Am considering Worksharp sharpener. Would like to hear experience with either model. 2000 or 3000. Is the cost differential justified for the work done? Are the wheels for the 3000 interchangable with the 2000? Does the 1750 rpm vs 580 rpm make a significant difference?
Discussion Forum
Get It All!
UNLIMITED Membership is like taking a master class in woodworking for less than $10 a month.
Start Your Free TrialCategories
Discussion Forum
Digital Plans Library
Member exclusive! – Plans for everyone – from beginners to experts – right at your fingertips.
Highlights
-
Shape Your Skills
when you sign up for our emails
This site is protected by reCAPTCHA and the Google Privacy Policy and Terms of Service apply. -
Shop Talk Live Podcast -
Our favorite articles and videos -
E-Learning Courses from Fine Woodworking
-
-
Replies
If you just love to spend hours sharpening and shaving your arm, you don't want either one. But if you, like me, want a fast, no nonsense woodworking edge you'll get the 3000. Personally, I can't even see a reason for manufacturing the 2000.
wink, the 2000 is a joke, the 3000 is fine for my bench beaters, the first cut on the main bevel of old recently acquired EBay, garage sale or flea market tools. The finish cut of the main bevel and the secondary bevel will be done with a LV Mark ll on my water stones. Why, you may ask? Because it depends on your holding the tool dead nuts true in the slide space or you get a slightly more/less angle and it may not be dead square. The newly announced top platform accessory for IIRC $70 may make it a better machine(I look for reports on this) but it is funny that the machine already has the mounting lugs for the platform, I think that it should have been included to do tools wider than 2" like #7 & #8 plane irons or slicks. Greed strikes again, gotta get those add on sales of ten cent accessories if ya need them---we knew ya would---we got screwed, ya think?
While I will never stick my Sorbys, Henry Taylors or fine Japanese dove tail chisels in this rig, it does do a good job-quickly- of removing the gross first cut on many tools.
Where it excels is in flattening backs on chisels, plane irons and for me specialty plane cutters like the dozens of #45 and #55 that I used to have to do one at a time as I decided to use them. I still final cut on an extra fine water stone and polish out with green compound but it saves a load of time on those first cuts.
The see thru sharpening for turning and carving tools I have not done yet, perhaps a turner or carver will speak up? It looks like it has promise. Paddy
Edited 12/23/2008 6:23 pm ET by PADDYDAHAT
I agree about the inability to get a square end from the original insertion space. I have been adjusting innumerable times. However, I have been using the new jig and it is excellent. The first thing you do is make it flat and true to the wheels. That is easy enough to do by adjusting two screws and a good straight edge. The jig is extremely easy to set up and use. It gives remarkably consistent results for re-sharpening.
I will do all of my plane blades on the top part, no matter what the size. I will probably do my chisels underneath, since I am not yet comfortable that the top jig will hold them flat. We shall see.
Thanks for the input.
>Tage Frid used a belt sander in a vice to grind his tools.I just looked this up in my Frid book. As usual he is using the belt direction in a dangerous direction ! (One can tell by the sparks coming off the chisel.)Obviously he lived a long productive life so perhaps I am over reacting here.To steal a saying from Ed H. " What works for him may not work for the weak minded." Or if your angels are on vaca. in Maui.I recommend a chain mail apron if sharpening on a belt sander in the direction he is. As one who has had as a kid the experience of having a short knife embedded up to the hilt in their thigh due to doing something dumb I can say from experience you feel silly asking yourself "Well. Know. What shall we do next here ?"If the corner of the chisel snags a hole in the belt ( or cuts a hole in the belt ) the chisel WILL be propelled at great velocity toward the operator. Could get messy fast.I say go at the belt so the chisel is being pulled away from the operator. As my Mom used to say "BE SMART". She also used to say " Straighten up and act like you know what you are doing"I been acting ever sinceroc
PS:
Having learned both ways I rather like my training wheels in some cases (most cases). The only part of the blade that matters is the microscopic junction of the two surfaces of the blade. To say one can hit that infinitesimal area consistently with each stroke on a stone without rounding the flat and reducing the clearance angle of the final result . . . if you say you can you must be a "good student".As my old math teacher used to say "Who has the solution to that last equation?" and when some poor sucker would raise their hand he would say "Well if you have the answer to that question you are a GOOD STUDENT because there is no solution.Making fun of sharpening guides is like making fun of your engine machinist when he/she uses a milling machine to cut the top of your engine block or valve head flat.Should he use a file ?For that matter it is like making fun of someone who uses a hand plane. When you get over using your "training wheels" you will just use a chisel like ME !OK i got it out. I am going back to my box of chocolates and then perhaps a bit of a plane here and there with my training wheels I mean hand planes.A woman told me the other day when one gets REALLY GOOD all one needs for a tool is a rock.Edited 12/25/2008 3:49 pm by roc
Edited 12/25/2008 3:57 pm by roc
Do you prefer the Veritas or the Lie-Nielson rock? :)
:) One would expect the Veritas rock, as it is pressure flaked rather than impact chipped, throughout. Oh, and it's made using pure Canadian chert :)
>Do you prefer the Veritas or the Lie-Nielson rock?I assume you mean rocks since we all agree hand planes are for wimps.Well I have a Holtey appetite, with a Veritas budget. But the fairly recent Records are the closest to being irregularly shaped lumps with thin veins of chromium and molybdenum.roc
Edited 12/26/2008 6:09 pm by roc
I’m sure you only use a router and jig to cut dovetails also as that would be consistent with your line of reasoning. In fact I believe the logical end for you would be a CNC only shop.
