Ok, here’s a new topic for y’all,
Drawboring. Now, I haven’t really ever really used a drawbore. Oh, I have done what I considered drawboring in the past. Really it was pegging, in part for the visual effect, in part for additional joint reinforcement. But not as a way to draw the joint closed.
So I was thinking of incorporating drawbore joints on a project I have coming up. I assume I need to make a tool, Yipee!
My pins will most likely be 3/8″, unless told otherwise. Issues it seems to me are should they be through or blind? I don’t mind on this if they show, in fact they will look nice I think to be able to see them. I assume if I didn’t want them to show I would just do blind ones from the backsides, correct?
Another question is about the tool itself–ideas? Can I just make something out of some old drift pins?
Offset. How much? Depend on the wood? What about a general idea about room at the end of the tenons…What about the wood for the pins themselves. Some better than others?
The carcass will be made from Cedar–2 pieces of beautiful, CVG old growth 20″ wide and 10′ long. Most likely a chest on stand. Don’t know if I will also use Cedar for the stand or not. Also don’t know what the door and drawer panels will be–same as the carcass or not.
Take care, Mike
Replies
There is no special tool needed to drawbore, a drill or brace and proper size bit to bore the hole. The hole in the tenon is offset slightly (1/16" or less), towards the shoulder of the tenon.When the peg is driven the tenon is pulled tight to the rail mortise.Put a point on the end of the peg to make it easier to start the peg, also prevents blowing out the back of the rail.You can use glue though it is not necessary on the peg .If it was possible to see thru the tenon you would see the peg is deformed as it passes thru the rail .This keeps the joint tight and the peg from falling out without glue.
mike
Thank you, Mike & Adam,
Think I'll make a couple test ones and cut them apart for the fun of it.
Take care, Mike
Check out the following issues of Woodworking Magazine - Issue 4 – Autumn 2005. Shoudl answer any and all questions you have about drawboring. Great article!
Because of the taper on the pin, the blind peg can be problematic. At least you'll need a deep hole on the other side.
Also be sure to have a first quality peg. If you get overly ambitious with your offset, you'll find out half way thru the joint as you encounter a great deal of resistance. If the peg has grain running out of it, you could split it there and then your screwed. Its very difficult to remove a split peg from a drawbored joint.
So i start this job at the dowel plate, making dowels. I like straight grained white oak.
You're right that the offset varies with the thickness and hardness of the stock. But keep in mind that if you draw bore too much, a rat tail rasp can fix that before you peg.
I prefer a center bit for drawboring. I've also used spoons and shell bits which are more difficult to bore at an exact location. A brad point drill bit might work (never used one) but I wouldn't recommend a normal 118 degree twist drill bit.
Adam
FYI, Chris Schwartz demonstrates the technique on his "Forgotten Hand Tools" video. However, a big chunk of that video is about sawing, so I figure you've got that part covered.
I've never used drawboring in furniture making - never had to. I have used it to make timberframe construction joints, tho'. In that application, the pegs are green wood, often white oak -- they flex more than dry stock so they go into the misaligned hole easier, and they assume a permanent bend as they dry, making it virtually impossible to remove them without drilling them out. The peg does not have to go clear through the piece, but it should go a good ways into the far side of the mortised piece. I didn't really taper my pins, just chamferred the end enough so it would catch the hole in the tenon and far side of the mortise rather than blowing through or splitting.
No special tools needed. Just drill the mortised piece, insert and carefully mark where the hole hits the tenon, then drill the tenon hole offset (closer to the shoulder) just a bit from the mark. How far depends on the size of the joint. For typical furniture construction, the joints are small and there is not that much room for "drawing", so 1/32" should be fine.
Mike Hennessy
Pittsburgh, PA
Thank you all for the replies.
I'm off to try and dig up the PWW issue--thanks Deirdre.
For such a small offset, I'll try dry pins, else thanks for the idea of using green ones, MikeH.
