Replies

1. 
   RonInOttawa | Oct 20, 2009 03:54pm | #1

   You will get possible several answers to this question ranging from WB poly to exterior (spar) varnish to epoxy. I think all would work for this application with the caveat that you need to consider the bottom/back of the wood if you intend to "completely seal/waterproof" the wood. It will be in a warm, moist environment and a "complete" seal is going to be difficult to achieve and regular maintenance will be required.

   Regards,

   Ron

2. 
   YesMaam27577 | Oct 20, 2009 04:25pm | #2

   RonInOttowa's advice is excellent -- be sure, when you do this job, to finish all surfaces.

   And although yours was "not a shellac question", I'll say that shellac is among the acceptable answers.

   But if you don't like shellac, there are other answers.

   If what you want is true waterproofing, then the closest you'll get is with marine epoxy.

   After that, just about any of the exterior clear finishes is tied for second place. Marine Spar Varnish handles expansion and contraction well, and might be my choice.

   I won't be laughing at the lies when I'm gone,
   And I can't question how or when or why when I'm gone;
   I can't live proud enough to die when I'm gone,
   So I guess I'll have to do it while I'm here. (Phil Ochs)

1. 
   wane | Oct 20, 2009 04:43pm | #3

   thanks so far ..

   no problem with the maintenance ..

   the counter is cantilevered and slides in and out to be refinished, the back splash is hung from the wall and can be lifted free (150 pounds!!!) .. all surfaces will be sealed and holes will be sealed.

   really shellac again?

   Ought-a-waw boy II

2. 
   RonInOttawa | Oct 20, 2009 05:30pm | #4

   If you choose a marine epoxy I would highly recommend Cold Cure Epoxy, available from Lee Valley. It's made by Industrial Formulators in Vancouver, a subsidiary of System 3. It dries crystal clear and has a low viscosity such that it flows well when rolled or brushed. I've used it on mahogany trim and cedar strips and the results were excellent.If you go the spar varnish route I would recommend (in order) Pettit Z-Spar Flagship Varnish, Z-Spar Captain's Varnish or Epifanes Marine Varnish. I've found both brands at marine supply shops around Ottawa. The stuff's expensive ($25-30 per pint)but you get what you pay for.Regardless of your choice, plan on at least 2 coats with sanding between coats.Regards,Ron

   Edited 10/20/2009 10:32 am ET by RonInOttawa

1. 
   wane | Oct 20, 2009 06:56pm | #5

   Ron .. if I go the epoxy route then I'm limited to gloss?  If that's the case then a satin spar would probably be a better option ..

    

    

   
1. 
   RonInOttawa | Oct 20, 2009 07:06pm | #6

   You can always rub out the epoxy with rottonstone or pumice. Rottonstone is the finer grit.Ron

2. 
   PeterThomson | Oct 20, 2009 08:52pm | #7

   I'm wondering (more experienced folks can hopefully speak to this) if epoxy would be too soft as the wearing surface and might need a more scratch resistant top coat.

   The reason I wonder this is recent experience finishing some concrete countertops in our kitchen.  Epoxy is put down on the concrete as primer for the polyurethane top coat.  In this application the epoxy builds a thick, lustrous finish but gets abused and scratched pretty easily.  Polyurethane (which won't bond to concrete on its own that well) is put down to essentially protect the epoxy, since poly is more scratch resistant.

   Yours is a different application, but a nice thick layer of epoxy to really try and seal in the bubinga makes sense (if only to me).  To the more experienced folks out there:  would you put down a poly top coat if you had an epoxy-based finish on a wearing surface?

    

   Peter

1. 
   wane | Oct 20, 2009 09:56pm | #8

   interesting, we'll see what the response is, that would resolve allot, epoxy, topped with a satin poly, provided that the poly sticks well to the epoxy .. I'm just head'n out so I'll check back in tomorrow ..

   thanks all

3. 
   chaim | Oct 21, 2009 01:17am | #9

   Spray 2k poly

   Or out source it to a finishing shop!

   Chaim

    

4. 
   SteveSchoene | Oct 21, 2009 04:21am | #10

   Encapsulating in epoxy--the "bar" look, isn't a good idea.  The epoxy yellows, turns hazy, and is impossible to repair when it fails.  A coat or two of very low viscosity epoxy to aid in waterproofing before you apply a varnish makes sense. Shellac is also a very good barrier against water vapor, but it needs to be protected from liquid water, with an oil based varnish.

