OK, I read the review in April FWW. Now I just want feedback from the real world. I do a fair amount of resawing and will be doing more.
Based on input from other woodworkers, I purchased a Timberwolf 3/4″, 3AS-S blade when I got my Grizzly G0513 back in August. I would qualify it as “OK”, but not outstanding. It plows through 10-12″ stock pretty well, but the result is rougher than I had hoped.
I’ve heard some good reports on the 1/2″ Woodslicer along with the great review in FWW. So, what’s the opinion of this esteemed panel?
Thanks in advance for your help.
Bill Arnold – Custom Woodcrafting
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Replies
I can't give you a direct comparison between Timberwolf & Woodslicer. The only 3TPI resaw blades I've compared the Woodslicer to are the ones that Woodcraft sells and an Olsen that I bought locally. Woodcraft has the Timberwolfs now, but I'm pretty sure whatever I bought from them was before they carried the Timberwolfs. At any rate, IMHO the Woodslicer is a better blade than the others I tried. Once you get a feel for the right feed rate, the cuts are smoother than you might expect for a low TPI blade. Somewhere in the Woodslicer advertising, they make a point about the blade reducing resonant frequencies due to the variable pitch, yada-yada-yada. They're not kidding. I noticed a significant decrease in volume when cutting, compared to the 2 others I tried. I finally managed to smoke my first Woodslicer last summer after cutting curves in quite a bit of Ipe. Prior to that, it had held up pretty well.
Bill, I have the same TW blade and have been impressed by TW blades in general. You could buy the slicer and put it through the paces, compare the two, and let us know how it goes. If it is better (smoother cut), then I would be interested in giving it a try. You willing to take one for the team so to speak?
P.S. Still happy with the Grizz BS?
Edited 1/5/2005 9:55 am ET by bones
Hi Bones,
Yes, I'm very pleased with the G0513. Now that I've gone through a few blade changes, I can do it in about 5 minutes or so.
I can't say that I'm totally displeased with the TW 3/4" 3AS-S I purchased. I guess I expected a little smoother cut than I'm getting. The blade itself is not dead straight at the seam, but is only off a hair so I've been using it as is.
Another blade I have is the 1/2" 6TPI that came on the saw. It is quiet as can be and is fine for rips and smaller resaw work.
Keep in mind that prior to now, I had a 12" Craftsman with 6" vertical capacity and a maximum 1/2" blade so I'm having to go through a bit of a learning curve.
I will probably get the Woodslicer 1/2" about which I've heard such good reports. If I do, I'll be sure to give you guys my impression.
Regards,
Bill Arnold - Custom WoodcraftingClick Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
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I've been using Timberwolf blades purchased directly from Suffolk Machine. They're quite a bit cheaper than going through any of the retailers. Does anyone know of a direct source for the Woodslicer blades?Alan & Lynette Mikkelsen, Mountain View Farm, est. 1934, Gardens & Fine Woodworking, St. Ignatius, MT
Does anyone know of a direct source for the Woodslicer blades?
http://www.tools-for-woodworking.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1293&HS=1
"there's enough for everyone"
Thanks for the reply on source for Woodslicer. I order for Highland and have their catalog, but really hate to pay that much for a bandsaw blade. That's twice what I pay for Timberwolf. For that price, I'll probably keep sanding the saw marks. It's not enough of a problem to double the cost of my blades. Alan & Lynette Mikkelsen, Mountain View Farm, est. 1934, Gardens & Fine Woodworking, St. Ignatius, MT
ya - well...the truck just delivered my new bandsaw as we are enduring an ice storm, so I get to contemplate these same blade quandries myself - -
I talked to an experienced friend about the issue, and my reaction was the the same - '$30!! - that's twice what I pay for bands for my Wood-mizer!' - - he assures me they are worth it...I'm not sure, as if I have much resaw to do, I can do it on the W-M, and I'm thinking that my default blade on the shop saw will be a 3/8" general purpose of some sort...I may ante up for Wood Slicer after I recover, just to see - -
"there's enough for everyone"
Sounds like a lot of you fellows are using your bandsaws for re-sawing, and most have mentioned 3 TPI. I use 2 TPI, on my saw and have to say that I am pretty happy with them. I'm sorry I don't know the brand. My saw is an antique Defiance brand, and I have to have the blades made up to 18' 3". I get them from Memphis Machine. If you are using enough to buy 10 at a time, they give a pretty good discount. It seems like I only pay $18 each. 800-388-4385 is the number for MM.Someone a while back ask how fast they should expect their saw to re-saw 10" oak. I was sawing some last week, and timed it at 1' per 1.5 seconds, but then I have a 7.5 HP motor on that saw. I think that 1 HP per 2" of thickness is about right for a good feed rate. Tannewitz puts a 10 HP motor on their big saw which will cut 22" thickness, and mine only has 16" under the top guide.If you don't have enough power for each tooth to take a large enough chip to take the heat away with it there will be a lot of heat buildup in the kerf which is hard on the bladeI used the same blade to cut some 3/8" thick brass for the hinges that I made for a desk. After cutting about 15 ' it was still in pretty good shape, and it already had a fair amount of time on the saw before I cut the metal.