I have never once used a jig to sharpen any of my edged tools; I guess that I didn’t know how dull I have been these past 25 years. How in the world did I ever build all that stuff?
Napie, Napie, Napie,>cut dovetailsNah the fit up of dovetails only needs to be visibly pretty on the visible sides.A fine edge must be accurate at the MICROSCOPIC level. I see you missed that bit. It's OK. I will make allowances for your over site. It's the Holidays. Not your normal habit to overlook fine details and bits of useful information that could make your life easier and your work even better.>have never once used a jig to sharpen any of my edged toolsThen how could you possibly feel qualified to argue this point. I hear the British resisted using piston driven tractors for fifty years after they were made available in that part of the world. I would hardly go to them during that backward period for an opinion on new tractor technology.It must be one of those inexplicable parts of human nature. We don't want to get involved with all that messy "science" and actually look at the quality of edge produce by the various sharpening systems using magnification and compare them to the quality of cut on problematic woods and extremely hard woods. http://www.taunton.com/finewoodworking/SkillsAndTechniques/SkillsAndTechniquesPDF.aspx?id=2793[ for Philip who's 'puter can't find my links: Sharp and Sharper
Nine honing systems are put to the test
by Aimé Ontario Fraser on this here FWW site ]No then we would have those pesky things called facts that tend to stamp all over our prejudices. Sides all that fact finding takes away from the time we could spend sanding the surface or rubbing the finish after our half assed sharpening job has scraped our work all up. And time to get that massage because we are so worn out and sore from pushing through all that drag from having not enough clearance on the blade.A sharp edge that sorta shaves hair is one thing; pocket knife, carving gouge. A tool to cut a flat surface is another. Just because the edge shaves hair does not mean the rounded face behind the edge is not dragging and causing various problems. Especially apparent on very hard wood.>only use a . . . jig to cut dovetails
Do you mean dovetails like this? See "Lil tails" picnope used the "normal" method; saw and chisel. Of coarse this is walnut ( soft ) ( friendly wood ) and camphor wood ( even softer ).OR do you mean dovetails like this? See "BIG tails" pic
Yes I used a block of wood with two rare earth magnets with a sheet of plastic over to reduce friction to start the cut . Still used a big old backsaw and a big old temple builder's chisel. Sorry about the glue on the end of the tail vise. Like I said else where. Bench is far from finished. But working for the dinning table planks just fine.I gotta get out of the dog house with the Queenmasteroftheuniverse first then I can finish my bench.But these BIG tails are purple heart ( oooh not soft ) ( definitely not friendly wood ) and no soft squishy secondary wood to mush into the sockets. Nope nope. Kind of like working soap stone. ( I imagine; I have never worked that stuff )Cannot use a half assed sharpened blade on this. The plane will just slip and skip and not penetrate the wood for beans. Do you think I did not try the "easy" "quick" ways first ? ( : |>I’m sure you only use a router and jig to cut dovetails also as that would be consistent with your line of reasoning. In fact I believe the logical end for you would be a CNC only shop.Ope there you go again "being sure" before you investigate the sichiation.>line of reasoning
I am not reasoning any thing out I am just relating the actual empirical results of my repeatable experiments that were confirmed by an independent researcher see above link. ( : )>didn’t know how dull I have been these past 25 years.Could be. > How in the world did I ever build all that stuff?Just a guess but I'd say soft wood and lots of wasted energy?Oh and lots of sand paper. One can skip all that with accurate, polished, blades. See "shin'o" pics. That is the finish you get off the blade. No wax or finish of any kind on the wood and that is just my old work bench. Ya otta see it when I make an effort to follow the japanese dudes tricks.All those other pics are for Philip. He said he likes it when I post lots of pics.roc who spends time sharpening so he doesn't have to sand and rub as much cause I don't like them last two. Just wimpy I guess.