Take care, Mike
Edited 7/3/2006 9:56 am by mwenz
Just so you dont get confused in your hunt, the magazine is Woodworking Magazine not PWW.
Thanks for the correction. Too hasty in my response I suspect!
Take care, Mike
Mike, it's available both on his video (as mentioned) and in Woodworking magazine. I don't have that issue, but it's available on the CD mentioned in Chris's blog at http://www.woodworking-magazine.com/blog/
Hi Deirdre--thanks!
I have the issue...somewhere in the stacks. But the back issue CD is pretty cool.
Take care, have a great holiday!
Mike
Draw boring was done to eliminate the need to clamp the joint. Unless you don't have any clamps, you can skip drawboring. You can pre-compress a joint without draw boring, so no advantage there either.
Glue and a peg or two are plenty. Skip the peg if it would look awkward for the particular style.
"Draw boring was done to eliminate the need to clamp the joint."
Yeah, maybe, but its not exactly a substitute for clamping. At least- there are different things happening structurally. Both clamping and drawing boring compress fibers at the shoulder. But the draw bored joint puts the tenon in tension, effectively preloading the joint. You could argue that the clamp preloads the joint and that preload may be maintained by the glue after the clamp is removed. But that's pushing it.
That said, experts don't seem to agree why some joints were drawbored and why others weren't. Also, there's no indication that a given application (in furniture) was always drawbored.So while I agree with the basic logic of Boss' remarks, I don't think you can take it very far. Drawboring and clamping aren't the same, aren't interchangable, etc. A clamped (or even unclamped) M&T might be fine in some applications, but its not similar to draw boring.Adam
They were most commonly used on long table apron to leg joinery - lengths that exceeded clamps found in most shops, if the shop had any long clamps at all. They simply had to figure out a way to keep the shoulders tight to the mortised workpiece. That's all.
These were beefy table aprons and beefy legs. Drawboring is commonly misused in lighter frame construction in thinner lumber, ~3/4 or so where blowing out a quarter inch or so tenon is more likely than not.
Don't overthink it Adam.
I think a drawbore puts the joint in compression by the way. The last thing you want in an M&T joint is tension.
Edited 7/4/2006 7:25 am ET by BossCrunk
You're absolutely right that it puts the shoulder in compression. (in both cases).You're also right that I don't think they had many clamps.But there's no concensus on where drawboring was used or not used. I've asked this question of the people who should know and they don't know.You're right that I'm over thinking it, but I think its an interesting thing to think about!Adam
If you ponder for a moment building a large apron-and-leg table without long clamps you'll arrive at drawboring, nails, or the use of ropes to clamp the mortise and tenon joint in place while the glue dries.
It's a timber framing technique (as somebody else in this thread pointed out) that ports to furnituremaking only where the parts are thick enough not to make the technique a dicey proposition.
People who use them in light frame construction - average cabinet doors and the like are misusing them, wasting their time, and incrementally increasing the chance of a split tenon and other ills.
I agree. And I think your wisdom is sound advice. But I feel it would be wrong not to mention that I've done many many hundreds of draw bored mortise and tenons and only remember a few problems. I think it would probably be a good idea to go over them- In the maple 4x4's of my current workbench, I split a peg. Its grain wasn't ideal and the draw bore was too agressive. I tried to drift it out from the far side with another peg, but that one lodged along side the tapered nose of the first and became stuck. I tried a piece of metal and that lodged as well, making its own hole in the process. I drilled out the first from the near side with a nose bit, but the drawbore was lost.Last week, I was drawboring 5/4 pine. The tenons were 5/16" thick. One drawbore in 16 was too agressive and the pin was not tapered enough. I cracked the backside driving it in. This has happened a few times and is exactly what Bosscrunk is cautioning against.That said, I've made many many dry M&T joints with no problems. Its nice to be able to peg off a joint and continue working. This sort of joinery, combined with finishes that don't interrupt your work and hide glue rub jonts are significant time savers. In a hand tool only shop, they can make the difference between finishing a project as fast as a machine made project or not. So in terms of history, its my understanding that there is no rule about when and where draw boring was used. In terms of my personal experience, I've had good experience with drawboring with the few notable exceptions above. I've used them in the classic applications that bosscrunk discussed- a refectory table, joint stools, formes and the like. But on the refectory table I also used them to join a sprung bread board end. I've used them on 1" thick pine wainscotting, 3/4" thick raised panel doors in several species and even in a few internal guts (where the drawer runners intersect the drawer dividers.I guess I think of this technique not so much as isolated to timberframing, but more interms of what I would call one of the Arts and Mysteries, not at all unlike spring joints for example.happy fourth Adam
Jeff Greene in his book, 18th Century Furniture, has a blurb about drawbore M&T joints.
