I was up in a place looking at some gunstock blanks and a guy at the local sawmill was talking wood. He mentioned that someone had recently felled a HUGE old Bastogne walnut tree. The tree, as felled was sold for $45,000! Amazing, although it does yield some of the most beautiful marbled walnut and makes stunning gunstocks.
Just thought I would share.
Replies
There was a recent magazine article about a similar tree in Pennsylvania. They were talking about some thick planks that sold for over $100 a bd ft!! Must have been some really impressive wood!
They had pictures of a huge dining room set that a guy made out of some of the wood. I wasn't real impressed with the design, it looked kind of awkward to me but the wood was absolutely spectacular!
Mack
"WISH IN ONE HAND, S--T IN THE OTHER AND SEE WHICH FILLS UP FIRST"
what sort of stock work do you do?
m
I make reproduction military stocks for various collector markets. I specialize in machinegun stocks but I do some other stuff including OEM work as well.
You can see my work at:
http://www.mgstocks.com
Beautiful work. Now, a question, if you have time. I have a block of slightly figured Koa (All heart, no white sapwood), which I got in Hawaii. It is large enough to make two stocks and upper handguards for two M-1's. I want to make two sets to build two display Garands to commemorate each of my late uncles. (24th I.D., New Guinea, and 6th MarDiv, Okinawa.) I want to do these myself, for obvious reasons. I know I should start out on trial pieces in fir, then possibly Birch, but I don't know of any publications on how to make stocks. Can you steer me. Thanks, Buck.
I know this isn't what you want to hear but carving out a stock takes a HUGE amount of pratice and a lot of scrap. I have done a few pistol grips successfully, but I haven't done a whole stock yet.
In addition, getting a garand right, requires a lot of complex inletting and many of the companies that produce stocks don't get it right. What I would HIGHLY recomend is talk to a company called Weinig about having them carve the stocks using your wood. The usual price for this is somewhere around $150 but may be more for a garand, especially due to the two handguards.
Here is the link to Weinig:
http://www.wenig.com/
Buck,
I appologize, you asked for information and I just gave you my opinion, I hate when others do that to me.
Kennedy "Checkering and Carving of Gunstocks" is one of the better books out there. It usually goes for about $40.
If you like guns at all, I would look at getting Howe's set of books called "Modern Gunsmithing". There are a number of books with that title, THIS is the one you want and is the only one in two volumes. It covers a lot of info about gunstock making but isn't as in depth as Kennedy's book. It is also a treasure trove of interesting information and forgotten skills.
Lastly, you will need to buy a lot of tools from Brownells, the huge gunsmith supply store in the sky at http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/home/default.aspx
Michael
I had seen the listings for two books on checkering and carving, (Amazon, etcetera) but wasn't sure what the scope of the information was. I am interested in neither checkering nor carving, but I know that the finish on these stocks will be critical. I'll look for all the books you mentioned. My son is the shooter. (After decades in the Infantry, I don't like the noise anymore.) I have a concept of cutting the profiles on a bandsaw, then doing the key inlet while the stock is still square, and using that inlet as the reference point for all future shaping. Of course, I have a half dozen G.I. stocks available for pattern reference. The reason I mentioned Fir and Birch is that I do believe in baby steps, and I am not overconfident. I was buying an engine from an old self-trained machinist (in his beautifully equipped and organized four car garage) years ago, and I expressed concern about being able to do a job right. I got a lecture about it was "a hunk of metal" like any other, and I was a man "as smart as any other", and I was to collect parts, tools, and facts and do the job! It was a version of George Patton's "Never take counsel of your fears." Since then, I've gotten into and out of a lot of messes, and I'm a lot better at planning. I have a concept of bandsaw, mortise chisel, OSS, files, rasps, more mortising, etcetera, and a lot of sandpaper. The fitting will be slow and detailed. It will have to be a labor of love, or I'll never even start it. Thanks.
I'll endorse the Brownell's recommendation, and not just for tools. My catalog is 3 or 4 years old and shows several books on stock making in general, in addition to the ones on checkering and decorating.