Edited 12/26/2008 5:28 pm by roc
Hi Roc
Those dovetails evidence attention to detail, care and craftsmanship. Thank you for the pictures.
You are wasting your energy attempting to debate a point with Napie who, along with a few others, does not subscribe to rational discussion. Napie prefers the incisive expression of dogma - sprouting "this is the way it was done by one of my Gods, so who am I to challenge Him?". And like a True Believer that he is, he will be the True Disciple and attempt to convert all others to his ways, ignoring their pleas that they are only trying to have some fun on an afternoon free. But I must watch what I say here. After all he is a member of every gun club in the free world, watches only old Arnie Schwarzenegger movies, picks his teeth with a Bowie knife, and pumps iron when not woodworking. Is there a theme in this?
I trust you are having a good Christmas or Channukah break.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Having spent several years in residential carpentry and now learning the art of woodworking I can say that the WS has worked well for me. I have used it to keep a sharp edge on my chisels and plane irons with ease and a very short learning curve.
Now I am learning to hand sharpen my blades on wetstones, and will probably start out using a guide. I can certainly justify the cost of the WS and as my house is in the state of perpetual remodel, it will come in quite handy keeping my construction chisels honed.
Sometimes you have to go the non traditional way to serve a purpose for the time being. One can't learn every aspect of woodworking all at once, or those of you who make their living at it would be doing something else all together. I would prefer to master a hand cut dovetail and later spend the time learnign to hand sharpen. And I will, but for now I think the WS has been a great investment.
Sorry...scratch my last!
Took delivery of my veritas stone pond, 800, 1000, 4000, and 8000 grit wetstones and now have a big bald spot on my arm...something I never had with that 3000. Now I am not sure what I will use thw Worksharp for. These stones are far better both in ease and quality. Square sharp edges are no problem. I am finding, though, that it is taking me quite a while to get rid of the unsquare and poor bevels that the WS3000 left me with.
To do it again, I would definitely go with stones. Much easier than I thought and far superior.
That said; anyone in the market for a slightly used WS3000?
Oh bard of Perth, far be it for me to be the one to spread dogma. I defer to those far more learned and accomplished than my humble self. I truly be a luddite and do follow the old ways and that is the path I advocate. Others can do as they please and that which works them. I do see that not agreeing with those that hold sway causes great derision from the sages of Knots…
<!----><!----> <!---->
Now I never pump iron, only weekly Krav Maga workouts and a daily run. Arnie is a hero and I believe I have missed at least one gun club in <!----><!----><!---->Argentina<!----><!---->, but I do carry a Bersa for back-up on occasion. The perdez do tremble and I enjoy my retirement.
Well done Napie! Heh ... I loved your reply :)
I trust you have had a good break from your retirement over Christmas.
Regards from Perth
Derek (Bard of Perth)
Edited 12/27/2008 1:42 am ET by derekcohen
Mr Roc, Very nice bench . Queenmasteroftheuniverse, now thats funny. Good luck gettin out of the dog house.
Tom
Tom,>QueenmasteroftheuniverseThanks. She is the best cook in the universe so it is not an unreasonable request that she wants a place to serve her creations.'I must comply . . . resistance is futile.'roc
Wink:
How many woodworkers of, say Ray Pine's calibre, would use such a device?
I don't know the answer, but I would hazard a guess that it is very low. I happened upon this quote from David Savage:
"If you know how to sharpen properly without a silly set of training wheels then it should give you the very best edge most easily."
Would it not be better to save your money and learn how to sharpen? Inspired by the above comment, I recently stopped using my Mark II Veritas jig. With a little practice, I have been able to get a reasonable edge on diamond stones. I feel I'm improving with repetition. And it is quite satisfying!
Regards,
Hastings
Thanks for putting the process in perspective. I've gone from dreaming Tormeck to rationalizing worksharp to realizing the truth you speak. There isn't a quick path to acquiring a "skill"- Just time and practice.
All you need is a cheap 6” high speed grinder with a 60 white wheel and a hard white Arkansas oil stone. No jigs or fancy equipment and this will take care of 90% of your sharpening needs. I keep all my plane Irons and chisels sharp with this simple set up. Turning tools go directly from the grinder to the wood and a few slip stone will take care of any carving tools if you have them.
Sharpening is easier than cutting most joints, there is no need to go overboard on it. Remember the Goddard’s and Townsend’s did just fine without all that fancy stuff and Tage Frid used a belt sander in a vice to grind his tools.