   Spar varnish wouldn't be my choice.   It is relatively soft, and is (counter intuitively) less water resistant than other varnishes.  It is formulated for flexibility as is needed on boat, spars and trim which actually flex in use as well as facing much greater range of moisture and sun. 

   For a brush on finish I would use a phenolic resin varnish for toughness.  An example is Waterlox.  It does come in several sheens, from Satin ot Gloss. 

   Of course, a sprayed 2-part polyurethane finish is a horse of another color and could be extremely durable.  It shares very little with the single part "poly" varnishes.  But, in general those are pro-only finishes, in part because of the toxicity of the chemicals involved which require meaningful protection to both person and environment. 

    

    

1. 
   wane | Oct 21, 2009 03:12pm | #11

   ya, not keen on the yellowing part, didn't realize that was an issue with epoxy, but I do like the concept of "encapsulating it".  What is poly 2k, is that the same as 2-part polyurethane?, examples? .. thanks

   ps .. Waterlox sounds interesting, but then reading about a product on a co's website is a little like reading your "horror scope" ..

   http://www.waterlox.com/site/468/default.aspx

   Edited 10/21/2009 8:25 am ET by wane

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Oct 21, 2009 04:44pm | #12

   Yes, 2-k polyurethane is 2-part (from the 2-komponent German terminology).  I'm not equipped myself to spray it so can only point to one brand, Interlux Perfection that is used in marine applications.  The Interlux can be applied by hand, but it is difficult to get the sort of look you would want for a vanity or furniture. 

   Waterlox is just a high quality phenolic resin varnish formulated with tung oil, not a mysterious product.  The Original/Sealer is semi-gloss and thin, for wipe on application.  The Satin has a bit more solids content, and the Gloss more solids.  Phenolic resin is tough and rubs out well.  It is also quite water resistant.  It is a rather dark, and will also yellow somewhat over time.  Application methods are exactly the same as ordinary "poly" or wipe on "poly". 

2. 
   chaim | Oct 21, 2009 11:40pm | #13

   Steve wins a prize!

   Yes 2k is a two part finish. They can be dificult and require experience to spray even, and at the required conditions but from what Iv'e seen it's the standard today for high end kitchen and bathroom cabs.

   Chaim  

1. 
   SteveSchoene | Oct 22, 2009 12:38am | #14

   Actually, I think that on this side of the pond, conversion varnish is the more common choice for quality cabinets, with 2-k polyurethane being more popular in Europe, etc.  Neither are amateur finishes. 

5. 
   WillGeorge | Oct 22, 2009 07:46pm | #15

   I for one think Bubinga by itself IS very water resistant.

   See: Just one link..

   http://all-wood-working-plans.com/bubinga.html

   Maybe just some oil that can be replinished when needed?

    

1. 
   wane | Oct 23, 2009 03:25pm | #16

   I was wondering about that, I've had about a dozen opinions so far and two were for a "natural" finish, less toxic ... tung oil or something like that .. I have some furniture around the house that I used oil on and the miter joints gap a bit each winter, so I'm leaning towards "encapsulating" the slab in epoxy, I'll be doing some research over the weekend, I'll have to go to allot of bars around town and check out how they were finished .....

   Edited 10/23/2009 11:53 am ET by wane

1. 
   stpatrick | Oct 25, 2009 11:50pm | #17

   Wane, first of all, welcome. 

   Second, I don't know if Steve Schoene evers visits at BT and he may therefore be somewhat of an unknown to you, but over here he is a veritable wealth of info . . . . very, very knowledgeable.  I mention this because if he is not keen on it being encapsulated, that is an opinion which i would not lightly dismiss.  jmho, ymmv, etc.

   Best of luck, patrick

1. 
   wane | Oct 26, 2009 03:21pm | #18

   thanks .. I hear what everyone has said, I was just acknowledging a common comment.  I am going to take Steve's advice and roll on 1 or 2 thin coats of very viscous, diluted, epoxy (West System 205 & 207) as a sealer, followed by varnish.  I spent about a month flattening the largest slab 34" X 2" X 8', and it's cupped moderately again.  I'm not worried about Bubinga being water resistant, just the humidity causing it to warp out of control and being able to clean it.  Steve, if your reading this can you suggest a varnish, avail in Canada .. thanks again ..