Hello all.
I’m looking for some advice as to whether to upgrade my compressor to use with conversion guns for HVLP spraying, vs. just buying a good quality turbine?
I’m thinking that I’m going to have to spend $200-$300, at least, to get a decent, larger compressor. So, for that, or a little more, I could get a decent quality turbine. I already have some regular HVLP guns that an aquaintance gave me, so I wouldn’t have to invest in any new guns – not right away anyway.
And I’m a hobbyist woodworker/furniture maker – so I don’t need professional quality – I won’t be cranking out a production line, etc.
I have read some of the old posts archived here, and I’m leaning towards just getting a good quality turbine – esp since I already some spray guns. Any further advice or ideas?
aj kelly
Replies
I believe you will (and should) spend a bit more for a good turbine or the appropriate compressor. Unless you need the portability of a turbine or lack the space for a compressor, I see no reason for a turbine. A compressor supports a spray gun better, and is more versatile.
It is that simple.
IMO, jim
I agree with Jim. If it were me I'd go for the larger compresser.
What would you consider a larger compressor? I inherited a 5 hp/13 gallon Campbell Hausfeld compressor. It was the last piece of equipment my dad bought before he died. It had never been used. I know nothing about compressors except that it's what one uses for a nail gun, which I may get someday.I wanted to get an HVLP system and assumed that the compressor was purchased for that purpose, too. I wasn't sure what gun to get, and heard a lot of comments that the turbine system was much better. I was told that a conversion HVLP gun is very hard on a compressor.I did end up getting a turbine HVLP system. Works great but wasn't cheap. I've often wondered if I made the wrong decision, but I had a hard time finding the information I needed to make the decision.
A good turbine HVLP setup should serve you very well. There is nothing wrong with such a system.HVLP has been kicked around a lot on this site. You might enjoy reading some of that.HV is just what it says: high volume. So you need a compressor with high CFM and tank capacity (I consider my 26 gal to be minimal). On the other hand, I've had good luck with a 2.5 gal, but that's given a small surface to spray and a gun that's spraying in little more than bursts (so that the compressor can keep up).You did well with your purchase, and maybe saved yourself some brain damage that comes with analyzing compressor options.
Thanks for your kind reply. If you consider your 26 gallon to be on the minimum side, that makes me think I made the right decision.
Go to http://www.hvlp.net/webstore.htm. Maybe there is some information here that might help you make up your mind. I have th Fuji Mini Max 4 and really like it.
Ray
One thing that comes with a turbine is warm air.
I use a Graco commercial unit and it is fantastic. I sprayed with a compressor for years, still have the guns, and have never even thought about using it since I got the HVLP.
The downsides to the turbine, in my opinion, are that it is noisy, and it blows a lot of air around the shop.
I used it this morning to spray shellac sealcoat on a stack of drawers, and couldn't have been happier unless someone else was doing the spraying and I was windsurfing in Hawaii.
Hal
http://www.rivercitywoodworks.com
Hal,
Yes, that's what I'm thinking. I don't really need a bigger compressor for any other reason. I only use it to run my nailguns and it does a fine job there.
And I've heard the warm air advantage mentioned before.
As far as the noise issue, I think it is going to be just as noisy (or close to it) with the compressor system. All that air is going to be shooting out of the gun and the compressor is going to be going most of the time (as I'm not going to be able to afford a huge compressor).
Do you have any advice on which system to buy now? You've probably only used the Graco system?
BTW, I looked at your website - beautiful stuff Hal - good job. And hello to a fellow Oregonian - I live down in Ashland, Oregon.
aj kelly
Hey! Another Oregonian. Very cool.
Ashland, huh? I spent most of my very early years in that valley... White City, Medford and about halfway between Medford and Jacksonville before we moved away, although we later moved to Cave Junction for a spell which is just the next county over to the West. I used to have relatives all over that valley. Today my younger brother lives in Grants Pass and to my knowledge we have no other relatives in that area.
My enduring memory of Ashland is of that mineral water fountain in the center of that one public park. I don't remember the name of the park... it's been too many years! But I'll never forget how much I hated the taste of that mineral water! The rest of my family loved it. Heh... always the odd one out.
Cheers!