Bill
In my work, I do a lot of resawing, also. I would recommend you try a 1/2" blade max. for stock up to 12" wide, and 3/8" for stock under 8". This is the formula I use with my resawing, and I found that the reduced width made quite a difference in the smoothness in cut.
Jeff
Thanks for the information. Seems there's a faction that believes in the smaller blades as you do and then the others who insist one must use a wide blade. Bottom line is to use what works.
Another source of support for narrower blades is David Marks on Wood Works. When he's shown resawing veneers, the saw appears to have a 1/2" blade on it. I recently sent an e-mail asking for the specifics of the blade he uses -- still waiting for an answer.
Regards,
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
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Bill
Good luck getting any info out of Marks. He's a terrific craftsman, but want's to get paid for everything. He'll probably want to charge you for the info. He won't even show his watchers the name brands of stuff he uses unless he's getting an endorsement deal. I guess that's the way it works, unfortunately.
Jeff
"Good luck getting any info out of Marks. ..."
J,
I wrote to him recently with a question about the specific finishing process on a piece I'm duplicating. Got an answer a couple of days later; sent a follow-up question and got an answer the same day. Response time will vary greatly depending on his schedule.
Regards,
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
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Bill
You did better than a friend of mine. He emailed wanting to know the mfg. of Tung Oil used on the show, which, by the way, is General Finishes, and the response came back that they were not a sponsor of the show, so no info.
Maybe he, or whoever answers the mail, was just having a wolf cookie day.
Thanks for the info.
Jeff.
While this moves off topic, as indicated on David Mark's website (http://www.djmarks.com/channels/djmfaq.asp), he uses General Finishes products. The Seal-A-Cell is nothing more than an oil/varnish mixture. It contains no real tung oil and the mixture does not deserve to be called "tung oil" any more than Minwax Tung Oil Finish should be called tung oil. Both are almost identical and contain linseed oil, not tung oil.Next, Arm-R-Seal is a thinned varnish. It contains no real tung oil. It's simply varnish thinned with mineral spirits. Forget the gobbly gook Marks says he was told by GF. What oil and urethane become when mixed and heated is varnish. Pure and simple. It's not tung oil. Even the manufacturers does not call either product "tung oil".I wish Marks would clear this up and stop calling his finish tung oil. It causes me to lose respect for him every time he says it.Howie.........
