I have purchased some 1′ long folding legs for a table that I want to make for my daughter. The table will be small and will be close to the ground for her to play cards, etc with friends. It will also fold up under her bed when she is not using it. My older daughter received one of these from Pottery Barn for Kids for Christmas but I looked at it and figured I could just build one for my youngest daughter at a fraction of the cost.
The dimensions of the top will only be 2’X3′ so I was thinking a sturdy piece of plywood may do the trick rather than joining boards for such a small table. I do want to be able to router the edges with a roundover bit so there are no sharp edges. I also want to varnish or lacquer the table after routering. Any suggestions out there on what may be the best material for this small table? I think I want at least a 3/4″ top. Thanks.
Regards,
Buzzsaw
Replies
Baltic birch plywood, which has around thirteen plies in the 3/4 inch thickness would be perfect for this. Lately it has been turning up in Home Depots cut to 2' by 4' sheets. Buying a full sheet would be expensive for the small amount you need, but it has lots of uses. Check that the sheet doesn't have a twist in it before you buy.
John W.
John,
Does the baltic birch plywood have a lot of tearout when cutting. I seem to remember cutting some once (maybe it wasn't baltic birch) for a crosscut sled and experienced a lot of tearout. I did happen to use a circular saw at the time though and possibly the blade wasn't sharp...Regards,
Buzzsaw
A hand held circular saw would cause tear out in any type of plywood. There are a lot of tricks to reduce tear out, but the best way to go is to start with a plywood cutting blade in a well tuned tablesaw.
John W.
If that 13 ply stuff at your local HD is the same as the 13 ply at mine, it's not Baltic birch.
Look closely at the edges, there are a great deal of voids/overlaps in the plies, and the face veneers are almost microscopically thin. They are selling full sheets (from time to time) of the stuff for under $30.
Real Baltic, last I checked, was about $45/sheet (5'x5'), but that was probably about a year ago. You get what you pay for!
Not to say the HD stuff is garbage, well maybe it is garbage, but it is useful in some applications.
I stand corrected. I know that the HD stuff wasn't true Baltic birch and is definitely of lower quality. I was incorrectly using the term as a generic description. The last time I bought some it was made in China, Sino birch might be the correct term.
John W.
Buzz,
Let me suggest what not to do....
Recycle some pine 4x4....cut into strips and joint for your 2x3' table top.....plane..round over the edges....maybe a little shellac....
that soft pine will capture marks left by your daughter...and then your wife won't let you throw it out because, because, because....so don't do that, okay.
I agree with the BB ply suggestions. Your experience with tearout was undoubtedly the fault of the saw, not the ply. I've made several accessories for the shop with BBply, and have experienced no tearout whatsoever.
You could attach solid-wood edging for your roundover if you want to dress it up a bit. The BB ply will be very stable, and should accomodate the edging easily.
forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)
Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
ForestGirl,
Do you think the new blade that I purchased (the one you suggested for hardwood, I forget the name) should work fine with the Birch plywood or should I go purchase a blade just for plywood? Thanks...Regards,
Buzzsaw
Hi Buzz, sorry I can't remember which blade we talked about -- old age I guess -- and the darned search engine isn't helping. Can you get the model# off the blade and LMK?forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Hi FG,
I bought the blade referenced in your post below.
Here is the post:
"What is the recommended tooth amount for ripping hardwood?" -- depends on how thick the wood is, but definitely less than 60, unless you're ripping really thin stuff. Home Depot carries the Diablo line of Freud blades. Get thyself the rip-blade. It's a 24-tooth ATB blade with a 15* hook. Works great, you'll love it, and it's easy on the pocketbook.Regards,
Buzzsaw
I'm rushing to close the store right now, so no details, but nope, I'd not use the rip blade for cutting nice ply. You need a high tooth count and maybe different configuration. Late this eve, I'll get a model number for ya.
Tally ho!forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Buzzsaw, I have the Freud LU84M, their combination blade. It's the one I used with thicker plywood if I want a nice finish on the cut (I don't have a specialized plywood blade). It's a 50-tooth blade with 4 ATB (alternate top bevel) teeth and 1 flat top per set. I can't find the brochure that lists the Diablo line, but I suspect there's a similar blade in that.