Kevin,
Yes, Lithia Park. Lots of minerals in the water, including lithium, which is where it got its name. And I agree with you - I hate mineral water!
Here's a link that you may enjoy: http://www.cr.nps.gov/nr/travel/ashland/lit.htm
aj kelly
Oh wow... that brings back memories. It's a beautiful park! I remember that too.
We used to go there fairly regularly. My great-grandfather and one of my Dad's Uncles lived right on the Ashland side of... I think it was Talent? Almost right across the highway from the old Harry & David's retail store/facility. Although I'm told that they've moved a bit so that may not be a very good landmark any more.
My Dad's Uncle ran a second-hand store there right on the highway in the 60's and 70's. Many times I've wondered how many old "second-hand" pieces of antique furniture he must have sold there which would be worth a little bit more today.
Hey... are there still lots of Peach orchards on that end of the valley? I don't know if you've ever seen Peach wood and neither have I. But I have seen Apricot wood and the guy who showed it to me also had Peach and he said they are identical except for color. Gorgeous wood!! The grain is virtually identical to Cherry with the pitch pockets and everything, but the coloration is lilted more towards the color of the fruit. Cherries being mostly red, the wood is reddish. The Apricot wood I saw, and it darkens exactly like Cherry, was over a decade old and had an absolutely gorgeous dark orangish-golden color to it. I tried and tried and tried to talk this guy into selling me a piece. He kept saying that he would but he never did.
If you can find an orchard being taken out I'd try like hell to talk the owner out of a stump or two if I were you. Guaranteed you'll never be able to buy anything quite like it from any commercial source. I managed to do that with a couple of burly stumps of Hazelnut wood from a nearby orchard up here and the burl is amazing... and almost gone. I need to find more!! LOL
Cheers!
ajkelly,
Warm air isn't always your friend. It can cause problems with fast drying finishes like shellac, laquer and waterbornes. If you do decide to go the turbine route look for a non-bleeder type gun so that it isn't constantly stirring up dust whenever you stop spraying.
Incidentally, you don't need a very big compressor to run a conversion gun. I would bet that the one you have now would do just fine with the right gun. Check these out...http://www.spraygunworld.com/Information2/LOWAIRGUNSWood.htm This site is very informative and you can't beat the prices. They have guns that will run off compressors with outputs as low as 1hp and less than 5cfm @ 40psi. Conversion guns are also more flexible than turbines.
Rob
Edited 3/17/2007 12:31 am ET by Rob A.
Rob,
Thanks - that is a good site. I've bookmarked it and I will probably try one of those guns when my budget allows.
aj kelly
Thanks for the information. I am blown away at how helpful you all are here at Knots. I've definitely learned to ask questions, especially before spending $$$. I found a gun that would work for my 6.9@40psi compressor for under $100. Although the turbine I bought works beautifully, I spent way more than I wanted and still have a compressor sitting idle.
Edited 3/19/2007 10:49 am ET by handymom
Hey,
I also used to live in Ashland. What a wonderful place. But don't tell anyone else. I loved living there but need a larger city to sell my work. I have many fond memories of that entire area.
I read the rest of the posts on this issue, so now here is my response.
You can actually get a quiet turbine, from Fuji. They just came out with them.
The big plus about my Graco system is that it comes complete (as do some others), but the best part is that it has a feature on the gun whereby you can shape the fan and control the amount of air on the back of the gun instead of having to change spray tips. It really works well. I can make it spray as softly, round, wide, hard spray, whatever. There are two little controls to do all of this. Plus it has the usual knob to control the amount of fluid coming out.
I use mine for spraying shellac, polyurethane, and waterbased polyacrylic finishes. It works really well for all of them. I have never had a problem with the air being too warm.
I don't have a spray booth so I spray outside on calm, dry days, or I somethimes spray inside and use a filter box to filter the particles out of the air in my shop right next to where I spray. It actually works pretty well and consists of a box full of graduated filters with an old furnace fan sucking the air through so the particles get stuck to the filters.
Thanks for the compliments on my work. I appreciate it. I wish I had more photos but I am really lame about taking pictures of everything I do.
Hal
http://www.rivercitywoodworks.com
I think the main reason to get a turbine unit is portability.
