Replies

1. 
   ackkacilliac | Mar 30, 2009 09:29am | #1

   Hi
   I have a Woodrat.
   I sure wouldn't buy one to do mortises with primarily.
   Wouldn't a dedicated mortiser be a better way to use the money?

   And a better way to cut mortises?

   Ken

1. 
   DonC | Mar 30, 2009 03:41pm | #2

   My horizontal router and spiral upcut bits are used to mortise. All was free. You can see all plans and build kit frm Woodsmith. I believe it was issue 67.

2. 
   flairwoodworks | Mar 30, 2009 04:24pm | #4

   I think you've all answered my question - none of the above. I can't use a mortiser because I need to work towards the center of the boards - none of these three jigs will work. I must have been really tired last night.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)

    - Success is not the key to happiness.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

1. 
   knuts | Mar 30, 2009 04:43pm | #5

   Chris, I'm curious about what you're going to make with mortises in the middle of the boards. Sounds interesting.

   Edited 3/30/2009 9:44 am ET by knuts

1. 
   jhard | Mar 30, 2009 05:47pm | #6

   Unless I misunderstand what you mean, this page shows the FMT created mortises in the middle of boards.http://www.leighjigs.com/fmt_jointoptions.php

1. 
   knuts | Mar 30, 2009 08:33pm | #11

   I thought he might be talking about mortises in the center of a 4X8 sheet. I've mortised 4X4 garden timbers with my Woodrat. And standard cabinet mortises are a no-brainer. Tenons are as fast as you can load 'em. But it won't reach to the center of a full sheet of ply! 

   Even if it could, where would I stand!

2. 
   user-166708 | Mar 31, 2009 03:46am | #14

   I have a woodrat and FMT.  Always use the FMT for mortise and tenons and I can get that "piston fit" with the FMT.

   Bill

    

2. 
   flairwoodworks | Mar 31, 2009 03:42am | #12

   This, for example, is the type of mortising I anticipate doing more of. The mortises here are straight, but I'd like to angle about them 5-10 degrees so it's more stable.
   EDIT: This is the type of work I anticipate needing a mortising jig for. It's looking like it will be shopmade.
   http://forums.taunton.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=fw-knots&msg=46141.2Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
   (soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com) - Success is not the key to happiness.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

   Edited 3/30/2009 8:44 pm by flairwoodworks

1. 
   RalphBarker | Mar 31, 2009 07:18pm | #29

   I'd agree that a shop-made jig may be the better way to go for that style of joint, Chris. Or, perhaps an adapted stand for a bench mortiser. This issue with a jig and a router may be getting enough reach to pierce the seat at the angle you want.

2. 
   daverichards | Mar 30, 2009 05:55pm | #7

   How wide are the boards you're thinking about putting mortises into?

1. 
   flairwoodworks | Mar 31, 2009 03:43am | #13

   Dave, somewhere in the area of 12", +/- about 4". Note that the mortises run width-wise (see my previous post)Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)

    - Success is not the key to happiness.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

1. 
   daverichards | Mar 31, 2009 03:54am | #15

   I just ran out to confirm it but you could put a 3" wide mortise in the center of a 16-1/2" wide board with the Router Boss. I suppose if you wanted a wider one you could turn the work end for end to complete the mortise.

   For mortises such as the ones you did on that need bench, and you wanted to use a router, I think I'd make a template of MDF and clamp it to the board where needed. the template could even be made adjustable if you want.

2. 
   flairwoodworks | Mar 31, 2009 04:28am | #17

   Dave,First of all, thanks for all you're help. I'll extend that thanks to all Knotheads for going out of your way to help other woodworkers.For the jig, I'm imagining some sort of MDF ramp with a cut-out in the middle for the bushing-guided router to follow. I suppose if I hinged it and used a system of wedges, I could make the angle adjustable."For mortises such as the ones you did on that need bench, and you wanted to use a router..."Are you implying that there is another (possibly better) way of doing this? I can't think of much else aside from a chiselChris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)

    - Success is not the key to happiness.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

3. 
   daverichards | Mar 31, 2009 04:37am | #19

   I wasn't suggesting there's a better way than doing it with a router. There are other ways, though. You could drill most of the waste out with a forstner bit and then do clean up with a chisel. I'm not saying it would be better or worse. Just different. Instead of a ramp for the router to ride on, you could tilt the drill press table or put a wedge-shaped table on it. Then rotate the wedge for the opposite end. This assumes your drill press has the clearance to handle the work.