Check it out.
Make this a community discussion and not just a conversation between two people. You should have told us what Greene said about the subject.Here's a quick synopsis:
1) drawboring preloads the shoulder. You can do the same thing with a clamp then fire the peg straight thru.
2) Period tenons are short. Drawboring risks breaking the tenon
3) period workmen used spoons and shells which can't be used accurately enough to drawbore.1) I don't agree clamping is the same. See my earlier post. But I agree the difference may be academic. I was really thinking about clamping and gluing, not clamping and pegging. Also, cabinetmakers didn't seem to have lots of clamps. Some formal chair joints are virtually unclampable.2) The tenon can't break because it has no where to go in a tight mortise. I've never seen this failure personally. That doesn't mean the concern isn't valid.3) Charles Plumley had center bits in 1708. They are better than just about any modern bit I can think of. I've done this job with spoons and shells. There's a simple trick to using these tools accurately.AdamP.S. I hate it when fellow period woodworkers get nitpicky with me. So let me say this clearly: There are some few spots in Greene's book that are debatable or just plain wrong (like the one about the centerbits). That should not distract us from this truth; Jeff Greene's "American Furniture of the 18th century" is the single best book on the subject of period woodworking ever written. I recommend it highly.
Edited 7/5/2006 8:48 pm ET by AdamCherubini
Thanks for the synopsis and further discussion.
Some idiots like me don't have and probably won't get all the books available--I have a narrower range of books I am focusing on acquiring at the moment.
Again, thanks for the discussion.
Take care, Mike
Hmm, all good thoughts to ponder.
I thank everyone for the discussion. Helps me think through things better.
As a side note, my grandfather taught me to use a heavy twine around large carcass assemblies, a stick to wind the tension much like a bowsaw. He learned cabinet making from his father and grandfather, so that puts his tradition back to pre-civil war. Other than in the last decade of his life, I don't recall my grandfather ever owning clamps.
On large assemblies--in fact the credenza assmebly in my kitchen this very minute--I use ratcheting strap tie-downs. A little easier than getting good twine these days...
For myself, the drawbore is simply an excercise which I may include in future projects. The one at hand is mearly handy. But I do desire to build some early period furniture and so want to practice. The current project I will use them on I would have normally pinned for the look.
Take care, Mike
Mike,
I have some bad news--all the early period furniture has already been built. Ha...ha..hah...
Cheers,
Ray
"I have some bad news--all the early period furniture has already been built. Ha...ha..hah..."Ha ha ha? You're kidding right? I only wish what you wrote was true! And that's nothing to laugh about. There's more 18th c chippendale today then there was 200 years ago.Adam
I only wish what you wrote was true! And that's nothing to laugh about. There's more 18th c chippendale today then there was 200 years ago.
I assume that's from fakes, Adam? Tis a pity.
Most crooks I have met work harder at being dishonest than what it is worth.
Take care, Mike
Fakes are big business. BTW, not to hijack the thread, but a lot of the furniture scholarship is done to increase the value of individual pieces, not purely for academic reasons or "historical value" whatever that is.
For my part, I think it would be fun to do some fakes. IMHO, my joinery and surface work is already there. Creating a forgery would be just a matter of finishing.