Bill- does your resaw fence lean over the aluminum fence that came with the saw when you apply side pressure? To ALL- do you readjust the fence or the tracking when you change blades to quickly compensate for lead? Also, what do you clean the tires with, have you changed to Cool Blocks and how smooth are the cuts? I'm having a hard time with the concept of totally smooth cuts from a blade that has set at the leading edge and the rest of the blade is tinner. Is the width across the tooth tips on the Wood Slicer blade the same or extremely close to the thickness of the band? Do any of you use anything to keep pressure on the boards being resawn to keep it in contact with the fence, the way a featherboard does?I just bought the G0555/riser block to get the old price (sorry Jeff) and found out about a local guy who makes up blades as needed. I tried the stock blade. 'Nuff said. I had him make a 1/2" 4TPI and a 1/4" 6TPI and tried the 1/2" last night. The back edge is already rounded and I spent a bit of time setting it up. The last fence setting was parallel to the miter slot and I was resawing 6" white oak down to about 1/32" on the OEM fence. Time to make one for resawing. It had saw marks, but I don't expect totally smooth, anyway.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
"do you readjust the fence or the tracking when you change blades to quickly compensate for lead?" I'm one of those who believe that with a properly tuned saw and a quality blade under the correct tension, there shouldn't be any "lead."forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
So, back to another part of my question. How do you know for sure where the leading edge of the blade should go, based on the depth? A 1/4" can't very well be positioned where a 1/2" goes. They're riding on a convex surface and a little forward or back movement makes it lead left or right. Do you mark the tire, measure from the front edge of the wheel or eyeball it? Do you use the tension scale or the flutter method? Considering that the blade will stretch a bit over time, it can lose tension (not that I'm going to flog one blade till I can't breathe anymore). I eyeballed my 1/2" blade and found that it tracked best with the fence parallel to the slot. Do you change blades often or do you use one for almost all of your cutting? I'm already thinking of going with the crank for the blade tensioner. The knob isn't going to do it for me since I have big hands and they don't fit well behind it.
"I cut this piece four times and it's still too short."
"Bill, does your resaw fence lean over the aluminum fence that came with the saw when you apply side pressure? ..."
Of course not. That would defeat the purpose of having a tall fence. It is a very snug fit over the factory fence and has enough contact with it so it does not move. Having the tall fence extend to the point where it just touches the table helps support it as well.
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Most of the published "experts" recommend 1/2" blades for 14" saws. The wider blades are thicker material and tend not to like to ride on the crown of the tires and may have less life due to the smaller diameter of the wheels. Also, there is a question as to whether a 14" saw can exert enough pressure to control the blade accurately. That said, there is an article is a recent FWW that espouses a minimal blade tension. I haven't tried the process yet so I don't have any valid comments about the process.I have found that the cut quality and speed is mostly a factor of tooth design and the number of teeth. Blade depth has little to do with it.Howie.........
"there is a question as to whether a 14" saw can exert enough pressure" That's the main reason I and many others who have 14" home-shop saws like the Timber Wolf blades -- they are engineered to require much less tension than regular carbon blades (35%-50% less according to their info).forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
I had been using Timberwolf blades for about the past three years and thought they were okay, but I never felt they were substantially (if at all) smoother or longer lasting than Olson blades I got locally. I guess I was dissatisfied enough to try a Woodslicer about a year ago and I can not believe the difference in smoothness, length of service, and quietness. They are unquestionably better than any blade that I have ever used. They are expensive, but to me they are well worth it for cutting veneers and resawing. Very smooth.
I always take advice on tools and blades with a grain of salt on this forum because you never really know the amount of experience a poster truly has when they whole heartidly recommend something. I do cut alot of wood with the bandsaw and this is my experience.
I have used both the TW and the Woodslicer. The Woodslicer produces a much smoother cut but seems to cut somewhat slower. I would give the nod to the Woodslicer. However, I generally use a 1/2" 3TPI Lenox blade for resawing. It cuts better than the TW but not quite as well as the Woodslicer. But it cuts faster and lasts longer.
"I have used both the TW and the Woodslicer. The Woodslicer produces a much smoother cut but seems to cut somewhat slower. I would give the nod to the Woodslicer. However, I generally use a 1/2" 3TPI Lenox blade for resawing. It cuts better than the TW but not quite as well as the Woodslicer. But it cuts faster and lasts longer.
Howie........."
Howie,
Is your Lenox blade the one with carbide-tipped teeth?
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Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
It's the bi-metal.Howie.........
BArnold,
I think it's your bandsaw or your wood and you need to do a bit more adjusting. Yesterday, I finished my new jig for resawing. I did several cuts with an Olson 1/2" 3tpi blade. with some slight adjustments to center the blade on the tire the results greatly improved. On one board I needed to re-plane to ensure it was flat...
What I noticed was when all was in balance the board went through much faster and came out without any cross cut marks...
"I think it's your bandsaw or your wood and you need to do a bit more adjusting."