   I think a thin MDF ramped template makes good sense. You can make it large enough so you can get clamps on it. Don't make it too thick or you might have problems getting the drill bit to cut all the way through. You don't want to short chuck the bit.

   Dave

4. 
   knuts | Apr 01, 2009 09:48pm | #30

   Dave (ALL), I was cutting some slots today and suddenly remembered this thread. So I quickly set this up. Yes, the router is turned around. I do that for long reaches; keeps the plate engaged. Anyway I'm able to mortise 9 1/2" from the end @ 5 degs tilt. The support has that UHMV (or whatever) and the board feeds easily.

   View Image

   View Image

   Joe

    

5. 
   daverichards | Apr 01, 2009 09:59pm | #31

   Cool. Thanks for posting that. I'd never thought about turning the router around for cuts like that but it makes sense to do it. I don't know that I ever cut anything that far from the front of the my WoodRat when I had it. Certainly not with the Router Boss, yet.

   Out of curiosity, have you measured the deflection of the plate with the router out there?

6. 
   knuts | Apr 01, 2009 10:45pm | #32

   Boy you're quick...I was still checking mail!

   Deflection is minimal with the plate reversed, but I'm sure you've seen a 1/16" at the limit in it's normal position too. I compensate by measuring from the cutting position anyway. Did you notice my version of Mike Humphrey's miter jig? (speed nuts)? Far better than the store bought version, I think.

7. 
   daverichards | Apr 01, 2009 11:22pm | #33

   Not always fast.

   Yes, that looks like a good jig.

   I need to check my RB and see how much deflection there is with that thick aluminum plate.

8. 
   flairwoodworks | Apr 02, 2009 09:06pm | #34

   Joe,Interesting way of routing an angled mortise. Is that something you came up with yourself, or is it recommended in the manual? Regardless, thanks for posting with the pics.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)

    - Success is not the key to happiness.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

9. 
   knuts | Apr 02, 2009 09:20pm | #35

   Not original; the manual shows using the miter box for angled cuts. Reversing the plate to keep most of it in the tracks is my idea.

3. 
   philip_r | Mar 30, 2009 06:42pm | #8

   Chris, I have had the FMT for 5 years.  I use it when I have to produce a bunch of M&T joints or if the project calls for angled joinery.

   If I'm just doing a few, I just use my regular mortiser and TS.

   The beauty of the FMT is that you can easily do angled and compound angled M&T's... and all of the parts (M&T's) are interchangeable.

   Last year, I did a planting bench that had over 100 M&T's, and the FMT did almost all of them.

4. 
   philip_r | Mar 30, 2009 08:13pm | #10

   Oh, and check out all of the FMT reviews. 

    

   http://www.leighjigs.com/reviews_comments.php

5. 
   WillGeorge | Mar 31, 2009 03:59am | #16

   And then the best Jig is a MDF pattern!

1. 
   flairwoodworks | Mar 31, 2009 04:28am | #18

   I think so. So much for my trying to stimulate the economy. But then again, I am looking at a Felder table saw and a truck.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)

    - Success is not the key to happiness.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

6. 
   Cincinnati | Mar 31, 2009 04:57am | #20

   How wide are the boards? I have a rat. It sure looks like it would cut those mortises. I imagine the RouterBoss will do it too. I'd have to check the specs. Greg••••••• Exo 35:30-35

   Edited 3/30/2009 10:06 pm by Cincinnati

1. 
   daverichards | Mar 31, 2009 05:36am | #21

   Greg, I already answered the question for the Router Boss.

1. 
   Cincinnati | Mar 31, 2009 05:46am | #22

   Oops. Missed your reply. I'm guessing that bench seat is less than 12" wide. Perhaps the OP is looking for justification to purchase a rat or boss, He can use this.Greg

   <!---->•••••••

   Exo 35:30-35<!---->

2. 
   daverichards | Mar 31, 2009 05:51am | #23

   I think the mortises also need to be angled through the board to receive the tenons on the legs of a bench.

3. 
   daverichards | Mar 31, 2009 01:53pm | #26

   Greg,  No worries. Just wanted to save you the trouble.