I have an 80-tooth blade that I use for thin ply, but that's not what you want for this project.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Thanks for everyone's input. I really appreciate it...Regards,
Buzzsaw
PS (she wakes up the next day): That combo blade will do a number of different chores for you. Happy Weekend.forestgirl -- you can take the girl out of the forest, but you can't take the forest out of the girl ;-)Another proud member of the "I Rocked With ToolDoc Club" .... :>)
Buzz',
I'll jump in on this one - whichever blade is used (a 30-40 tooth blade is optimum), a trick to prevent tear out in plywood is by laying a single layer of blue painter's tape over the cut line (the blade should run right down the middle of the tape). (Tape goes on the bottom face side.) Run another length of tape parallel to the first so that the ply' is cut with a perfect 90 degree edge.
For the best results, a zero clearance table saw insert should be used.
Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
Thanks Dan for the input. Now I have to go find this 'blue painter's tape'. Thanks...Regards,
Buzzsaw
It's in the big box in the paint section. They have TONS of it.
Ian's suggestion is a really good one. Contact cement some laminate on a piece of perfectly square 3/4 plywood (there are plenty of great color laminates that would match the colors of your daughter's room or bedspread, drapes, etc). Then fancy it up by attaching some nice hardwood trim, mitering it at the corners. Use glue and biscuits (or Kreg jig pocket screws on the underside) to attach the hardwood. Put on a nice ogee edge or a round over and you will have a great table that will withstand any pounding from Hello Kitty or Barbie.
Bob
Edited 3/26/2004 5:59 pm ET by Robbie
Any need really for the biscuits? Wouldn't glue be enough to attach the hardwood edging? I was pretty much going to just make a frame (45 degree mitered corners) out of oak around the plywood panel and edge glue. Regards,
Buzzsaw
As the others have already said - the home centers are the place to go (paint aisle). The 3/4" or 1" wide tape is the way to go.
The blue tape is also great for attaching solid wood banding (in lieu of clamps) to plywood. A 4"-5" piece every few inches, and you are good to go!Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
Dan,
I bought the tape. I guess I'm a little confused as to what you are suggesting. I'm not putting the tape on the top where I can see it when I cut, but on the bottom of the plywood? Thanks...
Regards,
Buzzsaw
I put it all the way around, but then I generall only use the "line" to set the fence or set the panel in a crosscut sled. Once that's set I just let the fence keep it on line.
That said, my work doesn't even compare with the stuff posted here.
Since it's middle of the US working day, I'll jump in.
Put it on the side of the board where the blade is exiting from on the cut. On a tablesaw that's the underside.
What it does is 'tapes' the fibres down so that the saw blade doesn't rip them out as it exits the cut/kerf. This is especially important.
At home, I have a small saw with a scribing blade, but at work, we have a larger saw with no scribing blade and a blunt blade with teeth missing (and no, the boss doesn't want to change it.)
So, I've gone through a roll of masking tape ripping down panels.
[By the way, you only need the tape on cross cuts, on rip cuts (parallel to the veneer grain), you don't need it.]
Cheers,
eddie
edit: I went through posts again - I assume you have a tablesaw but I can't see it stated anywhere. If you're using a hand-held circ saw, the tape goes on the upper side of the panel - as I said, whichever side the blade's exiting from on the cut
Edited 3/29/2004 3:38 pm ET by eddie (aust)
Eddie,
I actually have a table saw and a circular saw. Since my crosscut sled will not hold a panel this large I may just use my circular saw with a guide or I may build a new corsscut sled that can hold a larger panel. Just to be safe I could put the tape on both sides. Hey, I've got a new full roll. Thanks for your help.Regards,
Buzzsaw
I believe the magic words are OH&S.
You shouldn't be using a blunt blade with missing teeth and if the boss doesn't know this he is more of a fool than my sister's boss and that would be some achievement !
I see nothing for it but to send the HSC kids home.
On cutting ply with a circular saw, I've had good success with a 9-1/4in 80 tooth blade with no need for tape.
Ian
Ian,
I'm transferred in a fortnight but filling in for the boss next week - it might just magically disappear and return sharpened/retoothed for him.
Nae dramas - under control
Cheers,
eddie
Edited 3/30/2004 2:44 pm ET by eddie (aust)
Buzz',
Pencil mark a cut line on the bottom side of the plywood (the side that will be face down on the table saw). Run a length of blue tape right down the line, (see enclosed graphic) with the line running down the middle of the tape. (After you've made your cut, you should come away with two pieces of plywood with a length of tape on each.)
Run a second piece of tape parallel to the first (see graphic) to ensure a perfect 90 degree cut.
Let me know if you have any questions, and how it turns out!
Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
Edited 3/30/2004 12:13 am ET by Jackie Chan
Thank you Dan,
I may use a circular saw though due to the size of the panel. Someone else stated that if this is the case I should put the tape on the top of the panel due to the fact that the blade exits the wood differently with the circular saw. Do you concur? Thanks.Regards,
Buzzsaw
"...I should put the tape on the top of the panel..."
Buzz',
Yes - when using a circular saw the tape should go on the top of the plywood. You might consider running a single layer of tape on the top and bottom.
You can create a zero clearance base plate for your circular saw by using a scrap piece of hardboard or thin plywood with some carpet tape. This can give you the same benefits as when using a zero clearance insert on the table saw. It's easy to do. Cut a piece of hardboard to slightly larger than the circ. saw's base plate. Raise the saw blade up so that it doesn't project through the bottom. Run some strips of carpet tape on the hardboard, and stick it onto the bottom of the saw. Carefully with the saw sitting on a scrap piece of plywood, retract the blade guard, and plunge the blade through the new sub base. This isn't something that needs to be done, it's just an alternative to the tape method.
If you have any questions, please feel free to ask!Dan Kornfeld, Owner/President - Odyssey Wood Design, Inc.
Thanks Dan,
I appreciate all of your experience and advice. This forum cannot be beat! Regards,
Buzzsaw
Check out the link below it has a good setup for cutting plywood.
http://www.woodworkingtips.com/woodtips/wstip14.htmlScott C. Frankland
Scott's WOODWORKING Website"He who has the most tools may not win the race of life but he will sure make his wife look like a good catch when she goes to move on."
Thank you Scott, I appreciate the link.Regards,
Buzzsaw
I did use the 13 ply HD garbage for almost exactly the same thing you are looking to do. I edge banded the plywood with 3/4"x3/4" red oak, and rounded it. Finished with untinted Watco, and it came out ok.
It was also a table for my kids, and has suffered some abuse, but is holding up fine. I don't have folding legs, though.
Careful sanding, though. You will burn through those face veneers quick.
TXJon,
I like your idea and picked up the Birch ply and some 3/4" Red Oak for the edge. Did you simply glue the oak to the edge of the plywood? Did you then sand before applying the untinted Watco? I'm hoping to get the joints flush enough to avert the sanding process. I'm a little concerned about sanding this stuff as I know it will easily show through to the layer beneath. I'm also not familiar with Watco. Can you describe it?Regards,
Buzzsaw
It's been a while, and to tell the truth, I don't remember how I attached the edge banding. Probably I just glued it, although there may be a biscuit or two in there also.
Make sure the corners are square and your mitre cuts accurate. The 3/4" oak is thicker than the ply, so try to keep the top edge flush. Your going to need to do some sanding no matter what, though.
As far as the Watco, do a search on this site, you will get more than you ever wanted to know about it. I used it because it provides adequate protection, is easy to repair, and my kids beat the hell out of everything anyway!
Last I looked, HD was even carrying it.
TXJon,
I finished the table for my daughter and I will take a picture of it tonight and post. I used Baltic Birch plywood for the table and I banded with 1X2 oak. I sanded and routered, burned my daughter's name into the plywood with a $10 burning tool from Wal-Mart, and wiped on 5 coats of MinWax Wipe-On Poly. I had bought some 1 foot long folding legs from a place called Midgett and affixed them to the bottom of the table. When folded, the table will fit out of the way under her bed. I'm going to surprise her tonight with it since she has been on vacation for the last two weeks without Dad since he had to work...Regards,
Buzzsaw
I vote for 1" pine if you can find any. It is nicer to the touch. I have been using melamine framed with poplar. There are a number of articles in FWW on edge banding.
Buzz
who stole the design ?
my son's folding table is made of 3/4in 7 ply with white plastic laminate glued to the top. The edge was rounded over after the laminate with applied. All up the table is about 2 ft by 1ft 6in. All timber is finished with a brushed on varnish.
This table lives in the kitchen and is his table where all activities occur including some meals. The plastic laminate sure makes cleaning the surface easy.
Ian
Ian,
Did you router for the roundover and how does the router behave on the laminate? Thanks. Also, what did you use to cut the laminate?
Regards,
Buzzsaw
Buzz
sorry it's taken a day or so to get back.
I rounded the edges with a 1/4 bearing guided round over bit – instead of being a true bull nose the edge has a small flat on it. As to cutting the laminate I just scored and snapped – the slightly rough edge was cleaned up when I rounded the edge over.
Ian
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