BG,
Blade tension is set using the 'flutter' method; tracking is set to center of the tire and then tweaked a hair if necessary to eliminate drift. I use the factory fence for pieces up to about 4" and a tall fence made from MDF for everything else up to the 12" capacity of the saw. I've cut cherry, mahogany, maple and walnut and get the same results on all of them -- saw marks that are rougher than I expected. Two or three passes through the planer cleans them up so it's not like it's a really big deal. I'm looking for a cleaner cut so I can resaw thinner veneers and save some material.
Regards,
Bill Arnold - Custom WoodcraftingClick Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Bill,
You mentioned the 'blade not being straight at the seam'..and I started to think about my experience with my timberwolf blade...it slid on the tire because it was too loose and destroyed the tire as well as the blade. With my other timberwolfs I make them a bit tighter now...and then check to see the blade is perfectly perpendicular to the table and if not make adjustments to both the table and the fense( I put a coulple of wood 'L''s on the back of my fense. Your machine is much bigger than my 14" and is less likely to be effected by tighter blade
Bill, the first thing to do when you have trouble with a Timber Wolf blade is call Timberwolf. Please, give 'em a call and let us know what the tech support says.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Jamie,
I spoke with a tech at Suffolk and he gave me some pointers on checking the blade. The conversation was quite enlightening and I found out that part of the problem may have been one or more teeth that were set a little wide. That problem seems a little better now. I need to call him back tomorrow because the blade is about 0.030" out of alignment checking the backside; it's straight at the weld, but is that much out halfway around.
I'll post another update in a day or two.
Regards,
Bill Arnold - Custom WoodcraftingClick Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Cool, glad you called 'em. I'll bet they'll send you another blade quickly if your's is wacko.("wacko" -- hmmmmm, I must have listened to Car Talk yesterday0forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Iturra sells blades that they don't call woodslicers, but they claim they are identical to the top rated blade in the FWW article, which was the woodslicer. They sell them for about $20, rather than $30, if I recall correctly. You need to call Iturra, rather than ordering on line.
The Iturra catalog, which is free, has an awful lot of useful information in it on bandsaws. Incidentally, Iturra says this blade does cut very smoothly, but they prefer the Lenox bimetal or carbide blades for longevity. They cost more too.
I have the woodslicer from Highland Hardware, and while I've not tried many blades, this one does cut fast and extraordinarily smoothly. Those who don't like it don't contest that -- they say it wears out too quickly, and I have not used mine enough to wear it down.
hi Alan what is Iturra's phone number?making sawdust
"The Iturra catalog, which is free, has an awful lot of useful information in it on bandsaws. Incidentally, Iturra says this blade does cut very smoothly, but they prefer the Lenox bimetal or carbide blades for longevity. They cost more too."
Alan,
Thanks for your response. I have already ordered the Iturra catalog -- they told me the new one is almost ready to ship and will send me one. I've gotten a lot of feedback on the Lenox carbide-tipped blade, but I'm not ready to dish out $150 for one blade -- yet, anyway. I don't mind spending $20-30 for a blade if it will give me the results I want. The TW blade I've been using for most resaw cost $28.
Regards,
Bill Arnold - Custom WoodcraftingClick Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
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Louis Iturra - 888.722.7078
A great resource!
Bill
I live just down the road from Highland and the Woodslicer is the only re-saw I've ever bought or used. A bit pricey but I have no complaint as the cuts are smoother than others I've seen. Does it stay sharper longer than others? Can't say.
I do use a TW 1/4" for general cutting on a 12" Jet I have sitting around. Happy with it in that role, but the Woodslicer is my choice for re-saw.
Regards...
sarge..jt
Proud member of the : "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Bill, take it from CherryJohn..get the Wood Slicer.........you wont be sorry. It cured all my resawing problems
Wicked Decent Woodworks
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
John,
I'm planning to order a Woodslicer when return from a cruise next week. We're headed to Cozumel. I'll be thinking about you while we're away. It's about 8-10 degrees warmer in Cozumel than it is here. Oh, that's right! It's staying around the freeaing mark up your way. Well, darn!
:-)
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
"I'm planning to order a Woodslicer when return from a cruise next week. We're headed to Cozumel."
well la dee daa...............I have it on good authority that they wont have any left when you get back!
