative in the kiln, etc.) -- Add weight to the top of the pile (up to 10" of concrete) to help hold the lumber flat. (Watch for sticker indentations on softer species.) -- Use correct sawing techniques to prevent the effects of lengthwise shrinkage of juvenile wood, cross grain, etc. In other words, saw parallel to the bark and not to the pith; rotate 180 degrees from face #1 to face #2. -- Appreciate that flat-sawn lumber from near the center of the log has a natural tendency to cup. -- Use straight logs.

   Professor Gene Wengert, forum technical expert

   http://www.woodweb.com/knowledge_base/Keeping_lumber_flat_during_drying.html

   thee>...but I am afraid they have given you some bad advice

   me>...really? I don't see anything egregious - - we could argue back and forth,  kiln vs air dry,  and points could be scored either way - - what Joe has done should result in flat,  usable lumber...

   EDIT:  looking over the thread again,  I percieve that you may be disagreeing with those who would propose to use ash stickers sawn from the same log as the boards - I'd agree that that is suspect,  tho with the weather we've been having here currently he would get away with it comfortably - -

    

    

   "there's enough for everyone"

   Edited 5/6/2005 12:00 am ET by David Doud

1. 
   KeithNewton | May 06, 2005 07:33am | #11

   David, Yes my disagreement is about using green stickers. After going back, I don't have any disagreement with your post, and I didn't see where anyone else suggested the green ash stickers, but that is what he said in his response to me.
   Did you search sticker stain in light woods? here is what I saw.
   Conclusion: THE ONLY PRACTICAL, 100% CURE FOR STICKER STAIN IS TO ACHIEVE FAST DRYING UNDER THE STICKERS WITH FRESHLY SAWN LUMBER. Risk Factors for Sticker Stain
   There are certain procedures or events that will encourage sticker stain formation (that is, cause or result in slow drying under the stickers or alter the wood itself in some way). Most of these procedures or events are most serious when the MC of the lumber is over 40% MC. They include: Before Sawing
   - Using old logs that have been stored during warm weather.
   - Storing lumber more than 12 hours in warm weather after sawing, but before stacking. Stacking & Handling
   - Using stickers wetter than 10% MC.
   - Using stickers wider than 1-1/2 inches or thinner than 3/4 inches.
   - Exposing the lumber to excessive rain, especially at high Mcs and in warm weather, after stacking.
   - After stacking, exposing lumber to poor drying conditions. Kiln Equipment and Procedures
   - Using a kiln load that is quite wide (over 16 feet) with velocity under 500 feet per minute (fpm).
   - Using a "snow melting" or "thawing" kiln procedure.
   - Developing kiln relative humidities, after the first 6 hours of drying, that exceed the recommendations (10o F depression is mandatory for green 4/4 and 5/4).
   - Using kiln temperatures over 160o F, especially early in the kiln schedule.
   - * Using long (over two hours) fan reversal cycles. Practical Cures
   The cures for sticker stain involve drying the lumber under the stickers as quickly as possible by avoiding wet stickers, avoiding high kiln temperatures, and using good schedules and controls.

   Edited 5/6/2005 1:16 am ET by rootburl

2. 
   bear2 | May 12, 2005 04:48am | #13

   Many thanks for your advise and additional information. I have found it very useful. I fully intend to do supplementary readings on the subject, one never has enough knowledge. I think I'll be Ok now.

3. 
   bear2 | May 13, 2005 03:59am | #19

   Just a short note to express my thanks for your help and guidance re : Ash Drying > Your discussion with others and reference to other sites have been very informative. By the way I've re stacked the ash with dry stickers and followed the good Doctor's advice. Thanks Joe

1. 
   KeithNewton | May 13, 2005 08:21am | #20

   Good, I am glad to hear it. While you were not talking about a large quantity of lumber, it would still be disappointing to end up trashing your lumber stash. Just a note. lots of the white dense woods that are low on the natural decay resistance are prone to sticker stain especially in warm weather, and especially if they are thick. You really need to get the moisture out faster.I spent several hours last week getting the highly figured stump wood from a 5' DBH cottonwood from a patron's old home-place for some turnings. I started a turning on Sat night , and could not finish that night, and when I got back to it on Monday morning, it looked like a wet loaf of bread with no preservatives. It was just spoiled with mold. Too much carbohydrates, too much moisture, and no preservatives, + air and the right temp. Just what I should have expected. I just lost my stamina.

2. 
   LeeGrindinger | May 05, 2005 04:46pm | #9

   Joe, sticker stain is caused by mold, mold that forms under the stickers. While air drying wood likely to sticker stain like ash and hickory the only way to avoid sticker stain is to get the moisture content below the point at which mold grows. That point is 18% moisture. You will need to restack the pile every week or two with new and dry stickers until the wood reaches that moisture content if you want to avoid sticker stain. Taunton has begun selling articles individually through their site and I believe one I wrote on this very topic is listed there.LeeMontanaFest

1. 
   bear2 | May 12, 2005 04:53am | #15

   Hi Lee, I appreciate the information and advise. The Ash is piled accoeding to spec., we will be checking it in a few weeks. Thanks, Joe

3. 
   wchips | May 04, 2005 04:55pm | #3

         Hi

       I am from the midwest ,and every time i tried to air dry ask i would end up with the powder post bettles eating half of it. I have been told that it is best to kiln dry ash. as in a kiln you have high timps that kill powder post larve. I once asked a externamator about it , He never did give me a answer on it.

                                   Have a nice day Lee

1. 
   bear2 | May 13, 2005 03:36am | #16

   Hi Lee. Thanks for the interest in my Ash drying, I should be ok , in my corner of the country (Eastern Ontario) I have not run accross your problem. Take care

   Joe

1. 
   LeeGrindinger | May 13, 2005 03:41am | #17

   Okay Joe, I hope you end up with some beautiful lumber.LeeMontanaFest

4. 
   lwj2 | May 05, 2005 01:20am | #4

   Make sure you paint the ends immediately to keep checking down to a minimum.

   I've heard advocates of latex paint, glue and the stuff places like Packard Woodworks sell as end grain wood sealer.
   http://www.packardwoodworks.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=woodprep-endgws

   Good luck,

   Leon Jester
1. 
   bear2 | May 11, 2005 05:25am | #12

   Thanks Leon, Lee Valley has a great product for end sealing.

   http://WWW.leevalley.con