Replies

1. 
   Tao | Apr 05, 2005 03:45am | #1

   What is it you need to know?  I speak German, and went to their website, where it looks like they have pretty complete documentation.

   From a quick reading, It looks like a solvent based pigmented stain especially suited for open grained woods like oak, ash, mahogany and walnut.  It doesn't raise the wood grain. They claim to use only state of the art materials, etc. but then they all make the same claim.  They are near Duesseldorf, and phone numbers are given, but they won't be of much use to you.

   It doesn't look like anything special.  You could probably duplicate its characteristics with Behlen or Mohawk's solvent based pigmented stains and a decent color matcher.

   They don't appear to have any US distribution, and I guarantee you don't want to try to import small quantities. Best try to match it with a more readily available product.

   If there are further specific questions, I'll be glad to help further.

   Michael R

   Edit:  I didn't read far enough.  It's actually a solvent based glaze, to be used over primed or sealed surfaces.  Same story as before, except use Behlen or Mohawk solvent glaze instead of stain.  Spray or brush on, rub it in, wipe it off.  Apparently it is kind of like a gel stain in that it seems to be usable as stain or glaze.

    

   
   

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   Edited 4/4/2005 9:07 pm ET by Woodwiz

1. 
   alias | Apr 05, 2005 04:51am | #2

   thank you mike i also went to homestead finishing and they said the same thing you did . a NRG trans-tint dye with a laquer thinner/ denatured alcohol mix dark walnut and red mahogany mix . i am a little confused why the laquer thinner and denatured alcohol mix?? any thoughts?? thanks for your help.... bear"expectations are premeditated resentments"

1. 
   Tao | Apr 05, 2005 06:01am | #3

   Well, I've never known Jeff J to be wrong before, but I think he may be this time. 

   The literal translation of the product name is "Antique ground stain", which means antiquing glaze to me. The instructions make it pretty clear that it is a solvent glaze, which usually means pigments, and that it is for use over painted or sealed surfaces.

   Trans Tints are a dye, and while they are my favorite dye stain, they don't have enough body or opacity to function as a glaze.  They are best for coloring bare wood.

   Any good solvent glaze will do the same job as the Zweihorn product.  Again, I mostly use Behlen or Mohawk glazes, but most any solvent glaze will do. A gel stain might work as a substitute, depending on the effect desired.

   As far as mixing alcohol and lacquer thinner, that makes a pretty workable medium for TransTints.  The stain dissolves best in alcohol, which mixes with the lacquer thinner, which gives a little better handling characteristics and drying profile.  I don't use it because I have my own pet mixes, but it's just as good as what I use.  It will penetrate well into pores, and doesn't raise grain.

   I get the feeling you could use a little more education on terminology.  Flexner's "Understanding Wood Finishing, or Jeff's big fiishing book would be a great investment, paid for many time sover by the first job you didn't ahve to re-do.

   What does your customer want you to do with this stuff, anyway?  that probably should have been my first question, not the last..........

   Michael R

    

1. 
   alias | Apr 06, 2005 03:17am | #4

   mike- thanks again for you reply , first a small bio on me . i do historic restoration's for a living and have been doing this for around 26 years. i have a degree in commercial art, but i'm a better carpenter than artist although it comes in handy . i've built tables ,windows and doors . mostly architectural woodworking, to swing the figurative broad brush. enough about me.. you are absolutely correct about my terminology definency. and own alot of books on finishing a couple from jeff, three vhs's with bob flexner, and a nice little book by mike dresdner. and my favorite a booklet by behlen that i bought for $2 that has really helped alot. but mainly my focus is woodworking and need more experiance in the finishing aspect. and the answer to your last question is there abunch(36) of doors that need to be refinished , rebuilt, and alot of glass replaced . there basically . two french doors , with pallidian transom. there are in a media room that spans 50' by 68' that room , is in a house that is 45,000 sq. ft. . each unit is a double french door ,with 10 panes of glass in each door. the pane is 14" x 18" the unit itself is 36" wide and 9'6" high. not counting the pallidian transom. the amount of panes alone that are to be replaced are around 240 pcs.. i've been working with these people for around 6 yrs. on and off very diifficult to deal with. but so far so good. from what i've done with this stain was stained some samples and found that over time it got to dark so i cut it with some alcohol and got a more desirable color . and checked it that seemed to do it . there seems to be a satin polyurethane on top of that but have to check the mil thickness of that to get me in the ball park of coats. there is a tremendous amount of light that permiates the room and i'm wondering if i do dilute the dye/stain/glaze. will it go lighter over a couple of years, and not match the existing that i'll be refinishing and fully replacing?? this has got me lightly biting my lower lip>>and you are correct education wouldnt hurt.... so in a nut shell that what my little life entails..... slainte' thanks mike ..... kent."expectations are premeditated resentments"

1. 
   Tao | Apr 06, 2005 06:11am | #5

   Good to know what you do and what your background is.  It saves a lot of questions.  You picked a challenging way to make a living.  Couldn't you find something easier, like spearcatching?

   I like "difficult" customers.  When they find out that someone is actually willing and able to give them exactly what they want, they get a lot easier to deal with. I hope you're not shy about asserting yourself when necessary.

   Woodworking skills are only half the battle in my book.  The other half is finishing, because that determines so much of the visual and tactile qualities of a project.  It doesn't matter at all how well made or proportioned a piece is, if it ends up looking  like it was finished with old Crayolas and a Hershey bar.  Unfortunately, many of us don't pay near as much attention to our finishing skills as to our woodworking  skills. (end of sermon #47)  I have that little Behlen book somewhere; it is a good one.  I find myself reading stuff over from time to time, and generally get a little more out of it each time. 

   The question I was trying to ask is, "what sort of effect are you trying to produce, on what kind of wood?"  Are you using it on bare wood, or over a dye stain, or as a glaze over sealer, and with what kind of topcoats?

   As I re-read the instructions it becomes clear that the material is suitable for use as a glaze on sealed or primed surfaces, or as a stain on bare wood.  This makes it most like a solvent based gel stain.  A pigmented stain shouldn't darken over time; that's why I asked what kind of wood.  For that matter, neither should a dye stain.  I find that stains and paints look lighter wet than dry, because the pigment particles get closer together as the film shrinks in drying.  Is that what you are referring to? I always let my samples cure out for a couple of days before making a final choice.

   Pigments are definitely the most colorfast, and shouldn't change color at all, except maybe when exposed to direct sunlight over a long period of time, i.e., years.  Metallized dyes are much more colorfast than most aniline dyes, and have about the same color retention as carpet dyes, in my experience, which is pretty good.

   If you are using the stuff on bare wood you can get almost any gel stain in a neutral base and have it colored any way you want.  If you are using it as a glaze or for patinating, a gel stain will work, but I like regular glazes better, probably because I am used to them.  With your art training, you shouldn't have much trouble color matching.

   Hope this helps a little.  By the way, if you just google "Zweihorn" the first thing that comes up is a home page that gives you a choice of English, french, German, etc.  This I find after wading through all the German......

   Michael R