   Dave

   Edited 3/31/2009 6:57 am ET by DaveRichards

2. 
   flairwoodworks | Mar 31, 2009 07:57am | #24

   Greg,The boards are about 8-16" wide. Dave Richards checked his Routerboss and confirmed that it can rout a 3" wide mortise in the center of a 16-1/2" wide board.Edit: Should have read further down to the discussion between you and Dave. The mortises do have to be angled, so I'm looking at building a ramped jig. Thanks.Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com
   (soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com) - Success is not the key to happiness.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

   Edited 3/31/2009 12:59 am by flairwoodworks

1. 
   daverichards | Mar 31, 2009 01:52pm | #25

   Actually the mortise could be wider if off center. ;)

   I was thinking more about your sloped template.  You'll want to have a play with it to see if you can get the cutting depth you need. Consider that the wider the router base, the wider the ramp needs to be and thus the thicker it needs to be. Depending upon the angle of the mortise and thickness of the wood, you may find that you can't get the full depth cut out with a standard bit.

   If you wat to give me some numbers I can figure it out for you. I'd need to know how thick the seat is, the angle and width of mortise (that's the short dimensions) and the width of your router's base. Also the diamter of the bit you plan to use and the diamter of the guide bushing.

2. 
   flairwoodworks | Mar 31, 2009 04:25pm | #27

   Dave,"Actually the mortise could be wider if off center."
   That would be good for people who aren't self-centered!I know that there are some pretty long bits available and I have a collet extender as well. I'd planned to mock-up a ramp, put the router in it, and see how long of a bit I need. It seems easier to me than crunching numbers.I don't have any hard fast numbers, but the seat will be about 1-1/4" thick, the angle 10 degrees max, and the diameter of my router's base 6".Chris @ http://www.flairwoodwork.spaces.live.com(soon to be http://www.flairwoodworks.com)

    - Success is not the key to happiness.  Happiness is the key to success.  If you love what you are doing, you will be successful. - Albert Schweitzer

3. 
   daverichards | Mar 31, 2009 04:51pm | #28

   Alright, I did a very quick sketch to check some dimensions. Since I don't know what bit and guide bush combination you plan to use I did the drawing based on using a flush trim bit instead. Based on those numbers and assuming you need a 1/2" of clearance on the low side of the template hole for the bearing, it looks like you'll need a minimum of 2" of cutting depth. The edge of the router base would almost come down to the bottom of the wedge in this case. Basically I dre a minimum thickness for the template to get the job done. Obviously if you make the template thicker you'll need a longer bit/cutting depth.

   I don't think using a guide bush instead would change anything as long as the bushing is less than 1/2" tall. Since the opening in the template would need to be wider to accomodate the bushing, it might also need to be thicker so that the guide bushing doesn't contact the work.

   It occurred to me while making the sketch that I might be inclined to drill out most of the waste and then clean up with a router with a flush trim bit. This would allow you to make the opening in the template the same size as the mortise. Add a thicker piece to the template after routing as a guide for the chisel when you square up the corners.View Image

   Edited 3/31/2009 9:57 am ET by DaveRichards

2. 
   daverichards | Mar 30, 2009 04:06pm | #3

   I wouldn't buy either the Rat or the Router Boss just for mortises. Actually, for only mortises with a router I'd make a simple jig. If I were looking for a router-based machine and trying to decide between those machines you listed, I would choose the Router Boss. You aren't limited to mortises and tenons and between the Rat and the Boss, I think the Boss is the better machine.

3. 
   WillGeorge | Mar 30, 2009 07:08pm | #9

   FMT.. I have one. I use it.. Not sure it is the perfect solution. ALL the joints are WAY MORE THAN JUST USEABLE. However, I have never got that 'piston fit' you hear in the LEIGH video.. ;>)

   Tenon to Mortise Width is perfect! Tenon to Mortise Length.. I never could find a way to make it 'perfect'.

   And I HAVE used my FMT on LONGGGGGGG sticks.. OK, SO I had to make something to hold it up there in the sky... I'd think, RouterBoss or WoodRat would be harder to do that...

   Just me though.. I have no problem doing strange things...

   
   

   ---

   Edited 3/30/2009 12:09 pm by WillGeorge