Spend the savings on some great timber.
My Dad taught me how to put a razor sharp edge on tools ~60 years ago and I've never had a problem sharpening any edged tools by hand, but I use my WS3000 now because it's fast and accurate.
I no longer get a thrill out of lapping away by hand (it was pretty exciting shaving all that forearm hair off) - at the same time if the WS hadn't been relatively cheap (discount compliments of Hartville Tool) I'd still be sharpening the old fashioned way. ;=)
Happy Holidays to all of us,
Bill
Thanks for taking time from your Christmas eve to respond,
Something I concluded after several January sessions at Williamsburgis that those folks were earning a living with the best technology available. While I value their skill and techniqures. I'm certain if they had access to 110 you can bet they would have used it.
Personally, when it comes to sharpening, I think there is far too much subjective debate on the issue (as with most things woodworking). The best sharpening method is the one that enables you to put a sharp edge on your tools and get back to working wood. I really don't think it matters if you're a jig person, a freehand person or a machine person, just use whatever method you prefer and are comfortable with. The same applies to waterstones vs. oilstones vs. sandpaper. All of them work.
The best sharpening method is the one that enables you to put a sharp edge on your tools and get back to working wood.
Well said. There is too much posturing here - posters with a need to prove some point or other.
Not everyone has the same interests. What works for me is not necessarily what is best for someone else. What is more important is that you have sharp blades and can use them productively.
Regards from Perth
Derek
Not everyone has the same interests. What works for me is not necessarily what is best for someone else. What is more important is that you have sharp blades and can use them productively.
That does seem to be the most intuitive approach, doesn't it?
pz:"The best sharpening method is the one that enables you to put a sharp edge on your tools and get back to working wood"Well, yes. But doesn't your statement imply something about time? And isn't cost also a factor?You could easily spend $1,000 on sharpening paraphernalia; then there is the space for a sharpening station. Space being a "biggie" for many.If you have to unpack and set up a lot of "stuff" to get an edge, then you are not working wood. This would suggest that the easiest and simplest methods, albeit that require some practice, would get you back to the job at hand.Regards,Hastings
Well, yes. But doesn't your statement imply something about time? And isn't cost also a factor?
I imagine that a person would consider these things in choosing a sharpening method that is best for him. Steel doesn't care how it's sharpened and wood doesn't care how it is cut (please, no commentary on bevel angles and reversing grain -- those have to be factored in regardless of systems employed.)
You could easily spend $1,000 on sharpening paraphernalia; then there is the space for a sharpening station. Space being a "biggie" for many.
Once again, I am not promoting a particular method as "best". The best method is the one that will be used to achieve a good working edge. If a person has $1000 to spend on a sharpening system, and the space to house it, so what? Such a system might not be best for you, but absolutely be so for someone else.
If you have to unpack and set up a lot of "stuff" to get an edge, then you are not working wood. This would suggest that the easiest and simplest methods, albeit that require some practice, would get you back to the job at hand.
Assuming that we are, once again, talking about the person with the $1000 sharpening system -- and the space to house it -- then we are likely talking about someone who has a dedicated sharpening station that is ready to use at all times, so there is nothing to unpack and nothing to set-up. However, most people do not fall into that category (I don't) which means they will choose some other method that is appropriate to their preference, budget, space and skill level. In all cases, the best method is the one that a person will use -- whether it is a sharpening machine, or sandpaper on glass.
Now, you may wish to debate what I've posted -- feel free. As for me, I'm not interested in proving a subjective viewpoint (which, for the most part cannot be proven simply because it is subjective.) Unless there is empirical data that states, "method x is the best way to sharpen tool steel," then there's not much point in arguing over everyone's opinion.
pz:No argument with what you say. I might just suggest that it would be best to find the cheapest and quickest method first and if that doesn't do it then try the more elaborate things until you find something that works for your particular situation.I know I tend to try to substitute skills with tools and I'm learning that some things just require a little patience and practice. Cheaper too!Regards,Hastings
Totally agree! :-)
>If you have to unpack and set up a lot of "stuff" to get an edge, then you are not working wood. This would suggest that the easiest and simplest methods, albeit that require some practice, would get you back to the job at hand.Actually I just have my tool valet sharpen my tools. I let him worry about all those silly little details. That is simplest and easiest for me. : )roc
always on the job at hand
I don't think I'd consider the 2000. Pretty sure the wheels aren't interchangeable. I think they are different sizes. And you want the slower wheel to be certain.
I bought it to help me rough flatten backs of chisels. I don't think it does a great job of that though. In the coarser grits, you really need to put a good amount of the chisel on the platen just to register flat. There's also the issue of cutting a groove in the back at the OD of the wheel. I think it's interesting to note that LN uses sand paper on steel plates in their factory to flatten plane irons and chisels.