I will go to their online catalog. I've also got a hunch that my son has a hard copy somewhere in his smithing stuff. Thanks.
About 5 years ago one of my brother's good friends passed away who was a bachelor and loved making gunstocks. He had 4 blanks (3" X 12" X 8') cut from cherry for gunstocks but had them since the 30's. Naturally my brother got them fom the estate as part of his executor's duties.
Now the good news- since I do a lot more woodworking than he does he gave me these blanks !! (Man, finally a good use for a brother !!) So there they are in my garage waiting for a "special" project for some special wood.....
My DWsays make sure they don't go to YOUR estate..First we get good- then we get fast !
Cherry gunstocks? Didn't know anybody did that. Guess it makes good looking plane handles, so why not?Steve
my brother has a gun stock that the old fella made before he passed away in cherry- looks quite good. THe one that is really great is the tiger maple stock with a light stain and dark walnut at the front tip of the stock as well as the end of the pistol grip......... WOW WEE....First we get good- then we get fast !
Sounds like a dapper looking stock. I got to thinking after I posted, perhaps I'd seen something besides walnut on an old musket once. I made a mannlicher style stock out of cedar of all things long ago, but I was just goofing around as a kid. Take care,Steve
I've seen them out of maple and a few tropicals, as well as the predominant Walnut. (I was in the last Army ROTC year group to use the M-1. There were a very few with Maple stocks. I remember one in my company. During WWII they must have used what they could get.) But the right piece of Cherry would be a thing to behold. Needless to say, I doubt that that weapon would EVER be fired. Cherry would bruise too easily, and might be brittle. Cheers.
Buck,
Didn't the Germans use teak on some Mausers? Seem to remember that. M1's are a neat old rifle IMHO. Out to get mine out again one of these days. No kidding on the look of a cherry stock, could be awsome. To bad fiberglass is so popular now, used to see a lot more nice stocks. I bet wood will be back though, someday.
Steve
I know next to nothing about Mausers. I know sporting rifles are the most likely to have an exotic used for stocking. Grips, of course, don't count. They don't have a shock absorbtion role. You can use just about anything. Fiberglass is cheap and durable, and very resistant to warping. Sure no beauty or romance in it, though. Cheers.
I have to go on a little rant. Friends, forgive me.
I have always been impressed by highly figured walnut gunstocks and blued steel. I am interested in a new hunting rifle, but the gun I want comes in a laminated stock. Lordy , it is ugly! Alot of the new guns come in flat finishes.Frankly, I think the gunmakers don't want to lay out for the better wood.
People have told me that laminated stocks are stronger. Give me a break. Who has ever heard of ANYONE ever breaking a gunstock with normal use.
Even the run of the mill Browning looks like dreck. You have to go to the Safari grade to get a pretty gun.
Is this just a sign of the times and everything getting to look Taiwanesse?
Frank
Frank,
I actually do know of two rifle stocks being broken by normal use. My brother has a heavy barrel Ruger in .308, and one day when we were prarie dog hunting, his stock just split down the middle. The rifle probably had a couple hundred rounds through it that day, and maybe fifteen hundred in its life. Sure got all our attention, as it scope ringed him pretty hard. Here's the kicker, laminated stock. Never have seen a solid wood one break, minus gross negligence or accidents. The other was a local with a one of those new short ultra magnums. Not sure what happened exactly, I just know the stock broke and it really scoped him hard. Two black eyes and stiches. Laminated stock there too.
Have you seen that all plastic looking Berretta pump gun? Shish. Then you've got Berretta with their Xtra wood or whatever they call it, you'd think they could split the difference for crying out loud. I was admiring a Spanish AYA, side by side, the other day, now at least someone still gets it. Course, it was 14 big ones. Make our own maybe? Steve
>> Frankly, I think the gunmakers don't want to lay out for the better wood.
I'm sure you're right, but that only reflects the fact that their customers also don't want to lay out for the better wood. You can hardly expect the makers to absorb the extra cost.
ever heard of ANYONE ever breaking a gunstock with normal use.