And just for Ray's benefit, the restorers I know don't see quite as bright a line between new and old work that we might. They see people changing furniture for 200 years, each adding their own marks and value. One piece has three old legs and one new. Is it still an antique? What if only one leg is antique? Obviously all the surfaces have been gone over, the finishes meddled with etc etc
So Ray was just trying to be funny and it was funny. I do that too. I say I make 18th c furniture, which of course isn't technically correct....or is it?
Adam
Adam,
Well I was kidding; did you see the hah ha ha?? In my opinion, however, a reproduction, or a fake, isn't early, or period. Your calling it "18th century chippendale", doesn't make it so. As momma used to say,"That piece of paper will lay still and let you write whatever you want on it."
The first shop I worked in, a fellow brought in a Phila. highboy for restoration work. He'd just bought it, and wanted it spruced up before putting it in his home. The workman who was assigned the piece pulled the drawers out and pulled the base around to his bench to start working on the loose joints. After a quick look, he called the boss over, "You need to look at this." The ball and claw legs were dowelled onto the ends. The owner of the shop told the workman, "Don't do anything else," and went and called the owner, who promptly came to the shop. Upon being told the piece was a centennial reproduction, he says, "I can't believe Joe sold me this knowing it was a fake. After all, he's a good friend...at least, I THINK he's a friend." My point is, that a guy making $1.50/hr (at the time) saw in 5 minutes what the highly educated owner couldn't.
With few exceptions, a reproduction or fake, can be told pretty readily from the real thing, by someone who has been around the block a time or two. And, yes, I'm aware that new pieces are made every day from old wood, or old ones "restyled", and passed off to the unknowing. The pilgrim chair that the Ford Museum bought years ago is a well-known example. The people who can do work to that level (or are willin to go to those extremes)are few indeed. After all, they are in it for the profit. Many times, I've been called by collectors to look at a piece they are thinking about buying, to give an opinion on authenticity. They are often surprised to find that this or that part has been replaced, as much so, by how I can tell them. The trouble is, collectors often are caught up in the thrill of the find, and see only what they want to see.
I have in my front hall, a beautiful William and Mary game table. If it was as old as it is pretending to be, it'd be worth a small fortune. The fellow who bought it thought he'd gotten a "steal", til he brought it to me to have the top leaf flattened. Now, this thing was made in jolly old England, where making antiques wholesale must be an industry all its own. It looks right. The color inside the aprons is right. The shrinkage of the top and the turned legs is right. Has a lovely faded color, matched veneers, tooled leather on the tops. But the hardware, none of which has been replaced, is all modern, attached with modern screws in their original holes. The top is held in place with modern screws in pockets, with nary a trace of a glueblock, or any sign the top was ever reset to account for all that shrinkage I mentioned above. It is a good fake, but anyone who has his head on straight can see thru the smoke. I bought it from the owner--as a reproduction, at the price a copy would be worth. I like it for what it is.
Regards,
Ray
Adam, just curious are you related to the Cherubini boat builders? Beautiful looking crafts.
Paul T, Manahawkin, NJ
Chris Gouchner has a good discussion of draw-bored MT joints in FWW 132:70; 1998.
Apparently it was often used to make furniture that could be knocked-down to move it in houses where the passage-ways were too narrow, especially in Europe. I built the armoire he shows in the article in a class I took with him at Marc Adams school. It has been loaded as a file cabinet and office cabinet for several years now and has held up well.
Jim Kingshott in his MT DVD suggests that the draw bore ("tree nail" or trenal) be made by riving a piece of wood and then trimming to fit the hole of a dowel cutting plate. He says that by riving you are assured that the grain is in line with the long axis of the dowel.
Thanks for the references, D!
Take care, Mike
For a detailed tutorial on making drawbored M&T with hand tools, see:
http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDocs/Wood_How_To/Smalser_on_Mortise_and_Tenon_I.htm
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