Did you see my post in General Discussion......"wow, resawing made easy"?
That blade is nothing short of fantastic for resawing. 4" thick cherry ( what else?) easily cut off pieces that were 1/8 ". I just got mine a week ago and I am amazed at the performance. I plan to take it off and use my 1/4 blade for general sawing just so that the Woodslicer will stay sharp.
BTW...I hope your thong stays put!Wicked Decent Woodworks
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
"... BTW...I hope your thong stays put! ... "
... and if it doesn't???
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Scary thought!Wicked Decent Woodworks
Rochester NH
" If the women dont find you handsome, they should at least find you handy........yessa!"
"Did you see my post in General Discussion......"wow, resawing made easy"? ... '
Yes, thanks for your input as always.
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Bill, I went to a local ww show last fall and came away with a Viking 1/2" 3 tpi blade. Since then I have yet to change the blade. I really like it. Here's what Lee Valley says about them-
"Made in Sweden, the hardened blades will last three to four times longer than stamped or ground blades due to the milling, hardening and quality of the steel. In addition to their fast cut and long life, these blades cut absolutely straight – the body is milled and the teeth are perfectly set, resulting in a straight, smooth cut, regardless of wood thickness. The back of the blade is rounded to assist in making tight radius cuts."
Having used them for all kinds of cuts, I agree with Lee Valley. They track really straight. With other blades, I always seem to be cranking the tension way up on my saw, but these need hardly any tension at all. I won't be buying anything else from now on.
Bill,
I have the Grizz 17" bandsaw.
For resawing, I use a 1" 2-3 VP Lenox blade, this being the only job I use this blade for. It cuts straight and square, with a reasonably clean cut. So far, the widest resaw, was 9" hard maple 1/8" thick, but I believe I should have no problem going below 3/32". I have sliced a few pieces off a 4/4 board, just using the standard Grizzly fence. I tension the hell out of this blade. I need to make a jig, if you have a picture, please post.
All my other blades are Grizzly standard blades, which work well enough for me. So far, I have never adjusted the fence for drift, as it was not necessary.
When I cut boards out of logs, I use a 1" carbon steel grizzly blade and although the weld is not the best, it has done a good job so far.
One always has to finish the area where you have cut with a bandsaw, so whether one has to finish a little more, or less, is kind of irrelevant to me.
"... I need to make a jig, if you have a picture, please post. ..."
Jelly,
I built a simple tall fence with 3/4" MDF. I sized it to straddle the factory fence with a friction fit only, no mechanical fasteners. I attached a photo of it. I leave my fence parallel with the miter slot and adjust for drift with the tracking adjustment.
Regards,
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Bill,
I used Timberwolf blades for a long time and was very happy with them. I still think they are good blades. But then I tried Woodslicer blades and they really are a step up in smoothness. If you push the wood through at the correct speed, there are hardly any discernable cut marks.
I found that the correct speed is to push them through fairly quickly. It's kind of tough to communicate the speed of bandsaw feed rate, but it's a speed that makes you say, "Well, it's definitely not a slow rate, but not quite zooming. But it's closer to zooming that it is to lagging."
Hope that wasn't too confusing!
Bottom line: Woodslicer blades really are nice.
Matthew,
Thank you for your input. Although the Timberwolf blade is working better now that I tuned it a little, I'll probably order a Woodslicer for comparison.
I like your description of the feed rate; it is hard to describe to someone. The best way I can put it is to start off nice and easy then increase speed until you know you're not doing it right. The blade and machine will let you know!
Regards,
Bill Arnold - Custom Woodcrafting Click Here if you're interested in a good,inexpensive website host.
Food for Thought: The Ark was built by amateurs; the Titanic by professionals.
Hi Bill, and Happy New Year. I wrote to you about cherry last Dec. if you remember. I bought a timberwolf blade at the Denver woodworking show and have been using it for resaw. I would say it is very good compared to the Jet that was on my saw when I got it. I have been able to cut 1/16 " strips with amazing consistany. I have wondered about the wood slicer and will probably order one very soon and will let you know how it compares. By the way I got a 16-32 Performax sander a couple of weeks ago and really like it.
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