If you have a lot of material to remove, you are better off using your grinder. Sharpening a new bevel under the wheel works slowly. And alignment is an issue. And the paper in that area wears quickly (in the coarser grits especially).
What I like about the WS3000 is that it does an adequate job of a quick touch up. The question is, does it do as well as sand paper? Is it as quick? I'm not convinced it is. I probably won't sell it, but if it broke I'm not sure I'd miss it.
Adam
I bought a WS3000 in October 2007 partially out of curiousity and mostly on a lark. I sold it late this past fall. It was not my cup of tea, although there will be many for whom it is just the answer.
My issues: flattening is problematic unless you invest in some sort of foot activated switch to maintain control of placement with both hands. Yes I flattened a chisel satisfactorily, but I also rounded over several others and gave up the WS3000 for this task. Flattening a blade or chisel is a one-time task that is not that time consuming or hard to do without resorting to a powered tool.
Bevel sharpening is not bad, even though with the basic WS3000 you are constrained to 4 angle settings. But again, you have the subjectiveness of moving the blade or chisel in and out of the guide that can lead to a minorly out of square condition. Worse still, though, are those times when moving the tool in or out, and you are not quite careful enough and you lift the tool too early and dub the end of the bevel. Finally worse yet, are the radial sanding marks left on the bevel. After the first month or so of ownership, I found that after some initial time on the Worksharp, I resorted to my normal free-hand sharpening methods to finish the job. All in all, for me, it was not a time saver.
There are some tasks for which the Worksharp excels. Namely, if you have some narrow plow plane irons to do, it sharpens them very nicely and for the most part, square. Also, for clearing a nick from the bevel, it can be a timesaver.
For me, I'm back to my normal sharpening methods, which is basically a combination of oilstones, some 2000 & 2500 grti Sc paper, mostly freehand and occassionally a jig. For a jig, I like the Richard Kell, which gives a dead square edge. I have no issues whatsoever putting a bit of a camber on a blade free hand. I do not use back bevels either. For my lathe tools, I use an 8" slow speed grinder, with a Wolverine jig and a white Norton 60 grit wheel. But again, I don't use this set-up for my chisels and plane blades--it is so much easier to go free hand.
Who will like thie WS3000? Those looking for a quicker solution than afforded by taking the time to learn to free hand sharpen and those who go to long while working, between "touch-ups" on plane blades and chisels. There ain't no better shortcut than learning one method and sticking to it and mine is my old oilstones, for others, it's their's to learn!
T.Z.
>Flattening a blade or chisel is a one-time task that is not that time consuming or hard to do without resorting to a powered tool.Educate me.I used a brand new diamond DMT 10" long extra coarse and have about wore it out (compared with what it was like when new). Some of the plane blades from five years ago or so were awful and took for ever to flatten.What do you recommend for flattening by hand?rocPS: I like the way the Richard Kell holds the big Japanese chisel in their ad. that might just be what I been looking for. I know that normally the japanese chisel is the easiest to sharpen free hand but I steepened with a secondary bevel for my hard stuff and can't bring myself to grind off all that expensive metal to make a steeper primary.thanks
I've never had an issue flattening by hand. I've used waterstones, oilstones and Scary Sharp (Sc paper on a granite plate). If I have a particularly tough character to flatten, I resort to 80 grit zirconia-type paper (or even 60 grit). Then move up through more typical grits or onto sharpening stones. The trick is to start coarse enough in the first place.
I have never used any diamond stones, so I can't comment.
T.Z.
T.Z.,Thanks for responding10-4 on the zirconia-type paper (or even 60 grit)Guess I just got lucky and didn't know it. My problem blades must be extra hard. : ) (probably not)Yes the diamond plate instructions said don't apply excessive pressure but after a bunch of scrubbing away it got so bad I had the damn thing on the floor with my weight on it. I am a patient person but it took for ever to flatten and get the factory grind marks out of jointer plane width plane blades.Same thing with 220 Norton water stone. Problem there was stone was so soft it was unusable. Just tons of stone wore away in no time and got all dished and out of flat !Sure am glad the grind quality of blades have increased ! Thank you Lie-Nielsen and Veritas !roc
My Norton 220 is basically worthless because of the quickness of wear! I have waterstones, but I find them too messy.
I have yet to find anything that a zirconia paper won't cut, plus it wears well! Try 80 grit to start, or maybe a 60 grit. I think Norton calls their paper "Borizon" or something similar.
T.Z.
This forum post is now archived. Commenting has been disabled