Biscardi,
Only once, a hunting buddy fell on his browning .300. 'Course he does weigh 300#+!! Har,
Ray
Umm ... me ... I did it ... well maybe you wouldn't consider it normal use ... but I jumped off a small cutbank into an old cat trail while hunting chukar near Riggins in Idaho and discovered (in mid air) that a loop of barb-wire had fouled my ankle. I got the barrel into the air as I landed but when the butt hit it snapped the stock off at the pistol grip. This was a very light soft piece of walnut. The good news is that the pieces interlocked in such a complex joint that with a bit of strapping tape I was able to continue hunting. Even later I just epoxied the parts and slid them back together and used it for years afterward.
"... I jumped off a small cutbank into an old cat trail while hunting chukar near Riggins in Idaho"
I don't mind you doing it, but would you please not TALK about it! Do you know what it's like living 200 miles from the nearest game bird? Huh? DO YOU? All we have here are 'Coastal' Deer. (Think of butchering a great dane. That'll about say it.) Pigs are ranging up the San Mateo Peninsula now from the Santa Cruz Mountains, but they are inedible, and destroying parks , orchards, and gardens! I tried to talk my youngest into a trip to the Central Valley for pheasant two years ago, but though he is attracted to the idea of antlered game (And has no objection to CERTAIN people - getting his commission in the near future.), he couldn't deal with the idea of shooting a bird! Well, feelings are just that!
My father was raised in South Dakota, where they shot'em for dinner from August to December! The 'limit' was what you could eat. It is to dream.
Good Hunting.
Buck
>> Pigs are ranging up the San Mateo Peninsula now ... but they are inedible ...
First I ever heard of an inedible pig. What's the problem?
They're nasty, stringy, bony, and full of testosterone. In short, rank. Kind of like a Javelina, only they like a lot of water and prefer heavy vegetation. When they go through a pasture, it looks like it's been plowed by a drunk. Some of the older males are tuskers. You don't want to get up close and personal with them. I've heard that some will grind the meatier parts, mix it with ground venison, and make dog food. Kibble would be cheaper.
Buck,
Don't mean to rub it in, OK maybe a little, but I was sitting on the front porch cleaning up drywall tools this afternoon, and had 5 big ole fat roosters, not even 100 yards away, rumaging around in the wheat field in front of my house. I could hear some more raising a ruckus out in the tree strip. Reaffirmed my decision, yet again, to live this lifestyle. Take care, and if you get the urge to chase a few, come on out.Steve
My Dad was lazing flat on his back when he was sixteen or so, in Barley stubble, and he heard a noise down range from his feet. He opened his eyes and saw a big male coming right up in line with him. He lifted my Grandfathers L. C. Smith double (one hand) and nailed him. He said he was a lttle bit irritated that he had to get up and walk six feet to put the bird on the string! Only in South Dakota! My Dad is still with us, and I have the L.C. Smith. Bought mail order almost one hundred years ago, with Damask barrels. Bird hunting is a joy, but I haven't been able to do it in twenty years. Cheers. Buck.
I hope you didn't have a round in the chamber.
Frank
It has been so long ago that I can't specifically remember but I am sort of a fetishist about gun safety and rarely traveled with a chambered shell. Bird hunting I sometimes would when expecting imminent flushes, but as this occured in a forested area at midday it is unlikely that I had a shell chambered ... even so I would always handle it as though it were fully loaded and off safety. On this very trip I caught a buddy with his safety off several times and that was the last time we hunted together. There is plenty that can go wrong despite our best efforts and greatest care ... I have no tolerance for carelessness or stupidity.
One story I heard about a .270 splitting after years of use. Wood IS organic. It does change. I've seen M-1 and M-14 stocks break in bayonet drills, but that's a different ballgame entirely. Cheers.
Back in the 70's I had a friend who had been a master carver for Reinhart Fajen, a large custom gunstock maker. When I knew him, he was working on his own, and it wasn't uncommon for him to pay over $1000 for a gunstock blank even at that time. His average selling price for a custom stock with fancy carving and inlay was over $6,000. You can probably triple that in today's dollars.
I can tell you he did beautiful work, but he wasn't exactly getting rich at it.
Michael R
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