Unless I wanted to use air tools, I would certainly be disinclined to buy a big compressor just to use for spraying.
********************************************************
"It is what we learn after we think we know it all, that counts."
John Wooden 1910-
I trust it's becoming clear that getting involved with quality spray finishing makes sense only if you are doing production work (where speed is critical), or if you simply want the learning and experience. Otherwise, you may become frustrated. To further explain:
1. One can do excellent finishing with a brush in most cases.
2. Various aerosol can products are very good these days.
3. If you're doing low viscosity clear coat HVLP spraying, many of the varied gun and system options will serve you well, after some experimenting.
However,
4. Once you venture into more viscous material, wish to cover larger surfaces, and/or use solvent-based material circumstances become more complicated and less absolute, i.e., if spraying were ever scientific, it then becomes more of an art, where trial and error is the rule.
My point is to provide you a heads-up about how convoluted HVLP spray finishing can become. The phenomenon is already underway in this thread. You've been exposed to the compressor vs. turbine discussion, and things are already getting a bit hazy. Without a formal introduction, you've slipped into spray gun decisions. I was prompted to write in order to suggest not looking exclusively at gravity feed guns (and now I've decided to take the big picture approach).
There are at least 3 (not brands but) types of guns with their pros and cons. With higher viscosity material, atomization becomes more challenging. Now questions arise about the best type of gun, tips, caps, and needles, thinning, conditioning, extending, etc. Then you learn that water based material cannot provide the piano finish that oil or lacquer based material can. (That's a kind of molecular physics issue--yikes!)
Have you looked at the price of non-explosive fans? They're expensive. Most cities have ordinances about spraying "solvents." Suddenly, you're in an environmental and personal health arena. Once you get that all figured out and taken care of, the EPA will outlaw the products that work best for you.
Hopefully, there's some information here that will prevent your being blind-sided as you progress.
IMO, jim
Jim
Yes, thanks - those are all valid concerns. I've worried about all of these issues. Or, should I say, my wife is worried about the cascade of expense here ! :)
But, even with those concerns, I still think that the quality of sprayed finishes are better. And I like the speed. I get so tired of the slow, tedious process of brush-on or wipe-on finishing.
You do bring up my greatest concern - a safe place to spray. I can spray outside on a beautiful day like today (sunny and in the 70s here in Southern Oregon - sorry to all of you East Coasters - hang in there, spring is coming). Or I can finish my spray booth - but you're right, the non-explosive fan is what is holding me up. Anybody know of a really cheap source for non-explosive fans? Or I can spray with water-based finishes and just use any old fan. Which is probably what I will do until I can get a better shop and an integrated spray room built.
So, I'm off to the shop to try spraying some shellac outside with my little compressor and cheaper HVLP spray guns.
aj kelly
In another post I started, I mentioned that I want a low cost HVLP kit ($300) to finish about 28 doors for my house remodel. Although, I agree that brushing on a water based clear coat finish can be done, it seems that spraying would be more efficient for this many doors. This is more of a "production" environement. Spray, sand, spray, sand.... 28 doors. It sounds really expensive to hire a paint contractor for this. But being that I've never used an HVLP sprayer, how hard would it be to get the hang of it?
Jointerman and IMO,
Spraying isn't that hard to learn and it does produce a very nice finish. Once you learn it you will then have the skill for life. Fine Woodworking has a couple of good articles on choosing a spray system. This article compares the four major types of spray systems and reports that a conversion system is more versatile and has a better spray pattern and superior atomization compared to turbine HVLP. http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/FWNPDF/011113058.pdf
I can direct you to a site that has a ton of info. on spray guns for woodworking and they will dispel the myth that you need a high output compressor to run a spray gun. If you still decide that a turbine unit fits your needs better, this article is a good test on models that are reasonably priced (under $500). http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/FWNPDF/011137062.pdf
Rob
Rob...
You mentioned a site that has information on regular spray guns. Would you please post the web address for me. Thanks.
smoothplane343
Sure thing. Search around here, there is a lot of good info.
http://www.spraygunworld.com/Information2/Woodworking3.htm
Rob
Thanks for the web address Rob. Lots of good information on HVLP. Looks like they have some very reasonable prices as well.
smoothplane343
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